How to place outlets within 24" of a sink (with dishwashers)
John H
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Dishwasher location not next to sink - any one??
Comments (10)Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I've been lurking on these boards for months and this is my first post so all comments are appreciated. I will try to post the layout as we envision it as soon as I figure out how to do so. To answer the questions raised so far: @Angie DIY - we believe there is room in the bump-out for the water supply/drainage. @Katesouros - unfortunately we can't put the DW across from the sink - we're really limited in terms of usable space and have some constraints we just can't move such as a center stairwell that makes up on wall of the kitchen - that would be a great idea though! @Mbarstow - we are thinking of a corner sink as well - any other configurations really limit our counter space which is one of the biggest issues with the current layout - the corner where the sink will be is on one side of the bump-out and the DW would be on the other side....See MoreElectrical Outlet in Kitchen Island: Within 24 inches of sink??
Comments (7)An outlet under the sink for the garbage disposal doesn't count. Usually when an outlet is required by code it has to be within 12" of the counter surface because the a main point of the code for kitchen outlets is to put outlets close enough for short appliance cords to be plugged in without extension cords. The actual statement in code is fairly brief and different localities interpret it differently. Yours may apply the same 24" that they use for sinks on wall counters (which would make sense for the same reason). If you doubt that, you could ask the architect or your GC to contact the local code department to check. We were initially told that the outlets we wanted on the corner of our island under the overhang wouldn't count because outlets under an overhang of more than 12" don't, but that didn't make sense since the outlet would be much less than 12" from the side of the overhang. He checked and the county code guy said it was fine. We put one on a panel in front of our prep sink - the one that could otherwise be a tip out. No change for the storage on the cabinets needed....See MoreDishwasher placement: 36" or 12" from the sink???
Comments (18)My DW is 21 inches from my sink. We didn't redo cabinets & the end of the run after removing the peninsula was the only place for it. We don't rinse dishes, but some always end up in the sink. The drip solution is simple, go from the sink over the counter & down to the DW. I do the same to get to my simple human covered trash can that sits to the right of the DW. Counter is easy to see & wipe up drips. It depends on what you are going for I guess. Previously I had the DW facing the dining area on the other side of the peninsula & my trashcan was across the kitchen against the only wall, so I am a happy camper! On another note, does anyone know why my name from Houzz is showing when I changed it to something similar to my GW name, when it said my GW name was taken?...See MoreFYI dishwasher & electrical outlet code issue
Comments (17)scrappy, I wanted to wait on talking to the inspector until I understood better what the options (if any) would be. I don't know your experience, but mine, though limited, has been that some inspectors are helpful, some not, and none should ever be "pressed" to answer in advance of having the work ready for inspection. I think "pressing" means asking for an answer when the inspector doesn't know either. The one I spoke with was in between. He read the NEC code section 422 something to me that deals with dishwashers. I had read that when googling and reading forums (I did not tell him) but I knew that did not address my situation. He (the code) said that the DW could plug in with a plug wire that was not less than 3' nor more than 4' running to a switch under the sink. (The switch would be the required disconnect in an accessible location.) Fine, that's the way most are done because most DW are right next to the sink. But then I tried to delicately "press" about the intervening 9" cabinet, because code requires the switch to be in an "adjacent" space. I asked if the wire could run through the 9" cabinet to under the sink, just as the DW discharge would be doing. He sounded defensive and said he would have to look up the code definition of "adjacent". I already knew the code does not define "adjacent". Then he said just hard wire it and put a lock out thingy (that wasn't his word) on the fuse in the main. I decided I'd better stop there, thanked him for his help. So, what I have learned (for my jurisdiction) if the DW is not going to be directly next to the sink: 1) Check first whether your DW will give a choice of plug in or direct wire. (He did say he goes by whatever the manu booklet says). From my researching I believe that going to plug in is already trending and may become standard by the manufacturers. It may become an NEC requirement based on pending NEC revisions for 2017. However, there may need to be additional clarification/resolution on "accessibility". The "accessible with no tools" seems to be an issue for a DW that has retaining screws. The "adjacent" requirement not only needs to be defined but also the running of a "soft wire" through cabinets needs to be clarified. It may be that a DW plug wire running through cabinets does not fall under the prohibition of having soft wires in a wall, which everyone already knows is a no-no. And if it is OK to run the wire through one cabinet wall (which presumably it is since putting the outlet under the sink requires the wire to go through a cabinet wall anyway), why is running it through more than one cabinet wall a problem? (My 9" cabinet would be within the 3'-4' but more intervening cabs could be a problem.) 2) Electrical wiring forums (I googled many) show that there is uncertainty as to both current and pending code for DW wiring when the DW is not directly adjacent to the sink cabinet as well as what "accessible" means for a plug in appliance that is not immediately removable without tools (toaster oven on counter top versus DW with retaining screws). 3) The most practical solutions, with explanations justifying the possible contradictions, on forums is to run the plug to a GFIC outlet under the sink. The less appreciated method is the old fashioned direct wire with the thingy on the circuit breaker in the main box. No one seems enamored with that which may be a reason for the code to be under revision. However, right now at least, that old way would still meet code (in my jurisdiction). 4) I suspect that if I applied for the permit and had the plug run through the 9" cabinet to a GFCI outlet under the sink that it would pass inspection because doing it that way makes sense of the code. Apparently when the code does not define a particular word, then dictionary definitions can be used to supply the meaning. "Adjacent" means "near"; directly adjacent means "right next to". No one would ever have to say "directly adjacent to" if "adjacent to" already means "directly". 5) I may wait a few months to apply for a permit with he hope that the inspector forgets that someone called and pressed him on "adjacent". I think what I am going to do is have the plug run through the 9" cabinet to a GFCI under the sink and also have the holes in the sides of the cabinets have the wire protected with cable management grommets (to prevent any abrasion). I strongly suspect from what I've been reading that through a few cabinet is what is typically done and if this inspector sees it that way he won't think anything about the meaning of "adjacent". As a HO, I want my plug to be in the most likely place - under the sink. If it doesn't pass I'll have it rewired and a thingy place on the circuit breaker....See MoreJohn H
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