FWIW, you can make bread pudding in muffin cups...

" Kendra's version sounds like what we'd call Bread and Butter Pudding. It's basically layered slices and is essentially white in colour. It's soft and eaten with a spoon. "

A little bit of translation may help the conversation.

I've experienced in Britain that many use the word "pudding" in places where an American would say "dessert". As in:

Q- Do we have any pudding for after dinner?

A - Yes, I picked up some nice chocolate cake.

To Americans, "pudding" seems to only be used to describe dessert items with the consistency of what in Europe would be called "chocolate mousse". The plain name here for that is chocolate pudding, without reference to its ingredients or consistency. Consistent with that are vanilla pudding, or tapioca pudding, rice pudding, etc.

Also a tad of cultural translation - Europeans (and perhaps Brits too, maybe not to the same extent) tend more often to eat dessert with a spoon than we do. Other than for items that are soft or runny, Americans tend to eat dessert with a fork. When served a regular piece of cake in a restaurant, the implement presented would be a fork. In Europe, it's more likely a spoon.

Edit to add- why does the decidedly not semi-liquidly bread pudding (really bread dessert or even bread cake) retain the label of "pudding"? Perhaps the term crossed the ocean and remained unchanged.

True that carol. I've done bread puddings a few times in muffin tins. It can make for a lovely individual dessert presentation. And the fresh blueberries, mmm. We got an explosion on the highbushes out back ripening that I might need to do some lemon blueberry bread puddings with soon. Or maybe mullberries, we got lots of mulberries starting to come in.

I made bread pudding (dessert) once, and it was awesome, but I did it more from curiosity than anything else, and gave most of it away.

I had what a friend called "bread pudding" at her house once, but it was a bread-and-cheese casserole without egg - or at least without enough egg to be noticed (i.e. it wasn't like a strata). Awesome.

I love bread pudding and usually make the recipe form the Silver Palate cookbook. It is an adaptation of the recipe from the Bon Ton Restaurant in New Orleans. I don't make the whiskey sauce that goes with it, but usually make a caramel sauce or a Creme Anglaise.

Re verbiage, an English pudding-the-dish rather than the course, as best as I can tell from reading rather than living it (so Floral or Islay, please correct me if I've got it wrong), is a dish that's baked or boiled from a number of ingredients into a somewhat solid state that can be cut and served. These range for boiled cakes to custards, though usually have more disparate ingredients than Yorkshire pudding. Our USA standard bread pudding does fit in with this general idea of puddingness. More of the Brits whom I know make bread-and-butter pudding than one like mine, but that might just be what one has at hand. Sliced bread works better for b-and-b, whereas uncut works better for my kind of casserole.

Did anyone look at the OP link? I don't subscribe to NYT, and I wonder if it was the type of spam where they come back later and add the spam links? Because it does read like spam...

Did anyone look at the OP link?

I didn't because I don't have an NYT account.

There used to be a restaurant in the tiny town of Rockport Wa owned by a super conservative prepper couple from the John Birch Society imbued Coyote Valley Ca. They had a simple menu of enchilada, or a huge slab of tube ham with a ring of pineapple, a steak which always caused a lot of excitement because it was an enormous slab of tough beef shoulder that was burned on the outside and raw inside, and something else I dont recall. You started with a loaf of homemade currant bread. Each table had its own toaster. It was wonderful and it kept you from dying of starvation as you waited sometimes hours for your mostly inedible food. They bought some sort of horrible bag wine that they put in bottles. You had the Sons of the Pioneers as background music, Tumbling tumble weeds and yodeling and all. It all ended with a bowl of bread pudding. Actually very good bread pudding and I am not much of a fan. Memorable and always a very busy place. I always think of them when people mention bread pudding.

patriciae

TV - Here's the NYT link, subscribers can gift 10 articles a month for free. Let me know if this doesn't open and I'll go back and see if I have to link it a different way.

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1012636-simple-bread-pudding

" Did anyone look at the OP link? "

I did. It was a Mark Bittman recipe originally from the 2000 oughts, maybe 2007? He may be retired now, I used to like what he did.

Here's a cut and paste of the ingredient list, not particularly inspiring to me

• 2cups milk
• 2tablespoons unsalted butter, plus more for greasing pan
• 1teaspoon vanilla extract
• ⅓cup granulated sugar
• Pinch salt
• ½loaf sweet egg bread like challah or brioche, cut into 2-inch cubes (5 to 6 cups)
• 2eggs, beaten

We went out for dinner last Thursday. I had bread pudding for dessert (took it home, actually). It was so delicious and decadent with a caramel sauce and vanilla ice cream. I get it every time we go to that place.

I’ve never made bread pudding. To my recollection I’ve only had it a couple times that were so-so. I see Ina G has this recipe…sounds very rich!😵‍💫

Ina’s Bread Pudding

My basic recipe comes from the Black Family Reunion Cookbook. That Ina recipe looks different for the sake of being fancied up. And thanks for the ingredient list, the NYT looks sad. I know Challah is desired for French Toast (I used to use the end of the challah if it got stale for excellent French toast), but challah and brioche dissolve in good bread pudding. One of the best I've made was from a somewhat failed poppy seed yeast cake. It wasn't great cake and was a weird, almost green color, but it was fantasitic bread pudding made with a few scraps of sourdough and whole wheat to break up the sweet, and a lovely hard sauce. Some people make bread pudding with crumbs, more of a kugel-like texture. Otherwise, I'd suggest heartier bread and a good soak! I use one cup of rich milk to one large egg, and the rest is whatever I feel like, but nothing "cheffy".

Ina's recipe looks good, but I still could not eat it because of the milk. It reminds me a bit of the French toast that I make with brioche (or challah) bread, but of course then I have to make the brioche bread first. I've also used Panettone, but that is available only seasonally.

I would also have to cut Ina's recipe in half - I would not know what to do with 10 servings of bread pudding. I have to limit my sugar intake. I also would not melt the ice cream.

I apologize for the link in the OP. I didn't realize a subscription was needed for that site.

Thank you Ninapearl!

you're very welcome, donna. enjoy!!

Pudding(s) is/are interesting.

Yes, it's the Brit generic word for a dessert. Any type.

But a real pudding can be many things, each one as fantastic as the next.

Savoury puddings are things of delight. Imagine a freezing, wet day. You come in from work and the first thing that hits you is the aroma of gently cooked meat and gravy. Every household would have its own recipe but for me, it's a rich,slow-cooked beef and kidney stew with a rich, flavoursome sauce that is steamed in. You start by lining a pudding basin with suet pastry, fill it with the stew, top with a pastry lid then steam. When you tip it onto a plate and cut it open...... you're in heaven.

The dessert types vary.

My favourite are sponge based. Example, pour some good jam in the bottom of the pudding basin. Add a sponge mix, cover well and steam. When you tip it onto the plate, the jam will run down the sides of the sponge, which will be as light as a feather. Serve with pouring cream or custurd. There are many variations. All are fantastic.

British desserts are usually eaten with a spoon because they're usually served with cream or custard. Think crumbles, fruit pies, tarts, chocolate mousse or other flavours, fools, compotes, Brits are the kings of puddings! Or then again, there's Queen of puddings!!! https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/queen_of_puddings_79904, pavlovas, all types of meringues, ice-creams, look here for more inspiration https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/collections/great_british_puddings

I'm not sure where Elmer was served cake with a spoon. Cake would be served at tea-time with a cake fork.

Thank you Ninapearl!

Sure! I've heard of how "puddings", especially boiled or steamed, are made in the UK, and saw a demo on TV decades ago, though I've never eaten (a portion of) one, and also the related use of "pudding" to refer to a mess of stuff thrown together, though the latter is something i've heard of, rather than heard, or if I heard it, say on TV, I probably just figured it out from context and didn't note it.

I'm not sure that we'd call a savory pudding a "pie" under the circumstance where it wasn't labelled as "pudding", or meant to be British. With a top and bottom crust, I do see how it could be called "pie", but as served, I'm not convinced that would be the word that came to mind. Based on Islay's descriptions, vessel filled with stew and surrounded by crust, it's more like some versions of "pot pie" having a bottom crust, though I suppose some casseroles are also called "pie". I think it needs a modifier, like "pot", "tamale" or "puddin''", rather than just being called "pie". I've never exactly known what "puddin' pie" meant other than as a diminutive, but maybe this is it? And the sweet one, with the cake baked on top of the jam, sounds like a form of upside down cake!

'That to us would be a meat pie.'

A meat pie and a meat pudding are different things in construction and consistency. I make both steak and kidney pie and pudding. Pudding dough is soft in consistency. Pies are crisp.

As to eating utensils. We'd use both a spoon and a fork for any sweet pie or pudding which is likely to have a runny filling or a sauce.

I've never heard the expression 'pudding pie'.

A pudding basin is deep and rounded, so neither cake nor pie shaped. It's late here. But tomorrow I'll find some pix of a pudding basin.

This is a raised pie.

This is a cake

This is a steak and kidney pie.

" it's more like some versions of "pot pie" "

So is it pudding or pie?

There's a "restaurant", maybe more like an old fashioned diner, in San Diego called "San Diego Chicken Pie Shop". It's been open since 1938. It doesn't have an extensive menu nor gourmet food but for what it is, it's an interesting and tasty place to eat every now and again when down there.

It doesn't sell pudding.

This is an individual chocolate pudding.

Floral, I thought I'd adequately explained the difference in nomenclature for the word pudding between the two countries. No? I think we all understand what the subject matter is.

Also, to your comment:

" We'd use both a spoon and a fork for any sweet pie or pudding "

That's not the usual practice here.

Puddin' Pie is an affectionate diminutive like Honeybunch or Sweet Lamb.

We don't have baked or steamed or boiled puddings here other than in homes or tea shops run by people from the UK.

I know what a pudding basin is. I've had a couple through the years, my current one is a pretty yellow. I don't have a pic of it so pulled one from the google. They look like this- the stepped rim is so you can tie your cloth on, and the grooves are in the foot to help the bowl sit right while the steaming is happening. Don't want your pudding to tiddle with bubbles.

There for sure is a difference between an open dish baked pudding, a steamed pudding like a steak and kidney pudding, an enclosed in a dutch oven pudding like a white pot, a boiled pudding, and a baked pie like a steak pie.

Like a bread and butter bread pudding baked in open dish will have crispy outside edges, some carmelization, soft and light-ish center. Same thing steamed in a pudding basin will yield a moist and dense bread pudding. Same thing in a pudding basin inside a dutch oven will have a somewhat drier and dense bread pudding.

I learned a lot of my pudding skills from early American, Pennsylvania Dutch, and Midwestern Cornish cooking. Mostly fun historical field trips as a kid that had to be repeated at home. And some of it really good and worth revisiting as an adult. I love a good open bake pudding, and will use my pudding basin... but I will likely never use a pudding cloth or be willing to stuff pudding into sausage casings. As a mmmm, steamed pudding- use masa dough to line your basin, and use tamale fillings as the filling. Turns out like a big tamale without the corn husk.

But anywho, bread pudding. With summer produce coming in... you can make bread pudding with cornbread, and add in corn, jalapenos, chorizo. Grilled slices of zucchini or eggplant tucked in amongst the bread with Greek seasonings and feta cheese. You can use a bread pudding filling to stuff big ole sweet peppers.

“Sweet Lamb”? I’ve never heard that. Here it’s Lambie Pie.

I am wondering why some one from GB is having to defend the use of words they use to describe foods they make and eat. That they do make and eat these foods as they do is truth. Just because we dont do the same is beside the point.

Culinarily speaking traditional steamed puddings are from when people might not have an oven or want to spend the money to bake. Boiled or steamed is done in a pot over an open fire. People often took pies for baking to bake houses. Traditional puddings were not super sweet because sweet was expensive. Very filling stuff

Of course I know what a pudding basin is. They come in multiple sizes.

Oh there is a U tube video series about a cook in a British great house...The Victorian Way. Lots of making puddings of all sorts. Mrs Crocombe. Based on her notes on recipes she used. A real person.

patriciae

" I am wondering why some one from GB is having to defend the use of words they use to describe foods they make and eat. "

You've apparently misunderstood the conversation rather completely.

Yes, we were just conversing about the differences in what we make and what we call things.

Re cutlery, here in the UK for use when eating a pudding/dessert. In a restaurant/hotel the place setting will always include a spoon and fork. The exception to this might be when something such as icecream is served in a tall glass when just a teaspoon would be needed. Of course 'at home' how people serve or eat any food/meals is a individual choice and less cutlery equals less washing-up.

In my long-ago school day I remember steamed puddings being the highlight of an otherwise dreary lunch. The various flavours included ginger, jam sponge or chocolate always served with very yellow custard. I don't remember pies being on the menu, whether savory or sweet but tarts were quite usual. Baked and served from flat trays they were a layer of pastry with a covering of jam, again served in a pond of custard. In fact I have been served custard over a bunch of fresh grapes . .. stalks included . . . in a school canteen.

Did an image search, and these pudding pies look yummy...

I think Key Lime pie might qualify as well 🙂

beesnees - I saved several of those bowls from the years DD was dating British fellow. I had enough going on that day with family visiting, presents and dinner so I took the easy way out and bought a Christmas pudding from the supermarket.

carolb, you must have had strong motivation to waste time doing that. The conversation had to do with differences in word use from one place to another, you too may have missed that.

How often have you used or heard anyone else use the term "pudding pie" to describe a Key Lime?

How regularly do you use, or hear anyone else use, the word "pudding" as a synonym for the broad category of treats after a meal we call "dessert"?

The quintessential American pudding other than the various custard types and of course Hasty which I dont suppose anyone would call pudding these days is Banana pudding. I have always wondered what motivated a company to make vanilla wafers. What else are they useful for. It is in the same genre as Trifle and Tiramisu. My mother had learned to make egg custard so she could make Banana pudding.

It is an odd thing that Americans in general abandoned steamed puddings to be replaced with cakes and pies. It is not obvious but even pecan pie is a custard pie like Chess pie and the less usual cornmeal. Were we more likely to have ovens or to use them when we did?

I learned to make steamed pudding and even boiled plum pudding because my ex was a fan. I had pudding basins of course and still have a steamed pudding mold which I use now to make small panettone. It is metal and has a clamping lid. Plum pudding is interesting because a traditional recipe calls for minced beef suet.

I believe the actual subject on discussion here was Bread Pudding.

I looked up the etymology of pudding and it might be from the French for sausage or German for swell. Our modern concept of soft eggy goop is a long way from that. Think Haggis which they tell us these days is not Scots.

patriciae

My Christmas puddings (rarely called plum pudding these days) do indeed contain beef suet. As do many steamed puddings. It's used to make suet pastry.

My ancestors on one side of my family came from England and we always had plum pudding for Christmas. I remember my grandmother making it, but she didn't use a pudding basin, but rather a metal mold w/clamp or even 1# coffee cans that were covered with wax paper and tied with a string to age in the refrigerator. It's still a favorite of mine, but I haven't made it in a long time. As an American child, I never understood why we called it pudding. Fond memories!

ETA: I love the translucent sauce that was served over the pudding.

Not sure what sauce that would be. Rum or brandy butter maybe?

Likely what we call "hard sauce", which I looked up an the GAI said it's the same thing as brandy butter.

It's called "hard sauce" in many parts of the UK as well.

Getting back to bread and butter pudding, when I make it I butter the bread slices and then top them with (home made) marmalade. I also strew sultanas/white raisins between the layers. Once I pour the custard mixture over the bead, I leave it to soak in for at least an hour before baking.

"I think Key Lime pie might qualify as well 🙂"

Depends on what it's thickened with. If it's with eggs, it's technically a custard pie rather than a pudding pie. If another thickening agent like cornstarch, tapioca, arrowroot, or flour is used, then it's a pudding pie. It's why a no-bake or fridge pudding pie is really a pudding pie, Jell-O uses cornstarch as it's thickening agent in the puddings. Long ago when I lived in Wisconsin there was this African place, and they had a delicious pudding pie that was made with cassava.

Which is kind of funny when you think about it. If you took the liquid that sweet bread pudding is made with, and baked it in a pie shell, it would be considered a custard pie.

I can’t believe I just read this whole thread. We are an interesting group here. 🤣

For the interests of the poll takers my family has a favorite pie and it is called Chocolate Pudding Pie and it is made with graham cracker crust, jello brand chocolate pudding and whipped cream. So that would be a pudding pie for me. Carol posted a photo of one.

My family also has a hard sauce recipe which is, interestingly enough - hard. Not pourable at all. The butter and sugar recipe sets up and you would slice off pieces to put on top of warm apple pie. I have not had that one in years. Thanks for the memories.

I always thought ”puddin' pie” was just two sweets put together to make a doubly sweet thing to call a loved one. :) But at Thanksgiving time my cousin said she thought she'd make something like the chocolate pudding pie JoanM described to please herself, but just said ”chocolate pie” and I didn't think ”pudding pie”. Since I wasn't making my chocolate crust pumpkin pie with chocolate drizzle, I offered to make the chocolate pie with chocolate crust, but the recipe was for an enriched ganache, like a light, whipped fudge, so still no ”pudding pie”. ;)

I do believe that ”pudding” to most Americas is cornstarch pudding (or similar starch thickened goop more on the road to mousse, though heavier, than anything solid or structured), though the banana custard with Nilla Wafers mentioned by Patricia was very popular for awhile. I think the recipe was on the box. I know someone who makes it. But Nilla Wafers are just cookies. No mystery. We liked eating them as such when we were kids. My father liked Nabisco cookies in general, though he could have had any kind.

IMO, what makes the bread soaked in custard bread pudding so good is the (softened) structure of the bread with the creaminess of the custard. It's wonderfully satisfying, especially if it's not overly sweet.

NinaPearl’s chocolate bread pudding rang my bells. That recipe is saved and cued up in my brain now until I try it. 💕

My Key Lime Pie recipe is basically condensed milk thickened with fresh lime juice.

And my tapioca pudding recipe calls for an egg.

I am amused that parsing what pudding is or isn't is on a thread that is about Bread pudding that is made with egg custard and it is called Bread pudding regardless of whether it is baked solid or soft and squishy.

patriciae

Too true!

Carol, I wouldn't say nay to a Floridian! Still, my supposed to be true to form key lime pie recipe calls for egg yolks whisked with sweetened condensed milk, which would be a kind of custard. Is yours more like a curd?

plllog, same for me with key lime pie…sc milk, egg yolks, lime juice and zest.

Well exactly Elmer. You misunderstand me.

patriciae