This is a very interesting and timely (for me) thread, as I've only recently become interested in cooking dried beans. They've just never been a big part of my meal planning. I just used canned or frozen beans occasionally.

But something I read in the last couple of years sparked my interest in Royal Coronas. Plus both my Ophthalmologist and my Retina specialist are telling me to eat lots of dark leafy greens, coupled with a low sodium diet. .. . . . . Well, you can see where this is going.

I've been doing a little 'experimenting' with "beans & greens" type dishes and have come up with one I really like. Sooo late last fall I placed an order with Rancho Gordo (no Royal Coronas available anywhere around here). Got four or five different varieties to try.

So far the Royal Coronas, while certainly impressive in size, are disappointing (to me) in flavor. I prefer both the flavor and the texture of the California Coronas. I think I just need to find another use for the Royal Coronas. The Snowcaps are pretty good, too, a flavor remarkably similar to mashed potatoes.

There are a number of varieties I'm anxious to try but not until I use up this order. I wish they offered sample packs in smaller amounts, like maybe one cup packages. A full pound of dried beans is a lot of beans for one person to use.

I've used both the Instant Pot and on the stove method of cooking. I think a long slow simmer on the stove develops a much better flavor than the quicker pressure cooking.

Rusty

Just a little reminder to everyone, Instant Pot also slow cooks. In this thread, it seems to be reserved to only for pressure cooking... I have the Breville version, and use it far more for slow cooking than fast. Including, making cowboy beans and taking it to the barbecue to plug in on keep warm on the buffet.

Rusty, the great thing about dry beans is that they keep! You can also freeze most bean preparations. That gives you more variety for less effort, and allows you to try something new before it's all gone. If the beans were firm, they might soften a little as they thaw, but I've never had soft beans go softer (one assumes the firmness fibers were aleady broken down). Then there's the classic 15 bean soup. You can throw all your last bits of beans, lentils and even grains, into a pot with water and roots, cook until tender, and add seasonings. Great way to clear the pantry of not-much-es.

Plus, maybe talk to some nearby friends and see if they want to split orders with you.

Most of all, have fun on your new adventure! and if you'd like to share your winning beans and greens recipe, that would be nice, too.

Rusty, you can also blend beans with an immersion blender to use as a thickener in soup. I’ve done this with the Royal Corona because my partner doesn’t care for their size. It’s a good way to use them up.

Mushed beans in soup adds delicious body and flavor. When we make minestrone and add beans (alas, usually canned kidneys), I'll mash half of them with a fork in a bowl and then add the mush into the soup and stir it in.

So I tried the boil degas method, and it helped further. Combined with the overnight soak, we’ve reduced the threat level from strategic air command to localized turbulence. Unfortunately, the beans now taste slightly watered down before seasoning - like they went through basic training and lost some personality. Still, it’s an improvement. At the very least, I may no longer risk launching a full B-52 sortie in a crowded elevator. Now it’s more of a discreet reconnaissance mission.

I'd skip the overnight soak.

Also, take two tablets of Beano when you start eating. They work very well for me- it's a safe enzyme that breaks down the indigestible carbs that cause gas.

Rusty, I second pllog in asking if you want to share your beans and greens recipe that you've come up with - I can picture it being very beautiful ! I love the idea of a sampler of a cup of a few types of beans , that'd make a great gift too. Maybe I'll steal that idea and give my friends a repackaged sampler this year for xmas, make note to self.

Annie, wow your white chili sounds delicious and healthy! Homegrown poblanos and 2 cups of homegrown white cannellini 'hidalgo', what a treat - it must be satisfying to grow your own! You must have quite a garden, it'd be lovely to see a picture of your beans in summer. (maybe they are out there on the gardening threads!) . I bought 5 pounds of hatch chilis in October and roasted on a hot charcoal grill.. I still have a dinner's worth in the freezer for a chile relleno feast soon. (reference to LynnNM on a fun chile relleno thread back then) .

I've tried to grow poblanos repeatedly and only once got a decent sized chili but it was a beauty. I've had bad luck with peppers because of our cool summers but I still try because hope springs eternal :) Ive tried overwintering the pepper plants and showering off the aphids but it hasn't really been successful - maybe I'll try pepperdews this year, they were discussed in another thread and I bought seeds - they're small peppers , so maybe easier to ripen ...

palisades - nice de-escalation of the conflict :)) Wish there were more of that going on in the world.

pllog - good to know about the instant pot also able to slow-cook , I haven't acquired a new appliance in ages but now on top of wanting a sous vide device I might also look into an instant pot - my neighbor loves hers, but she works full time and is a real community activist unlike me who is happy to watch a pot of beans simmer

Elmer, beano enzymes sound effective (we mentioned those above) but real food additions like the epazote mentioned by Feathers are intriguing - and I've always loved fennel seeds, I usually throw those in - any more tips on natural foods to reduce the gas would be interesting. Also, carol suggested bay leaves - I'll be trying that !

Patriciae pointed out the type/family of bean is an important consideration on the pretreat method, that sounded worth exploring. Care to share more about why not bother overnight soak? (e.g., chickpeas take forever for me, maybe I get my hands on old beans, but I do soak those overnight and that definitely helps reduce the cooking time)

Anyway, thanks everybody for a friendly, fun and informative discussion! I've learned a lot

You just reminded me that I prefer my home cooked garbanzos to canned because I like them soft, and the canned ones are too firm for my taste.

I also like my garbanzos soft carol.w. fl. Seeing people crunching through quite hard ones in a salad bowl is offputting to me.

Hm... I like them not hard or crunchy, but not mushy soft. So...medium?

I've waded through the whole thread, and it was helpful to see all the different experiences and recommendation. All the new bean types are fascinating. I do love eating black beans, garbanzos, cannelini, and especially tarbais (a white bean that gets super creamy --- but maybe I just like a good cassoulet).

I recently embarked on a journey to fix some hard beans in a tried and true recipe, but in a new location with new ingredient sources. It was taking five+ hours to cook, and still with crunch to the skins. Was it old beans? Was it the harder water? The acid? I saw the debate over salt (old wives tale vs. science) and the use of baking soda. Next time, I'm trying baking soda in the soaking water and withholding acids in the first hour of cooking.

I also saw the Serious Eats article on reducing gas, where they went to a big effort to de-toot the beans. Nothing was conclusive. To be honest I was rooting for the bay leaf method, as so many traditional bean recipes include bay leaf (and you would have thought ancient folk wisdom would have prevailed). On Sunday, I went in a restaurant that specialized in a local flatbread made entirely of chickpeas (a popular local snack taken in new directions). I will politely say that I experienced some aftereffects.

FWIW, I do believe that the older dried beans are, the harder they are when cooked. I've had some that never softened up, no matter how long they were cooked.

And I don't salt until the beans are cooked through - I learned to tell by fishing one out and blowing on it. If the skin cracks open and peels back a bit, they're pretty much done. For soaking, I take one and break it in half to check if there's any white in the center. Fresh dried beans rehydrate very quickly, IMPE.

Also, it depends on where you live, atmospheric pressure can effect cooking temperature, even cooking with a pressure cooker. If you live in some areas of Colorado, you know what i am talking about.

dcarch

"if you'd like to share your winning beans and greens recipe, that would be nice, too."

"I second pllog in asking if you want to share your beans and greens recipe that you've come up with'

I'm happy to share, but it's so easy and simple I'm not sure it deserves the title of 'recipe'. So here's what I do:

I start with about a half pound of bulk mild Italian sausage in a frying pan. Sometimes I add about half of an onion, chopped, sometimes not. Break the sausage apart as it cooks. When it is no longer showing any pink and the onion (if using) is transparent, add a package of frozen chopped kale and just enough water (or broth if you have it) to keep it from browning. Stir to make sure the meat and kale is all welll mixed. Cover ahd cook over low heat until kale is almost tender. Add a can of beans of your choice, stir, and continue to cook until kale has reached desired tenderness. That's it.

Kale and butter beans are my personal favorites to use, but it's also good with collards, mixed greens or even turnip greens, although I prefer a small amount of bacon in lieu of the Italian sausage with the turnip greens. I've also used almost every kind of canned dried beans available around here, they're all good.

Since I've switched to using 'home cooked' dried beans, I add probably at least half again as many beans as what a can is. And I cook them with no seasoning so it doesn't compete with the flavors of the sausage and greens.

If anyone makes this, or anything similar, I'd love your thoughts.

Rusty

Thanks for sharing that, Rusty. There was a white bean and kale soup in the NYT a few years ago that got some traction by recipe bloggers who put their spin on it. It was very much like yours, but with various additions like grated parm/rosemary/splash of lemon, etc. When I make it, I add sausage, too, for more protein. I do like some rosemary, and maybe some parm. I only use lemon if I go meatless.

No beans, but I guess you could add them.

https://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/green_gumbo/

Gooster, Ooh, tarbais beans, I have some of those that need using (mine are Rancho Gordo brand again, they literally label them 'cassoulet bean' - they're on the larger side) - cassoulet is something we used to do after Christmas back when we cooked goose dinners... now I've got an excuse to buy a duck ! Report back on how the baking soda works out, Kenji Lopez-Alt talked about that in one of his podcasts but I forgot the details ... I like him better on his podcast than his writing, except for his 'wok-hei' essay in the NYT that was a great read. Interesting the serious eats tests were inconclusive - I'll have to look that up

Rusty, thanks for the method about greens and beans, I love the ease of using frozen kale (too many times I have high aspirations but let the fresh greens wilt) and with now you using dried beans have you branched out on varieties ? I had to look up to remember that butter beans are lima beans. Sausage kale and beans, yummm ! and sometimes onions

Feathers, thanks for the ideas on variations, I especially like the lemon idea I often forget to use my lemons and I really love them.

A little on the boring side but one of my favorite beans is the small white navy beans - they cook up nicely and fast -I use carrots, celery onion, sauteed in butter with lots and lots of herbs like thyme, rosemary, finish with cream and a bread crumb parmesan topping and bake at the end (it's a riff on a Greens recipe ) . I could see adding greens to that mix, that would make it a complete meal in one.

Feathers, that soup sounds interesting. I like soup and eat it a lot all year long. Would you share that recipe?

I first heard of

beans & Greens a couple of years ago and looked up a couple of recipes. Wasn't oimpressed at all. In fact, I thought it sounded like a terrible idea. But now a local grocery store has a deli soup called "Zuppa Toscana" and I love it. That's where I got the idea of Italian Sausage with kale, two if my favorite foods complimenting each other without a lot of 'outside interference'. The beans make it a happy healthy threesome.

I think a full pound of the sausage with a package of kale would be even better, but I have to keep the sodium down, which is why I now cook dried beans, I use no salt in them.

The canned butter beans I like so much are actually lima beans, so my next order will include them. I already have the Christmas Limas' on my want list. And maybe some of the cassoulets that were mentioned above. But what else could I do with them? I'm not very apt to be getting a goose or a duck.

Rusty

Rusty, I don’t see the NYT recipe anymore (its cooking search engine is wonky ime) but here’s one that is close:

https://thefirstmess.com/2018/01/03/creamy-white-bean-soup-vegan-recipe/

If I add sausage, I don’t add the lemon. And I use chicken broth. Any white bean will work.

Feathers, that looks so good ! I made a version of my white beans (I had Great Northern - they cooked up nicely within an hour after the boil and soak for an hour method - but also like plain old navy) I used so many carrots, onions and celery that a sweet flavor came through too much and I forgot about the lemon again ! I'll squeeze some into my leftovers.... mine is more of a side dish than soup and my green that I added was escarole, my favorite, because that's what I had in the frig.

Rusty, enjoy your lima bean order ! I just put in my seed order and I'm going to try favas again, another large bean but can be eaten raw. I dream of a beautiful summer salad from the garden, but that's months away. Maybe for a special occasion try a duck, it's such a fabulous combo with the white beans and sausage ala cassoulet.

There's a soup for Asturias Spain that I saw Jose Sndres prepare on his PBS special which looked fantastic ! I haven't found the right ingredients for it but it uses a special kind of bean grown in Asturia (a type of fava bean?) Anyway, it's a fun watch. Oops, that wasn't the video I meant but I'll leave it up anyway..... the one I was thinking of is on HBO Max, episode 5 from 2022 .

Adding a comment, I guess fava beans can be dangerous too, so do some research - I've eaten them raw based on recipes but take care I guess...

I'm sorry, I'm researching the asturian bean more now - it is not a Fava bean, sorry about that ... all I know now is it's hard to find that exact variety using the www - let me know if anybody finds it either to grow or purchase dried . Jose says the skin is almost non-existent !

I am a big fan of Rancho Gordo Beans! the Ayacote Morado beans are good. other big favorites include Royal Corona, Christmas Lima, and Scarlet Runner.

So I just had this article pop up in my feed - can you guess which method for preparing and cooking beans was determined to be the best?

https://www.foodandwine.com/best-way-to-cook-dried-beans-11920208

Fun, haven't read yet so I'll guess... overnight soak (now off to find out how wrong I am :))

I am sorry but that article is not really correct about the fastest cook time using Instant Pot.

Instant Pot pressure at only 10.2 to 11.6 psi, which means 239F to 243F.

Instant Pot MAX pressure at 15 PSI, which means it cooks at 250F.

I would say a Cuckoo pressure cooker which cooks at 26 PSI is the fastest, at temperature 268F.

Note: the PSI numbers above are gauge numbers inside a pressure cooker.

dcarch

So, I get pressure cooking for time, but is it the best choice?

> So I just had this article pop up in my feed - can you guess which method for preparing and > cooking beans was determined to be the best?

I guessed correctly, but they missed the important "follow-up" question to the exercise, which is if there was a difference in how "productive" or "noisy" were the resulting beans.

After chatting with multiple other bean cookers in my area, I've determined there is a common theme (cutting across varieties and sources of means" of tough, long cooking beans. I think it may be the hard water, so I will try the baking soda trick the next time.

I prefer the no soak/stove top method.

To be fair, I think the windy-ness of legumes often can depend on how much sugar is consumed with them...

Feathers, thank you for posting the link to that soup recipe, it looks delicious.

Rusty

The "best" way to cook beans depends on how you like your beans, what your circumstances are and how much time you have. It's all subjective and not objective, so my "best" way might not be yours.

Right now I have dried split peas in the crock pot with onions, carrots, celery and a smoked ham hock. Yeah, I know, the salt, LOL. I didn't soak them and they are cooking on "high", which is a slight boil in my cheap crockpot. It usually takes about 6 hours, so that will be supper.

Annie

I wonder what's going on in that crock pot, annie. Split peas don't take 6 hours to cook, nor even one hour when simmering after reaching the boiling point.

FWIW, split peas or split lentils - and even black eyed peas, for that matter - all cook up soft in around 20 minutes or so without pre-soaking.

And for those who didn't read the link I shared - it was overnight soaking that had the most preferred results.

Annie, that sounds delicious ! I would think the long slow simmer allows the hamhock to be thoroughly infused and the peas become a beautiful velvety puree ? I like your way of saying personal preferences, type of beans, etc mean 'best' is a misnomer at best :))

Carol, I read and enjoyed the article you linked and saw that the overnight soak method was 10/10 for the cannellini beans - I cooked great northern beans the other night using the boil and soak for an hour method which led to inconsistent results just as they said, a few beans remained crunchy, some perfect, and some overly soft. they were still delicious though ! My carrots remained a bit al dente too, so maybe I'm an impatient cook, or get started too late.

lat62, my experience is the opposite - less is more. Too much simmering seems to "bleach out" and reduce the desired flavors of any ham or sausage meat put into legume or other soups.

I think the old fashioned habit of simmering soup all afternoon that the people of my mother's generation and those before are long gone.

Take a look at any modern soup recipe. Most require 90 minutes or less start to finish, including both prep time and cooking time. Some are done in an hour. These are all soups done in a regular pot on a stove, not pressure cookers.

PS - legume prep time excluded. I boil, let it sit for an hour, pour out the water then start cooking. The simmer time is once the ingredients are together and the soup finishes is usually less than an hour for any soup, even non-legume soups.

Elmer, interesting thoughts, thank you. We can agree to disagree about a long slow simmer diminishing flavor, that just doesn't sound right. Anyway, my feeling is that there's no such thing as 'best' just as Annie said, it's about situations and what works. That's why I appreciate everybody's different experiences :)) Earlier you pointed out a Kenji recipe for lentils with gremolata, I've been craving gremolata ever since, it's soooo good - I must get to it this week. Have you made that one yet ?

Thanks everybody, I've learned a lot, like: I'll try adding salt up front to soak; next time I do chickpeas I'll add baking soda; I'll pay more attention to freshness and maybe start dating beans if I put them into jars; I'll soak overnight if I'm organized enough but the boil and soak for an hour still works; I've got several new varieties of beans I'm trying and I'm on the waitlist for the next harvest of Ayocote Morado from Rancho Gordo; lots of methods work and none is 'best' .

if anybody finds out how to buy Asturiana fabada let me know, the ones I've found are like $40 a pound plus shipping, so that's not happening :)) Maybe someday I'll get to Spain

I've looked around. They do go for up to $10 less, but that's before comparing the shipping. Common substitutes are cannellini beans and royal coronas.

i agree with you on what works! But also on the slow simmer. It's just that if you're doing a slow simmer in water, the flavor transfers from the meat and vegetables to the water and whatever else is in it. It could be each other, or it could be the beans. This is the basis of making stock--simmer the heck out of the ingredients and you have empty texture left, which has no value except as additions to the compost, and even for that, they mostly just donate fiber and aren't the best. Generally, for a slow simmered soup, one puts in some flavoring type meat either as stock or bones to flavor the soup, along with the vegetables to be cooked down, then add in meat pieces that are meant to be eaten in the soup at the last hour or so. I don't care for the quick cooked soups. They're more like wet food than a proper soup where all the flavors come to play. Even after a goodly simmer, they often need to cool down and marry before the get to their full selves. The RG Christmas lima and cabbage soup just got better and better in the fridge--mark it with a B!

I haven't tried it, I'd just coincidentally come upon it. Maybe it was a video, I get notices of new ones.

Speaking of modern Kenji soups, here's one you might like (and I will too):

Portuguese Potato and Kale Soup with Sausage. He says it's 45 minutes start to finish because he does some of the prep work after the cooking starts but that includes cooking time. Maybe it is for him with his skills, for me it would maybe be another 10 minutes added to the 10 minutes he includes for prep time. I like to have everything mise en place before I start cooking.

You'll note the soup simmers for about 30 minutes and the sausage is tossed in near the end. No long simmering. I've seen that in modern soup recipes from many sources, which was what triggered my comment to you.

Caldo Verde - Kenji's Portuguese potato and kale soup with sausage

Thanks pllog ! Honestly I don't know if I've fully understood you, but thanks! I love a long slow simmer for some soups, like fresh tomatoes, onions, whole garlic, simmered for hours until it's a syrupy paste, then through the chinois , then into the pot add stock, a little cream, voila - that's my tomato soup recipe ... if I have a red bell pepper, fennel, etc, they can go in too ! Or, skip the soup treatment and put in frozen green beans and simmer and simmer as a lovely side dish everybody loves it. The flavor doesn't disappear from a long simmer , just gets distributed around. But making stock with water, the meat and veg lose their flavor and are discarded... I guess that's what Elmer was saying too, but hamhocks and split peas seem like a transfer of flavor that won't dissipate... maybe I'm overthinking this... Southern cooking is something I have dabbled in, but am no good at. I have the Edna Lewis cookbook based on learning about her from 'Splendid Table' npr show.

Elmer, my friend makes an amazing Caldo Verde over the years, we had it at his house in January, outstanding ! Thank you for the recipe - I don't know his recipe, asking him now... keep in mind with Kenji's current recipes, he has little kids and looks for every shortcut these days - I know this from his podcast :)) I've grown to like him after feeling he was a bit pedantic at first. He has done well carving a food career for himself. I do enjoy his NYT essays.

Thank you so much for sharing that, Annie, it makes me want to get out of my house and get moving :) With a slow-simmering pot of something waiting for me - thinking ahead is an admirable skill I wish I was better at

Also FWIW, I don't soak beans overnight, I sort ,rinse, and soak them early in the day, and after several hours - or by the end of the day - they're ready to cook.

Kenji is now divorced. His videos over the last few years moved from a house (Seattle) to a houseboat (one of the lakes in the Seattle area) and now appear to be shot in the second of two apartments. I suspect he has joint custody of his kids (refers to them often) and that he does his work on days he doesn't have them.

Calling him pedantic saying he's pedantic is fair but that's to be expected because his own orientation (and his years learning the Cooks Illustrated MO) is all about experimenting in numerous iterations to fine tune ingredients, temperatures, handling, etc. to attain the outcomes he wants. His blockbuster "recipe" book is called "The Food Lab - Better Home Cooking Through Science". For each recipe, he exhaustively explores what happens and why before putting his pencil down. The book explains what was done and what resulted.

" I never did understand the reasoning behind the assertion that there is only one "right way" to make or eat something. "

There isn't but if you simmer or boil a piece of meat in water for very long, I've found the flavor disperses and neither the meat pieces nor the liquid have benefitted much. I also never use a crock pot. It all depends on what you want to do and how you want it to come out.

Ham hocks are soft enough to cut after less than an hour of simmering. Pick a day you're not pruning trees or fixing fences and try a shorter process.

Elmer, do you want to rethink that rude comment ? it's okay if you want to edit and remove the rudeness - that's kind of out of line, no?

About Kenji, he's standing on the shoulders of giants, like Harold McGee

I'm sorry to hear his family broke up :(

Regarding cassoulet, the reason , years ago, I disliked Kenji (I like him fine now) is because he has a cassoulet recipe touting chicken thighs instead of duck ... my husband was smitten and he wanted to do Kenji's recipe and I wanted our classic Julia Child with duck. Oh well, that's ancient history.

I hadn't previously heard of McGee. I note he went to Caltech, started in science, finished in humanities. Kenji has two degrees from MIT. Thanks, I'll look into what he's done.

There's little in any field that's ever truly new and revolutionary. The past always motivates and informs the present. It isn't a lack of originality, it's simply how things evolve over time. The places formerly held by some in years past are taken up by fresh newcomers to make their own contributions.

Cassoulet with chicken instead of duck sounds like an easy way to make a delicious dish more approachable for the general public. Julie Child and her recipes were/are brilliant and adhere closely to tradition. Most are impractical to make, or at least are not as approachable as modernized and simplified versions of same.

Oh, I'm glad to turn you on to Harold McGee. Now I must pull his book down and review his info about beans :)) I first heard of him through his interviews with Terry Gross on Fresh Air - well worth a listen! He comes across kindly and very knowledgeable. Let me know if you'd like me to dig up a link for you :) We can all learn from each other through curiosity, interest, and understanding, so go ahead and ask questions ! And show kindness along with sharing your experiences.

I don't mind Kenji wanting to produce an essay arguing for chicken thighs in cassoulet, it's just that I didn't want them that one year, haha ! He tends to be unnecessarily verbose, imo, but as I said I've grown to appreciate him. I admire that he went to MIT, biology major I heard him say in an interview, but didn't know he had 2 degrees! I'm very happy that he found a calling in food science and don't mean to downplay his contributions.

Julia Child is actually very approachable, have you watched her old shows on tv ? Or followed her recipes? (we have a well-used copy Mastering the Art of French cooking, 1965). She's famously down to earth and quintessentially instrumental in making French cooking approachable to the US back in the day. Where do you get that she's impractical? Can you give an example? Just because she doesn't 'dumb down' the recipes? Modernization is a valid point, due to ingredients becoming more available and healthy diet concerns changing, which she frequently acknowledges through the years on her TV shows - in other words, she kept up! Her intellect, kindness and love of life is inspirational and will never be dated, imo. Here's her intro dedication in that book:

Anyway, thanks again to everybody and sorry if I've gotten off track... time to put my beans on to soak !

I always found recipes in Mastering to involve more time and work than I was willing to perform. I gave it away many years ago. With the end result, even if approximate, of more interest to me than adherence to a traditional processes, I've always appreciated recipes with more streamlined and quicker approaches. Some of Kenji's recipes are a bit too much for me. A good example of this is his All American Beef Stew (On Serious Eats). The recipe, inclusive of his prescribed "umami bomb", is teriffic. But too long. When I make it, I review the steps and shorten or cut out ones I think aren't essential. His instructions envision more than one hour's work of active time. Too much for me but it can be done with less.

I've mentioned before, I can't stomach Terry Gross. Not even for a few minutes. I think she's far too immodest and full of herself to be a good interviewer. I'll look for content with Mr McGee that involves others. Thanks for the offer though, I know many like her. Why is beyond me but fine.