Just sift your perlite before mixing. You don't want to include the dust. Perlite is high in fluoride which can supposedly be harmful to some plants. Including the dust portion drastically increases the perlite surface area which increases the rate of dissolution, and thus the amount of fluoride in your mix. Try to find coarse perlite if you can, but you will still want to sift out the dust.

As for the pine fines, your lime use sounds fine to me. The 5-1-1 mix is mostly pine fines, and 1 Tbs/gal is the recommended amount there.

Thank you for the fast answer!

Its too bad the MG perlite is dusty like that. I made a small batch with perlite unsifted so I hope its ok. I might have to go and get a 2 cu ft bag of course perlite.

Pen's right. Sift out that dust.

Hydro shops usually carry the big bags of coarse Perlite.
I buy Sunshine brand perlite in a 4 cubic foot bag for $21.

Josh

4 cu ft for $21!!!!! same brand and its $35-40 here?!?!?
I can get 1.75cu ft for $20 :( I have a local hydro shop but its not the best. I can only get dyna gro grow there no FP!!!!:(

So, you really think I cant use the finer perlite from MG?

I found I have almost enough for my needs so I would like to not have to get anymore perlite.

If I leave out the peat will it be ok if I wash the perlite and sift it?

Thanks for the info.

After looking into the expensive mediums out there I am glad I know of the 5-1-1.

Yes, you can leave out the peat.
But, again, you want to replace the peat with something that will accomplish the same goal.
I've used Turface, Pumice, and extra bark dust to increase moisture retention in several mixes.

You want to begin thinking more about the principles behind the use of an ingredient,
rather than focusing on an ingredient in particular. Ask yourself, What does the ingredient accomplish?
And then, How can I achieve that with the ingredients at my disposal?

Josh

Ok thanks Josh. The reason I ask is more or less my fault. I dont in fact have pine fines in the 1/8-1/4" range but in the 1/8-1/2" and I know thats not the best. I here of people using the 5-1-1 and have perched water problem and I think its because of improper partical size and range. Having particals up to 1/2" makes me look at the 1/8 and possablily 1/16" pine fines as my "fine" particals. If I exclude the peat will I just water more?

I also must say my pine fines are not dark and they are not aged very long. This is another reason I get the perched water at the bottum of the pot when I tryed using peat, that is really why I don't want to use peat. I don't want any fine particals.

So maybe pumice like you said sounds very good.

Thanks again.

That bark size should work for the 5-1-1.
The 5-1-1 allows for a greater range of particle size - 1/8 to 1/2 inch.

The tighter range - 1/8 to 1/4 inch - is for the Gritty Mix, where perched water
is specifically avoided.

Josh

Thanks. I feel better about the fines I have now. I have to note I had a pot filled with 5-1-1 and the same sized pot 1/4 filled with peat perlite mix. I saturated both mix's with water and let drain. The 5-1-1 weighed as much as the peat/perlite mix and there was 4x as much mix in the 5-1-1!!

I'm new to this whole idea, but it sure seems to me that the perfect retention level in your mix will be heavily dependent on your location and availablity to provide water. It's already in the upper 70's here with lows in the mid 60's, I don't want to water 2 or 3 times a day when it's 95, I couldn't even if I wanted to, once a day is all I've got in me. I didn't screen my bark (I thought it was pretty nice stuff right out of the bag) or my course perlite (very little dust) with the intention of leaving a little extra retention in my mix. I ran some tests before I planted in it, i.e. gave different sized pots a good watering, set the pots in their final location for a day and a night, dug it up to the bottom. 2-3 gal pots weren't soggy at all, still nice and damp, like a squeezed out rag. The 5 gal pots held onto water for 2 days before losing that damp rag feel, and the 10 gal were pretty good even for 3 days down in the middle. Like I said, I'm new to "perched water", I was expecting to find it really wet at the bottom, but it wasn't soggy at all even with everything being unscreened. But then again my weather right now is like July or August for many of you. Josh said "You want to begin thinking more about the principles behind the use of an ingredient, rather than focusing on an ingredient in particular.". To me this means that the 5-1-1 isn't perfect, as is, for everyone, everywhere....its a customizable base for everyone, everywhere. I think that, for me, as I grow as a gardener, my mix will get better and better. But I'm going to have to do that through eductation and practical application rather than a following a recipe. That's my take on it anyways, we'll see how it goes.../crossmyfingers

You nailed it, DaMonkey.

As Al says, he's promoting a "concept" rather than an exact recipe.
It just so happens that the ingredients he mentions are excellent at providing the
drainage, aeration, moisture retention, and structure that plants' roots love.

The beauty of both the 5-1-1 and the Gritty Mix is that they're supremely adaptable
with only some minor tinkering. A word of caution to others: these mixes do hold a
proper amount of moisture, and if you modify the recipe thinking that you are going to
need extra moisture, you may very well end up with too much moisture retention.

Josh

I just don't think 1/16-1/2" range is ok, thats what I am using now and there is quite a bad water table at the bottom of the pots. I think 1/8-1/4" is best. Not sure if I will try the 5-1-1 in my outdoor garden untill I can find 1/8-1/4" size pine fines. Thanks.

MG,
are you allowing for the Summer temperatures and the plant that will be drawing moisture from the mix?

Josh

Very true, I only used it for low light house plants, if you say that range is fine I will try it then. I see the many results I just hope I have the right stuff. I am worried my pine fines are not aged either as they are very red-brown rather then black.

Thanks.