In the 60's, there was a hole-in-the-wall little "nightclub" at the eastern edge of the Sunset Strip called Pandora's Box. I put nightclub in quotes because it wasn't one like the better-known ones farther down the street, like the Whiskey a Go Go. It was known as a dive that catered to teens, aka as a "teeny bopper" hangout. It served no alcohol so there was no age minimum to enter.

Among other patrons, the place attracted a rowdy element. And because the building was so small, people coming to "the scene" congregated on the sidewalk up and down the street, creating a lot of noise and disruption. Neighbors and others complained, a 10pm curfew was passed for The Box as it was called, and ultimately there were public demonstrations and little marches to protest what the authorities were doing to try to control the public nuisance.

I can say it that way with the benefit of age. I did go a few times and it was a bit of a circus.

Many demonstrations and protests later, the place was closed down. A tempest in a teapot that agitated demonstrations by teens and others who I think had little else to do.

One night, driving by while police were doing their best to control the crowd, was Stephen Stills. It motivated him to write a song, which he played for his Buffalo Springfield bandmates as "here's a new song I just wrote, for what it's worth. "

They're released their first album and it was stalling. For What It's Worth was recorded and put onto the album in place of Baby Don't Scold Me, and also released as a single. The song got a lot of airplay, became popular, and pulled up the fortunes of the sagging album and the band.

The song is not the anthem of a generation tired of the Vietnam War. It's not something written in frustration about governmental or social problems. It was about a little teen hangout on Sunset Blvd that created a public nuisance and was closed.

Here's a lip-synced video

This is a tale that I think was covered directly or obliquely in a recent movie. I know the movie has fictional parts to it and I haven't seen it. I'll tell the story as I've known it for many years, from the mouth of Al Kooper himself. I may also have mentioned this before.

Al Kooper was a young aspiring musician who'd had some modest successes in his teens, both in a band and from doing some session work. Along the way, he'd made the acquaintance of Tom Wilson, an innovative and respected record producer. Wilson had an important session coming up and he contacted Kooper and invited him to watch.

The session was for Bob Dylan. Kooper decided he would leave the control booth and try to sneak in to play. He'd brought his guitar. He walked in pretending he belonged, took out his guitar, set it up and started warming up. Along comes the guitarist hired for the gig, Mike Bloomfield (a well-respected giant at the time) who does the same, taking out his guitar and warming up. Kooper, looking over at him, knowing who he was and knowing that this guy could play better than he could with one hand, realized there was no potential. He put the guitar back in the case and started to walk out.

On the way out, he saw there was an organ set up and no one sitting at it. He'd never played the organ before but could do basic piano chords. He decided to sit down, pretend like he belongs, and try to play along.

There were no charts for the song. He didn't know the song as the other warmed up. But he was determined to contribute. The song started and he jumped in, picking his spots. Because he didn't know the song or the chord progressions, you can still hear in the final version that the organ lags at chord changes - he'd wait to hear what the others had played for the change and then knew what he could play.

When the song finished, Dylan asked to hear the playback. In the middle of it, he said "turn the organ up". Then there was the embarrassing "who are you" conversation. Dylan liked the unplanned part Kooper played and offered him a job in his band. Kooper played and toured with Dylan as a result of his bold move.

More about Bob Dylan:

He was being interviewed by one of the TV news/interview programs. Here's an approximation of a portion of the conversation:

Q- How does it feel to have written songs that were the anthems of a generation wanting social change?

A- I didn't do anything like that.

Q- But you were viewed as The spokesman of the movement for social enlightenment.

A- No, I'm no spokesman. I'm just a singer

Q- But people saw in your songs inspiration and direction they wanted society to advance toward.

A- There's no such meanings in any of my songs.

Q- Then what do your songs mean?

A- They mean whatever anyone wants them to mean. Or, nothing at all. They're just songs.

Q- Are you saying you never intended to express political views?

A- That's right. There's no political content in any of my songs.

Q- Then why did you write them

A- I wanted to be as popular as Elvis and I wrote songs to help get there.

Here are a couple of his songs which he insists had no intended meaning, and I believe him. They're just songs. Great songs.

Cream was one of the first Supergroups. When listening to the sadly small number of songs they produced in the group's short lifetime, it's hard to remember that there are only three musicians playing and most of the songs don't have overdubs. Ginger Baker on drums, Jack Bruce on bass guitar, Eric Clapton on guitar. Each was considered at the top of the list of excellence on their respective instruments.

The idea germinated because they'd met one another and realized that the synergy and competence a group of such expert musicians could exceed that which other groups with less talent could do.

Baker and Bruce had been in a group together before. They loved playing together (after all, bass and drums play collaboratively and are the rhythm section of a band) but on a personal level, they hated each other. They could never get along. They couldn't live with one another and the group couldn't continue. That was the end.

Cream was a great band. I was lucky to see them several times live. They were together barely three years. They did do a reunion series of 8 or 10 performances at Royal Albert Hall around 2005 and a video of that is available and most enjoyable. The first video is a live performance of their best known song from the Albert Hall series.

Baker and Bruce are dead now, only Clapton is alive today.

Badge, composed by Clapton with his best friend who was in another group - George Harrison

SWLABR, pronounced the same as it's spelled ;-)

The Go-Go's are a group I liked from when I first heard them. They had to persevere through a lot of headwinds and resistance in the music industry of the day that was uninterested in and unsupportive of female groups. I think the group as individual musicians were quite good, with one exception.

The bass player, Kathy Valentine, was very blah. She wrote an autobiography that was a joke. She was a wannabe rock star who wasn't a rock star. This is the one I mentioned before, Valentine was really not successful as a musician before the Go-Go's and that trend continued after the group broke up. At one time when they got back together, the other members voted to not include her. She sued and got reinstated. So she was not held in high esteem by the others. There were a few other times when some of the group pursued other projects together and didn't include Valentine.

Great group. Belinda Carlisle has a lot of charisma and personality as a lead singer

I think the thing for me that separates guitarists at the top of the pyramid, like Clapton, certainly Trucks, Duane Allman, Mark Knopfler, Stills, Young, and many others on my list but not all that are on others' lists, is that they play musically and melodically. And in their own unique styles. And they play the song, not extraneous passages.

It's easy to play loud and to play based on power chords or screaming tones. I can do that, it's easy, just settings on the guitar, amp, and effects pedals. Playing with feeling, notes and sequences that are seasonings that enhance and don't clash with the song, is something very different. I think it's an innate and inherent ability and perhaps a gift (a word I don't otherwise like) that even many successful pros don't have.

I think Young once said something like "Don't think about what you're playing, just play. If you think, you stink".

Elmer - may I ask your opinion of Eddie Van Halen? I would put him up there with Clapton and Trucks, and Stevie Ray Vaughn. He was a spectacular guitarist, completely self-taught. His biography, written by his brother, is interesting. Eddie couldn't read music, and he got nervous playing in front of an audience.

My personal opinion, Chartreuse, and only that.

I had him in the back of my mind when mentioning loud, screaming tones. I never found his playing musical or pleasing. Fast, loud, screaming. He was innovative in that style but you haven't seen many highly regarded fellow guitarists flocking to play that way.

I'll give him credit for ticking the box "Don't play like Mr or Ms X, play like YOU".

Most guitarists are self taught. Reading music, meh. Unless you're a session player and need to follow a written chart to play a specific, intended part (which is not often the case), it's not a necessary skill. Most don't unless they first had studied to play an instrument, the playing of which always involves sheet music.

Knowing music theory, absolutely. Knowing chord progressions of all kinds and modes (there are 7) - absolutely. The guitar is a great teacher, most of these things become apparent and visible as one learns fingering different scale positions, alternative chords forms, and progressions.

I thought of a personal experience some may find interesting.

You can probably tell that many of my contributions involve LA-based bands. It's where I grew up and these bands had a greater footprint in their "musical home town" than elsewhere. It was also these bands which, when I was a teen, could see playing at small gigs as they were beginning their own careers.

A band that played all over locally was the Byrds. I saw them several times and was and still am a huge fan. When the band finally broke up, the members mostly each went their own ways.

The youngest member, the bass player Chris Hillman, continued his journey as a musician and has spent his career that way. He's mostly retired but tours occasionally and has done so in the last 25 or so years.

It was probably 15 or more years ago that I went to see him perform with his old Desert Rose partner Herb Pederson. They did an excellent acoustic show and when finished, came into the audience to mingle with anyone who wanted to step up and do the meet/greet/chat routine. I grabbed the opportunity and stood in line to have my few minute visit.

I told him that I'd enjoyed his music for what at that time had to have been over 30 years and that I appreciated that he still actively performed. He was very modest in thanking me for the compliment. A bit more chit chat and then a question popped into my head:" Chris, didn't you write the song the Byrds recorded "Have You Seen Her Face?". He blushed (I wondered what was happening) and he put his hands to his face and then said "Oh my goodness. I completely forgot about that song. It was one of the first I ever wrote, I love it like a first girlfriend. How could I have forgotten it? No, I haven't played it in as long as I can remember. Thanks for reminding me of it".

Well, I though, that was an interesting experience.

About 6 months later, I was planning to be in SoCal and when looking to see what performers may be around to see, saw that Hillman would be in the area I would be visiting. I bought advance tickets.

It happened on this trip (and for this concert) my wife wasn't witn me but one of my kids was. I'd probably told him a few too many times of the earlier incident of reminding Hillman of a favorite song he'd forgotten about.

We went to the show. Hillman and Pederson came out on stage to the normal audience cheering. The spots came on, Hillman thanked everyone for coming out, and then they started into the first song - HAVE YOUR SEEN HER FACE!!!!! I went nuts and started yelling. No, not normal behavior for me. I still get a chill thinking about it, as I type this.

Here are two versions - the Byrds version, and the version he does now acoustically.

Thats fair, Elmer. I know EVH listed Clapton as his biggest influence. :)

His technique of ”tapping” has been much emulated. The screaming guitar is a good descriptor - much like Jimi Hendrix (I loathe his playing).

I do invite you to listen to EVH’s 316:

https://youtu.be/W-wwuRJax1o?si=bessXw9dLYmxsmHW

I’s sure you’re aware that he also did the guitar solo in Michael Jackson’s “Beat It” - the story behind that is funny, too.

Your comment is interesting and made me do a bit of thinking.

I was/am a big fan of Hendrix and his unfortunately abbreviated body of work. You're right that his tone sometimes (not always) had a screaming quality (easily produced with an amp setting or O/D effects box) . But his playing was very musical and his style of how he continued to play intricately (and musically) behind his singing was one of his dramatic innovations. To this day, few people can or do play that way. It's very hard to do.

I think you'll agree that we all have favorites. Van Halen and his band and their music never grabbed me like others did. I'm sure among my favorites are acts you similarly don't prefer.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I too don't like Hendrix playing. But, one cannot deny, he was ground breaking, and he was innovative when it comes to guitar. And I can respect that.

I get that sentiment. I think maybe I appreciate him more as a guitar playing fan myself(at a MUCH lower level) who has learned some of his songs. But our tastes vary.

Here are some quotes from a well known guitarist on the first time he played with Hendrix

" “He played just about every style you could think of, and not in a flashy way. I mean he did a few of his tricks, like playing with his teeth and behind his back, but it wasn’t in an upstaging sense at all, and that was it… He walked off, and my life was never the same again”. "

and

" He got up and blew everyone’s mind. I just thought ‘ahh, someone that plays the stuff I love in the flesh, on stage with me. ’I was actually privileged to be (on stage with him)… it’s something that no one is ever going to beat; that incident, that night, it’s historic in my mind "

--- Eric Clapton

There is something about seeing artists in the flesh. So different than recorded stuff. I really enjoyed the concert I attended on Nashville's Riverfront. BB King and Buddy Guy. True showmen. If I remember correctly, Buddy played up close and really personal, amongst the crowd! The Allman Brothers playing with SRV is the concert that got away for me. Husband got to see them. That would be my dream concert.

I agree with you but not everyone does. A good example - I love recordings of live performances. Videos of live performances. Not intending a pun, but they're live and Alive, with all the shining gems and ugly warts that happen when music is played. It makes the music real. It used to be that the recording process was one aimed at perfection. "No, that take was flat, do it again" or "let's redo the passage after the bridge, it seemed off". Now, more artists strive for a live sound in recorded music and want to capture the real sound as it's performed, not after a zillion cuts, patches, and autotune/pitch correction processing.

About missing concerts, I've learned the hard way that sometimes one-off or never again tours or shows come along and getting to a particular event becomes a "now or never" situation. I can think of a handful of such concerts I've been to, one involving a trip to Chicago just for the concert, that I'm ever so glad I made the effort to get to.

Two more interesting things came to mind. The first:

I've never been a big Motown fan but I liked a number of songs done by the Four Tops and Smokey Robinson/Miracles. Of the latter, Tears of a Clown is one I've long liked. I think what first caught my attention was the tooting bassoon in the arrangement. The lyrics are succinct and interesting too.

I saw an video interview with Robinson recently and learned a bunch more about the song. The music was written by Stevie Wonder. He made no progress trying to write lyrics to go with it so he passed a demo instrumental recording along to Smokey Robinson, who was regarded as a master writer of clean and to the point lyrics.

Robinson listened and heard a circus vibe to it, especially the part that sounds like a calliope. That led him to thinking of clowns, and also of the Italian opera Pagliacci that featured a sad clown. Inspiration complete, he wrote the lyrics. He even refers to Pagliacci by name near the end of the song.

How cool is that!

The second is a song entitled Morning Glory, written by Tim Buckley and performed three different ways. It's a song I've long enjoyed and the three different performances show how the same song can be different with different arrangements/voices/treatments.

First, the song performed live by Buckley

Next, as performed by the original Blood Sweat and Tears, as led by Al Kooper, on its first album Child Is Father To The Man. You can hear Kooper's organ playing prominently in the mix. This album was a favorite of mine during HS years. Click on the Youtube Link to see a larger image of the cover, it was quite innovative for its time

Last, a beautiful version by Linda Ronstadt. She is/was a great favorite of mine too. Interestingly, the title is called Hobo, not Morning Glory

Elmer, just wanted to say I’ve enjoyed the music trivia and the videos also. A walk back in time for me in some ways. I haven’t had a lot of time the past few days to comment, and for some odd reason, a couple of the comments I did make disappeared.

The background about many of the artists was interesting. The one video that truly was stunning was the live performance by CSN of Judy Blue Eyes.

I have to ditto all your favorite guitarists and add mine, Vince Gill. I didn’t become much of a ’country music’ fan until about 20 years ago and started to appreciate more of the talent that was represented in the songwriting and roots of a lot of the music. As with any music genre there is some I don’t care for much, but i do enjoy Tedeschi Trucks and Chris Stapleton as well.

I hope to go back and review more of the videos today. Thanks for the fun.

Links to related threads:

Tidbits Part 1

Unexpected reunions, go now or go never