Yes, Roberta, it was reg upon reg, for better or worse, that eventually forced my parents out of their farming livelihood. At middle age, with no formal education they were forced to find city jobs (or move and rebuild the barn etc. etc. etc.). Unfortunately, their story is not unique. I'd love to see a documentary of the saga during this era - but the window is closing. I do have one question related to your comment though, before this thread folds completely. Our pullets aren't laying yet - though one of them jumps into the raised nest box and stirs it up good daily, so it shouldn't be too far off. Our ducks ARE laying however - but their nest box isn't so clean. I'm wondering if the tidy habits chickens keep goes for ducks also...If so, perhaps one of the drakes or the pullets are messing in it. It's ground level and doesn't belong to the pullets (paybacks?). Anyway, I have to tidy it up for them each morning. -lf

I grow Charles de Mills also. Mine is three years old. It's approximately 4.5 feet tall. Its width is at the base 2 feet; above amongst the foliate about the same as the height. This rose yearly sends up additional stems so eventually I expect it to get quite wide. The spring flush last spring was amazing. Fragrance is up there also. Gallica folliage is well rough looking I would say. So a centerpiece might not work. Marchessa Bocella...I actually have this one planted next to Charles..on the other side of Marchessa is Tuscany Supberb. I left 3 feet between them but I'm beginning to think that might not be enough. Marchessa is upright and slim for me. Her blooms real nice. She repeat blooms all season. Needs alot of Horse Manure to bloom continuously. I may have to move her as there may be a space issue which is too bad as this is a nice looking area. Maybe I can just move her forward. I'm using dusty miller across the front now. Lt. grey fuzzy foliage. Baronne Prevost was only added last spring so too soon to tell however last fall was LaNina here...oodles of rain...he got some black spot. Not enough to defoliate or slow growth but it did happen. That's all I know. Jeannie

We are getting off the topic, but I remember the lush yard of my childhood w/ all the clover and watching the honeybees, and the exciting days when we would take the honey out of the hives... I planted clover and I wish all the weedy grass would go away! (No neighbors are going to care here as our lots are set in the middle of woods, and we are out in the country.) My clover has had a tough time (doesn't like sand?), but there is one low-growing weed that I am encouraging as it does not need to be mowed. No mowing is my goal. As for my clems (many of which you all enabled!), they are doing fairly well. I was most impressed w/ Arabella- the best bloomer! I have mostly watered from my rain barrels this summer and it is not very satisfactory because the sand soaks up the moisture so fast (great for watering pots and small areas though). I too have to figure out where to plant the ones I stuck in pots in the spring. Most are going into the rose garden (if the roses don't make it maybe the clems will). I have planted several to climb up my deck railings. I know there is a lot of controversy about adding soil amendments, but I am with the other readers who see the fence as a prime planting ground. Maybe someone who knows more about amendments could help out? I wish you the best of luck in finding them a good place, and would appreciate it if you will wish me luck as well. Thanks, Brandy

Thanks nosoccermom. I will definitely ask about that. Today I measure to see how many of which length I will need. Then pop them off an email and hope that they will work with me. I am doing a "face lift" so I am hoping I can justify the cost by explaining to myself that I am not buying cabinets. Plus, the beauty of the things should draw the eye away from the dang arch on the cabinet doors.