Thanks Suzy. It doesn't do it for me. It would probably be okay, but not especially complimentary. I think I will get Huldine. However, I think Marmori would look awesome combined with Niobe. I will have to finda place for them together where there is no coral.

Vaporvac, I'm in Cleveland and also a newbie to roses. The bands I planted last year also threw out several long canes, but they were all Austins and I was thinking that was typical behavior for young roses, and Austins in particular...and I also had planned to support the ones I wanted to grow as climbers and I cut back the one I wanted to grow into a free standing bush form. The flower color, form, and even fragrance of BB reminds me so much of Crown Princess Margareta...I wonder if it has any Austin heritage? Admittedly, I planted BB without really thinking it through. I wanted to grow it, and I thought I had a spot for it, so in the ground she went. I got mine from Heirloom Roses. I want to do something to cover up the wall of the garage, but still need to be able to access it for utility purposes, so training RR and BB to the wall itself isn't really an option, and I'm not sure either would really grow large enough to warrant that.

It's usually good to have the trellis or arch ready to go behind a climber so that when the canes get long enough to reach the structure you don't have the risk of breaking off canes to get it in place. Once you have the structure there, you can encourage the canes horizontally as soon as they reach the structure. I have a climber that I didn't know climbed that's about 2' from the base of the nearby trellis, so I can't try tying the canes horizontally till they've stretched out long enough to reach it (though that means they're horizontal). For you, I'd go ahead and encourage them to fan out as soon as you're able to tie them. If you wait till next year they may get woodier and harder to convince to grow as you'd like them. If you search for Paul Zimmerman online, he has some videos and pictures about training a rose climber that may be helpful. Cynthia

Probably the most accurate way to describe the laterals would be short, medium and long. I don't think a shorter, cooler climate would get the length and warmer, longer one would. Think of the height suggestion issues and you can imagine the lateral length problems. Yes, if budded to multiflora is suitable for your conditions and you would like a Cl Columbia, please contact Steve Singer at Wisconsin Roses. If he gets sufficient requests, he should let me know he wants more material. He's a businessman. He doesn't want to produce plants he has to find homes for (of these things he doesn't normally stock, that is) but he is willing to custom bud to special orders as long as there is a willing source of the material and buyers willing to pony up the money. Yes, pruning, period, is rose type specific. You don't prune Queen Elizabeth the same way you prune an HP, a Tea or any type of climber, so yes, it is rose type specific. Yes, that's Eden and the laterals are different from the Cl Tea and ALmD type. He doesn't need to keep many canes because Eden pushes MANY laterals which crowd each other and would lead to disease and pest issues as well as nasty, balled flowers if not thinned. The other type pushes many feet of layered growth out into space instead of the more upright, stiff growth Eden provides. Eden's foliage is also denser. The space of bare cane between growth buds/leaves is shorter than it is with Teas and climbers like ALmD. You may have leaves every few inches with an Eden type where you may have them every foot, or more, with the others. You don't need as many laterals with dense foliage to protect the bare cane as you do with the long stretches of bare cane per lateral. If you want the plant to remain close to the wall or trellis and be as dense as possible, yes, you reduce the length of the lateral, even if it's only a few inches long. You want that branching of the new laterals to begin as close to the main cane as possible. Otherwise, you will have three or four inches then two, three or so inch long laterals originating at the end of the three to four inch long older lateral. That would likely cause the new flowers to hang and possibly damage the lateral, as well as lead to a very congested mass instead of something resembling more of the Eden or ALmD results in the photos. Will you kill the plant if you don't do it? Nope. Will you lose the war for the Allies? Nope. Can you fix what you didn't do the previous pruning season, later? Very likely, yes. Might either be a "fatal flaw" if you do or don't do it? Nope. Feel free to experiment and leave some if you want just so you can see the effects and decide whether it's easier or more pleasing either way. In my opinion and to my lazy style of gardening, yes, lower density planting works better. But, I likely have quite a few more miles on me than you and I am likely far lazier than you are at this stage of life. I tired of being grabbed and ripped from the sides and behind by competing rose bushes LONG ago. I mean to the point where I limit the really prickly types in my yard and fawn over the smooth types. I favor the prickle-free seedlings over the prickly ones, too. Plus, spider mites, I believe, originated here on the Central Coast. They were listed as being one of the major farming issues over a century and a half ago when the first farmers broke ground. And, they are EVERYWHERE, ALL the time. The ocean breeze is nearly continuous and it doesn't matter how frequently you hose the plants out, they're just as bad the next day as if you hadn't done anything. Dense planting is precisely what they adore. Add that California is BUILT upon one, giant ant hill and all the insects the ants love to farm and dense planting creates many undesirable problems I simply wish not to have to deal with.