I agree with food - they seem a bit too old to correct the way you might a young child - maybe the 14 yr old, but not someone who's 20.

FWIW, every day @ work, the lovely person who calls kids to go home over the walkie talkies says things like 'the Jones triplets is going home', which really grates on my ears, but there's no point in making a stink about it. Sometimes we just have to get over ourselves.

Much too old on the 20 year old! The question is why now? Why didn't you repeat the correct usage the first time through the end of it??? I don't think it's out of a grandparents lane to just repeat back the correct usage. A lecture or making a scene might be. What is a huge error in adults vs children is when an adult says nothing the child/teen takes silence to me approval. We have a ton of confused kids for this very reason. It takes a village and when all the adults don't bother--well here is where we are at.

My father always corrected my kids from a young age, and it became a bit of a family joke. Even when he wasn’t around my daughter would correct herself saying, ”oops sorry Opa!”

That was all fine and good but it upset me when for instance one of them would be telling a story at the dinner table and he’d break in with his corrections. I thought it was much more important that they’d be talking to us and expressing themselves, than to pick apart their grammar at that moment. I snapped at my father pretty hard for that once.

I notice when watching some of the British shows like "Location, Location, Location" that the hosts misuse me and I. Are the usage rules different in Britain?

I have a friend who thinks that "John and I's house" is proper grammar. 🤦🏻‍♀️

It's part of the same overcorrection that leads people to use myself when me is correct.

At this point, are they good kids? Are they doing the right things? Doing well in school?

Responsible?

Try not to let it bother you.

Oh, my, My parents - both with just high school educations - would have stomped that out of us both quickly and young. They were sticklers for correct English. No slang in our house ever either.

I think 20 is too old to not know better, I do find DH mispronouncing words sometimes and while it grates on me - I keep quiet. It is not my place to correct him and he was raised in a household where English was not a first language. And.....otherwise a very good man.

@Fun2BHere, no, the rule is the same in the UK, but as in the US many parents and schools are reluctant to correct children in case their little feelings are hurt. Another more recent British mangling of the language is to use the word ”floor” when they mean ”ground”, as in someone outdoors tripping over and hitting the floor, as opposed to hitting the ground.

" are they good kids? Are they doing the right things? "

This is puzzling to me. Are they doing the right things? No, they're not using correct grammar. 20 is not too old if you have the right relationship with that one.

Look, we're all different. We all do things differently.

Try it.

@colleenoz - I've only heard non-native English speakers saying "floor" instead of "ground." I'm surprised that native English speakers also say that. I always assumed that in the other speakers' native languages there was no differentiation between "floor" and "ground." Obviously, I knew what they were talking about.

Something that seems to be quite common in British English nowadays is saying "I was sat there" rather than "I was sitting there."

Countless books have been written on the countless differences between American and British English. Differences in word usages, indeed differences in words themselves (some we have and they don't and vice-versa), and most certainly grammar differences. Some arise from historical usages that we've changed and they haven't, many others are simply differences of other kinds.

Language changes and old people always moan about it. What is annoying to one generation is accepted by the next. I don't speak like my parents and they didn't speak like theirs. 'Floor' for 'ground' has become widespread here. It's not universal but it's used. 'I was stood' and 'I was sat' started as regional variants but have also become widespread. 'Me and my friend' irks me but my being annoyed isn't going to change inevitable natural language development. Also British English is becoming ever more Americanised, which I dislike, but I'll just have to live with my kids saying 'can I get' when ordering food rather than 'could I have' or 'I'd like' and Google asking me 'did you forget' rather than 'have you forgotten'. They don't mean the same thing and a nuance is lost.

Ps The point about differences in spoken and written language is important.

PPS 'thusly' is tautologous. So I think there's some pot and kettle going on here.

PPPS ' some arise from historical usages that we've changed and they haven't'. And vice versa. When I was growing up 'gotten' had gone from the standard language replaced by 'got'. It was only heard in American films etc. Now 'gotten' is coming back.

"He was sat" "She was stood" I find most annoying. Before he was cast out into the exterior darkness, Prince Andrew used "They were sat" in a speech, almost a worse misdemeanor than his original fault . . .

Over here, and I expect elsewhere in the English speaking world the misuse of can and may is widespread. I remember as a child saying to my father "Can I have an icecream please?" The response was always "Well, you are asking if you are able to have an icecream and not that you would like one."

I think the misuse of 'floor' and 'ground' seemed to have started with sports commentators with the word 'floor' being used to cover all aspects of anyone not standing on one or two feet.

.

I don't have children, so my opinion isn't worth squat.

The example in the OP makes me want to bite something. And yet....I say that you say nothing to them.

I had grandparents who corrected me constantly. My memories of them now, decades after they are gone, are mostly of all those corrections. The best parts about grandparents are supposed to be unconditional love. Let that be your contribution to their lives.

I would say something to their parents. And then I would let it go. And this is coming from someone who finds the example offered annoying as all get out. Will it limit their career opportunities? I don't know. Maybe.

My SO had poor writing skills. I had gently told him that before, he knew it was true. But when he was denied a promotion solely due to that.... he listened. To this day I silently thank his manager at the time for giving him honest feedback. To SO's credit, he worked hard on his writing, and it has paid huge dividends for him.

Grammar still matters in many settings. But I don't know that feedback from grandparents directly to the kids has the intended results. I don't have children, so again what do I know. All I do know is I always wished I had grandparents who were the loving sort. Let mom and dad be the bad guys. As nature intended. 😄

Ally, that is what I was coming here to say as well. I don't have kids either but it seems to me to not be doing them any favors to ignore their bad grammar. They will be judged (right or wrong) when they enter the workforce and it will hold them back from advancing to better positions. In the business world, it is so important to be able to communicate clearly and using bad grammar just looks sloppy and as a manager, I wouldn't tolerate it.

As for mispronouncing a word, I personally appreciate being corrected. I'm not offended. I want to know what is correct.

I think the concern about their job prospects isn't really a valid argument until and unless it actually happens.

Of course you might try being totally honest and when they speak like that to you, tell them that it bothers you - you know: the old 'I' messages, rather than 'you' messages.

One thing I have to remind myself is that if we want behavior to change, it needs to be made easy to do so.

Nag. Nag. Nag. Until they avoid you forever. Problem solved!

/sarcasm

I'm trying to recall if I ever had to correct my kids or grandkids, and the answer is no. I think if the parents speak correctly and the kids are around them all the time, it just happens. My kids didn't go to day care or have a nanny. In almost every instance, I sometimes judge someone, if she says her and me went...There's this famous influencer with a gazillion followers who constantly says Me and Jason did....I hate when people refer to themselves as myself.

He gave this to Joe and myself. Whenever it's you and I or you and me, just drop the other person's name, and it will be apparent.

" I think the misuse of 'floor' and 'ground' seemed to have started with sports commentators with the word 'floor' being used to cover all aspects of anyone not standing on one or two feet"

I watch Premier League matches several times a week (the top level of play in England of they call football, our soccer) and what I hear most frequently from the English broadcast commentators is rather different.

"Go to ground" in various tenses seems to be very common. "He slipped when trying to cut back and went to ground". It sounds odd. I think here, it would be expressed often without any mention of "ground" or "floor", the word "down" sufficing to convey the thought.

" Nag. Nag. Nag. Until they avoid you forever. "

It depends on the relationship and how good the communication is. It's the same issue for parents as for grandparents.

Thanks, all. I appreciate the time you've taken to consider the various aspects here.

I agree that parents and schools *should* correct this.

Well! I got this far when DS called about something else. I brought this up. He said they are aware of the problem, and they do correct the kids. It's fine with him if we correct them too. It's a plan!

I'd hope that DGD's move to HS will help, although several of her grammar school classmates are also enrolled in this very small parochial school. She is the worse 'mangler'. DGS seems to be improving as his world widens.

Thank you again.

What works with my hrandson is to say something like, ”I always have had a terrible time remembering how to…and this is what works best for me.” In your case it would be whether to say ”me” or ”I” and then give the trick of saying it in the singular to decide which is correct. You will then have a context with which you can gently correct.

I agree about people saying ”I’s” as in Joe and ”I’s” marriage. I hear it frequently on TV these days. Who could possibly think ”I’s” is a word?

Who could possibly think ”I’s” is a word?

The folks from Newfoundland. 🛶

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S-bQn9DtgUA

"I think the concern about their job prospects isn't really a valid argument until and unless it actually happens."

The problem is, most folks aren't going to know it's their writing or speaking that didn't land them the job or the promotion -- they just won't be hired. In today's litigious society, honest feedback for job applicants is a rarity. Very few hiring managers are going to tell an applicant I didn't hire you because your writing sample was poor.

Yet, people do get denied opportunities because of it. I can attest to it, at least in my work setting. My manager has told me on more than one occasion that she chose not to interview certain applicants based on the required writing sample they submitted with their applications.

My husband, years ago, was interviewing people for a new position. I asked to read all the letters (this was decades ago) and I picked one and said...this guy. I based it on his creative writing style, grammar and thought processes, and he was hired. He worked for my husband for years and was his most outstanding hire.

Kids today need to remember that both spoken and written words matter in how people perceive them (and that means no slang) .

The OP query was about speech, not writing, and we do not know what these kids' writing is like

" The OP query was about speech, not writing, and we do not know what these kids' writing is like "

I hope you're not suggesting that for each particular individual, these two things are unrelated? I don't believe they are UNrelated.

"I hope you're not suggesting that for each particular individual, these two things are unrelated? I don't believe they are UNrelated."

They are definitely related. Oftentimes, the written word is more formal or "correct" than the spoken word; we often tend to be more casual in speech, but if one has glaringly bad grammar in speech than it's also also likely going to come across loud and clear in one's writing.

Nails on a chalkboard to me? Improper use of seen -- "I seen him yesterday". No, you SAW him yesterday.

porkchop, definitely nails on chalkboard with the ”seen” issue.🥴

Just thinking…something I hear all the time is ”on accident” instead of ”by accident.” Maybe carried over from ”on purpose?” IDK but it always sounds strange to me.

I hate to hear something "needs changed" instead of "needs TO BE changed". When did we stop saying "to be"? It sounds so wrong.

Sigh. I get where you're coming from and I'm glad to see you have a plan! My DH and I have had this conversation many times. My 30-year old step-son, who was 8 when we got married, uses poor grammar.....the word ain't, don't instead of doesn't, seen instead of saw, and I swear if you heard him talk you'd think he left school in the 4th grade. Yes, DH corrected him while he was growing up and we modeled good grammar around him, but it just never "took." This kid was on the honor roll in HS and Dean's List in college, and had very close to a 4.0 for each - so he's bright and should know better! It's just mind boggling to me. DH has master's and doctorate degrees and a very public facing position in our community, and impeccable grammar, himself. Step-son is interviewing for a new job so DH just had a conversation with him this weekend about how important proper grammar is. Fortunately, they are extremely close and step-son doesn't get upset with these conversations.

" This kid was on the honor roll in HS and Dean's List in college, and had very close to a 4.0 for each "

This may say as much about the schools he went to, than about him. I don't think it's really possible to graduate from a decent college with speaking habits like that.

How do you explain it? Is he living/working in a milieu where he's associating with people having considerably less education than he has?

This is what I read:

" DH corrected him while he was growing up and we modeled good grammar around him, but it just never "took." This kid was on the honor roll in HS and Dean's List in college, and had very close to a 4.0 for each - so he's bright and should know better! It's just mind boggling to me. "

That's referring to the kid, not her husband. No?

So a family member shared this today and it made me think of this discussion 😁

Aren't there better things to pay attention to than made-up, fictional nonsense that floats around on the major "social media" outlets.

My husband grew up in the middle of dirt poor nowhere Arkansas. At times his grammar is poor. He still went to Harvard and is a very successful attorney, who is specialized and sought after in his field.

I count success by love. These grandkids are ahead already with parent and grandparents who love them. They will do alright in the world.

My aunt nagged everyone in our family terribly about grammar. She is now dead. This is what she is remembered for. It is not what I would want to be remembered for.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing; there can be a middle ground. No one is suggesting the OP turn into a nag by constantly criticizing - there are gentle ways, and one can also use humor. I wouldn't bother if the relationship is not a close one, however, or if guidance has not been provided or well received in the past. (By the recipient and/or the parent!) There are obviously lots of ways to be a grandparent. Ignoring flaws and just loving one's grands is one way, while helping occasionally to shape or try to shape speech, thoughts or behavior as a way of caring, is another.

I love both of the first answers that elmer and food gave, and they seem contradictory. But it's really more a pick your battle kind of thing.

I have family members whose first language is not English. And I correct kind of like elmer says... Sort of. I might say, "If it matters to you, most people say Bobby and I. But it's up to you." And when they don't choose that route, I let It go, I know what they mean. I don't judge them for it. Some things are just too hard to change!

I don't remember the actual reason why, but Japanese people really cannot say L's and Rs the way English speaking people do. My boss's last name begins with an r, and HW would say Latex Rab, when answering the phone, rather than Ratex Lab. I guess we all have issues, and we just have to accept it for what it is. HW is fondly remembered, and really, what was more important, was the work they did.

Ratex Lab .. Oh no! What a challenge.

The other possibility is that these kids are happy in the culture they are surrounded by and will be successful in jobs like others in their neighborhood have.

https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/8324/why-do-japanese-speakers-have-difficulty-pronouncing-l

It's a thing, but may not interact with people who are Japanese, and so you may not understand. It is a real issue for them. I hope the link helps you learn something!

Exactly Indigo Rose. EXACTLY!!!

We have to stop with the false all or nothing choices. Everyone gave great feedback. The best way forward combines lots of them.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

This may say as much about the schools he went to, than about him. I don't think it's really possible to graduate from a decent college with speaking habits like that.

How do you explain it? Is he living/working in a milieu where he's associating with people having considerably less education than he has?

We've always thought his schools were very good; his college is one of the top schools in the country for the engineering degree he has. DH's extended family is largely uneducated (with poor grammar) and stepson spends a lot of time with them. Also, he is an engineer in a manufacturing facility where most people aren't well educated. So those are likely the reasons, but it still seems odd since we didn't speak like that while he was growing up and lived with us.

Editing to say....my father wasn't educated beyond high school and worked as a carpenter all of his life, and he used excellent grammar. So, I guess in a lot of cases, it just depends on the person.

My grandchildren are speaking the language of their peers in this blue collar part of the city. I wonder if there is some kind of 'reverse pride' thing going on that schools won't touch. Odd, to pay tuition to educate your child -- and not have them learn proper English. There are stranger things.

We might use the 'circumstances' approach. It's OK to speak Chicagoese there, but not with family -- bilingual grandchildren.

That made me think about how many people will pick up the accent of those around them over time. I've noticed it most in Yanks living in the UK and people from other countries gradually adopting US speech patterns here.

And for all the people bothered by the perceived incorrect use of the word floor, this is the definition from my dictionary - specifically #3:

floor | flôr | noun

1 the lower surface of a room, on which one may walk: he dropped the cup and it smashed on the floor | the kitchen floor.

2 the bottom of the sea, a cave, or an area of land: the ocean floor.

3 informal the ground: the best way to play is to pass the ball on the floor.

4 a minimum level of prices or wages: the dollar's floor against the yen.

There is the ocean floor, the forest floor, the canyon floor, the desert floor….

But can you stand your ground on the forest floor?

Bear-ly!

Are the bear-s white, or brown, in your experience, roxsol?

Having a bit of fun here, it seems.

o j

Would a DVD of "My Fair Lady" help? DGD is a typical teen girl, into clothes and cosmetics. Appearance and a kind heart were not enough for Eliza Doolittle.

Ah, the beauty and complexity of the English language in America.