You know. It could be he remember a cake that used a box mix, at least as a base. The idea of home baked cakes from scratch is inspiring but the truth is if you give most people a made from scratch yellow cake and a yellow box cake in a blind taste test, most will choose the box cake. Unless someone grew up with made from scratch many will find them too dense and heavy. That's why even good bakeries use pre-mixes as the foundation. Another secret to good cake is to bake it ahead and freeze it for a day or so. That step makes for a moister cake. That is also the reason standard layer cakes usually call for oil over other shortening unlike other heavier, denser cakes like bundt and pound cakes.

Yes, it was the non-Dutched (I think) cocoa powder that was subtly red. There were lots of velvet cakes, which refers to the texture which is velvety, not spongy. I've made an old fashioned red cocoa velvet cake. It's too subtle for modern tastes. It's faintly cocoa-y, not chocolate-y, and the red is very subdued. There was a food dye company in the mid-20th century that did big ads promoting using a whole little bottle of their dye to make your red velvet really really red, and that changed it forever, pushing other velvet cakes out out style as well. The redness of the cocoa is also being the origin of "devil's food" IIRC. I did my own thing cobbled together, but I don't have a copy of what I did. It was a fancy but old fashioned cocoa powder of the proper redness. Guittard, I think.

This guy did a big exploration of the subject.

http://benstarr.com/blog/real-red-velvet-cake-with-no-food-coloring-or-beet-juice/

In my non-Southern world, Swans Down in the box is cake flour. I don't know if there are other kinds. Antilope's chart on Fresh Loaf is old, but probably still accurate. Swans Down is listed at 7.1% protein (the nutrition label loses the difference between flours in rounding error because the serving size is so small). https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17045/protein-content-flour

Cake flour vs. AP makes a big difference in texture. The blog, linked above, uses a custom blend.

Amylou, without some adjectives from your SO, I'd hesitate to make a recommendation. What was his mom's like? Really moist? Really firm? Tangy? If tangy, was that the cake or cream cheese icing? Was the cake sweeter than other cakes? Chocolate-y tasting?

My experience of caramel cake was a plain cake with a caramel ribbon or soak and a tangy caramel frosting. I've never made it though. Just a mention of a possible variation.

Best of good luck!

Olychick's suggestion of getting more history re:the cakes might be very helpful. Is he talking a caramel cake or one with caramel frosting? I'm not familiar with a caramel cake, but am with an old fashoned burnt sugar cake.

This is funny. In my really southern family background we did not have Red Velvet cake and I have never heard of Caramel Cake. Go figure. We had coconut, Lemon Jelly or German Chocolate. I am doing German Chocolate for DH this year. He actually made me my favorite Lemon Jelly last year while I was laid up. So sweet. I was the family baker so don't mind baking a cake. A couple of years ago he wanted some german cherry tort thing that I had to make in 100 degree heat. Freak weather here. Horrible. The whip cream frosting kept sliding off the cake. Never again.

I'm not a fan of red velvet cakes, to me they are simply chocolate cake "wannabe" imposters, LOL. Give me a good, dark, moist and really chocolate cake. And I'm with you on the cream cheese, I just don't care for the stuff but I make cream cheese frosting for those who do.

My caramel cake isn't really a caramel cake, it's a plain yellow/vanilla cake with caramel frosting. It's an America's Test Kitchen recipe that I made for one of my birthdays, I try to make a cake I'll like and have never made before on each birthday. This year's must not have been great because I don't remember what it even was!

Elery pronounced the caramel cake one of the best cakes he has ever had, though, and I really liked it too, I've made it a couple of times since then. Here are links, you have to sign in to ATK but food dot com has the same recipe, with the appropriate credit to ATK.

Easy Caramel Cake - ATK Recipe - Food.com

Easy Caramel Frosting - ATK Recipe - Food.com

It didn't take hours with a double boiler or use any special ingredients, but Elery and I both liked it and he almost never eats cake.

Happy Birthday to SO. I think he should take John's advice, though, he's lucky to have you!

Annie

Last cake I made was a red velvet 22 years ago for Christmas. And yes it did have red dye. I can't remember what the frosting was made of, but I don't think it was cream cheese.

The maker of the legendary red velvet cake was his grandmothers sister. She would be around 100 years old right now if she were still alive. His mother is still alive, but does not have the recipe and no one else does either. No one else tries to make it. He really cannot give me ANYTHING as far as what SPECIFICALLY he liked about it. Just that it was the best he's ever tasted. He likes several caramel cakes from local restaurants. But not enough to where I would go get a whole one for his birthday. These cakes to me just look like yellow cake with a light caramel filling and frosting. That is, not sticky and thick like regular caramel. A confection, more than a frosting, like soft fudge.

I have made boxed red velvet cake with homemade cream cheese frosting. Again, fine but not what he remembers. Nothing special. That is why I was intrigued by the variations in recipes. Did it have coffee in it? Is that it? I HATE when people put coffee into MY beloved chocolate cake, thinking some sort of alchemy will happen. I can taste it, and I hate coffee, and its gross. But maybe that is the flavor he misses? He is not a huge coffee drinker. One cup on very cold mornings, and full of creamer and sugar. So maybe not. Does using buttermilk rather than regular really make a big difference in taste? I just do not know.

I may do a boxed yellow cake mix with homemade caramel frosting and filling because as I mentioned above, I made the whole thing from scratch last time and the cake was the part that was lacking. I do like boxed cake mixes better than homemade in general. But if I were to attempt the red velvet, I would do it from scratch, as the boxed mix did not cut it last time.

Yes, I think buttermilk is essential in red velvet cake. Even if you're not specifically using it for activating baking soda, it enhances the flavor. I don't really like the red velvets that are currently popular, which is why I did the historical one. I don't suggest that for your SO, though. It's far more likely his great-aunt made a post-dye version.

Sally has a recipe that reads "right":

https://sallysbakingaddiction.com/red-velvet-layer-cake-with-cream-cheese-frosting/

A goodly subset of recipes call for "ermine" frosting, which is a boiled milk frosting.

Joy of Baking uses a compound frosting of cream cheese, mascarpone and whipped cream. https://www.joyofbaking.com/RedVelvetCake.html

I was looking for historical recipes when I found the above. Here's the one from the sellers of the dye back when: https://www.tasteofsouthern.com/adams-original-red-velvet-cake-recipe/

Someone's granny's recipe, which on a quick scan looks like any other: https://sweetkitchencravings.com/recipes/old-fashioned-red-velvet-cake/

But I couldn't find anything really earth shaking.

My friend who requested Red Velvet for her birthday, before I volunteered to bring one (it was for her party on the other side of my state, in a small town with no access to a cake bakery, so I had to transport it for about 6 hours, two days before the party), she decided she would just make one. She told me she bought the ingredients and it called for TWO bottles of red food coloring!!! Even the bakery cake tasted a tiny bit artificial, bitter to me from the dye. And it was from a very fine European bakery in my city, so I'm sure it was the food coloring. I just don't get the love. I love a great chocolate cake.

AmyLou, wonder if there is more to his memory about the cake than the actual cake? You know how our tastebud are nostalgic for iconic childhood foods? Maybe that is something no one else will be able to replicate. But I admire you for trying.

A goodly subset of recipes call for "ermine" frosting, which is a boiled milk frosting.

This^^^ Ermine frosting is a sort of cross between frosting & filling. Wonderful mouth feel; not so sweet. I believe that this cooked frosting is true to the original Red Velvet cake.

I'm not fond of cream cheese generally except for frosting on pumpkin bars and carrot cake.

I'm thinking that your SO may be remembering a RV cake with an ermine frosting and that could explain why other cakes aren't measuring up to his memory.

Sorry I don't have a good recipe for either. But I have a friend who is now 99. I mentioned to her that things don't seem to taste like they used to. I was blaming it on the quality of the food, but she said no...your sense of taste changes over time, so the deep flavors you remember as a kid you simply can't taste any more. She's probably right as I find butter bland now, but it tasted yummy as a kid. I remember swooning over real whipped cream, but not so much any more. And of course things that were super sweet and loved as a kid, I couldn't touch today. I could never understand how OJ could be too sweet....but now I do...or how cabbage could be sweet, but now it is.

Then there's the old one of how the newlywed tried every which way to make a dish for her husband, but he only ever said, "It doesn't taste like mother used to make." She finally broke down in tears, so exasperated with trying. He said, "You don't understand! Mother was a lousy cook!"

or how cabbage could be sweet, but now it is.

IMO, cabbage has really changed. Different cultivars? OTOH, I do cook it differently than my mother did. I slice thick 'steaks' of cabbage and cook it with real butter, low & slow in an oil core electric skillet. Almost cabbage candy!

Amy, try Shirley’s. It is a old family recipe. No cake flour. Just stuff anyone would of had. It is the most like I remember from my childhood. She showed me how to cook turnip greens the real way, also. She died from cancer a year or so after I retired in 2010. I still have her recipe card and can post a photo. I did try cocoa and oil when the company changed the chocolate squares.

Amy, can I message you? It does not seem to be active.

DH has been trying to replicate flavors he remembers from his visit to ethnic-Chinese Malay friends in Malaysia, 40 years ago. And trying to replicate something my grandmother made when I was a child and loved, and I haven’t had the likes since. He’s a bit frustrated that he can’t replicate either.

So it is an impossible task. He keeps trying with the Chinese-Malaysian flavors, though, and I get to be the unfortunate co-taster. And remember, our taste buds change as we age! I can’t remember what the story is there, but I think it’s that sweet becomes a more-desired flavor, that sensation holds on the longest as we age.

When our kids were younger, we switched to brownies or pies for birthdays, and it has been wonderful. Although, when they have SOs of their own, who knows if they will try to replicate those. Fortunately, they are different every time so maybe that will be part of the fun.

Yes Sherry. My messages are turned on.

Yes, you can duplicate. The thing is, they as males, did not cook. It takes a while.

I'm pretty sure this is the recipe I used. No cream cheese frosting. It reminded me of the cake my mom made back in the 60s, except back then she used a liquid food coloring instead of gel.

https://theunlikelybaker.com/red-velvet-cake/

My mother, the usual family cook, would be around 100. She did not bake desserts much due to egg allergies in our family, but I had plenty of cakes at the homes of relatives around the same age, or the generation before them. I remember them offering cakes that followed recipe fads. Adding instant pudding was one fad. Adding mayonnaise was another. Could one of those be what your SO is missing?

I don't think my relatives added red food coloring, or, if they did, it must not have been much. I say that because I remember having store-bought red velvet cake and being surprised it was so red. As someone said above, I find the food coloring gives a bitter taste.

pillog, that is some interesting back ground on the original cake! That makes more sense than a cake saturated with red dye!

I never did understand why dying it red made a cake anything but objectionable. There is no other instance where you would want to eat that much red dye!

I just dont get it about this cake and never did understand the appeal.

Just a note about cakes....I use buttermilk in all my cakes and everything that I bake. Buttermilk gives the very best rise and the most consistent crumb to a cake.

I dont bake many sweets and never cookies or pies, but I have recently been searching for the best old fashioned yellow sheet cake and finally settled on the ingredients and I used the method from ATK to assemble it and it gives a wonderful, moist cake with fine crumb.

For years i have been looking to find a go-to recipe for a yellow cake and I think I found it. Now I have both a yellow cake and a chocolate cake that are my go-to . The chocolate cake is the one on the back of the Hershesy cocoa box! It is a fabulous chocolate cake! Now, if i could just perfect a nice white cake. But, I bake very few sweet things. I did bake a yellow cake this week to try out a new oven. I cut it into small pieces and freeze it so that we cant take out small pieces when we want to.

Claudia, do you object to all food products that contain some form of dye?

Speaking for myself, I don't like the chemical flavor of commercial dyes, though I do use the vegetable ones occasionally. But dye is traditional for modern (post dyes coming to market) for red velvet cake. I just don't eat it.

Are you sure it's actually the cakes he remembers with such fondness, or the memories associated with the times the cake was served? Things are never as good as we remember them. Ever gone to a restaurant and had a memorable evening but next time you go back the food just doesn't taste as good? Even though you ordered the exact same thing? That's because of who you were with or what was said or done that evening -- that's what made it memorable, not the food, yet it's intertwined in the memory.

Also, the first time you taste something, it tickles your brain with new experience, which adds a lot to the pleasure of something good. With my mother's recipes, however, I've been able to recreate many beloved dishes from my childhood so they taste just right. I had to learn to make the cheese for Auntie S's blintzes, which my mother carefully taught me to make (with bought cheese, no longer available) as a teen, but now that I have the cheese, they are just right.

The hard part in this, I think, is not context or aging or differences in current ingredients, but is A's SO's inability to describe what ”right” tastes like. Replicating a memory is hard. Replicating it without a recipe or memory of making it is harder. Replicating it when it's someone else's memory and no recipe or info is nigh on impossible and I commend Amylou for trying!

Here is Southern Living’s vintage Caramel cake recipe, which sounds a lot like the one my mother made. I don’t remember her putting rum in the cake, but I can see where it would amp up the flavor a little. The frosting recipe is in a link within the cake recipe. It is cooked and then beaten.

Hmm - I do believe that remembered tastes will forever be elusive because of the very thing others have already mentioned - palates change as we age. Nowadays I enjoy a number of things I hated as a child because they had strong or bitter flavors. I understand our sense of taste also diminishes with age, which guarantees disappointment, I think.

I've never had either one of those cakes, but my mom used to regularly make my grandma's spice cake with penuche frosting that everyone loved.

FWIW, I add a pinch of fresh nutmeg to buttery, creamy recipes. It seems to enhance that flavor.

And carrot cake is the only cake I make cream cheese frosting for - it's my SO's fave so I usually make it for his birthday 🙂

Carol can you share the carrot cake recipe? Thanks.

Amy, they both sound really good.

Judi, no, I dont worry about such. I do realize that dye is in many things that you might not think about. But, I buy so little of anything that could be processed with dye, and that it is not of concern to me. I can honestly say that, to take an account of what is in my pantry or fridge would find very little, if any, of it. There are a few canned vegetables and flours, grains, rice, beans, etc but not much else. There are no mixes, no jello or packaged snacks, no candies or cans of premade icing, or cake mixes, or bottled sauces of any kind. No I dont avoid dye, per say. I just dont buy the kinds of things that normally contain any artificial coloring because they are just not part of my diet. When you shop the outer edges of the store you dont encounter this as much . The dye has to be processed into the product and that would be a processed food that I just dont buy because it not to my liking.

But, this cake has an excessive amount of it, for no darned good reason. Acutally I cant imagine any darned good reason why anyone would volunteer to consume that much red dye for no other reason than the fact that is very, very red. And you cant taste "red".

You first "eat with your eyes". But seeing brilliant red lets me know that this is not natural and probably not a solidly good decision to eat it.

I avoid artificial colors and flavors, in fact, I can't think of any highly processed foods that I buy.

Here you go, eld:

Agnes' Carrot Cake

(cake)

2 cups flour

1 tsp. salt - scant

1 tsp. nutmeg

1 tsp. cinnamon

1 1/2 tsp. baking soda

2 tsp. baking powder

1 cup oil

1 1/2 cups sugar

3 eggs

2 cup grated raw carrots

1 cup drained crushed pineapple - or - 1 cup grated raw apple + 2-3 tsp. lemon or lime juice

1 cup chopped nuts

***************************************

Directions:

Preheat oven to 325ºF

Sift together dry ingredients in a bowl.

Mix oil, sugar, eggs - add dry ingredients.

Add carrots, pineapple & nuts - mix well.

Pour into greased, floured bundt pan & bake 1 hour or until toothpick tests clean.

Bake cupcakes 25-30 minutes

Cool completely & frost w/ cream cheese icing.

(frosting)

8 oz. cream cheese @ room temp.

1box/1 lb. confectioner's sugar

1 1/2 tsp. vanilla

8 Tbsp. (1/2 cup) butter - softened

***************************************

Directions:

Cream together butter and cream cheese,. Add sugar & vanilla.

- beat well.

I often make cupcakes, and this recipe makes a lot of them, and I often use grated apple+ lemon or lime juice, since I rarely have pineapple on hand. They both work equally well. I've used part olive oil too, which makes it extra rich tasting.

Agnes is a dear family friend turning 100 (!) next week.

@ carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b , that's the same recipe I have used for decades, but I know it as "Mrs Bishop's carrot cake" :-D

Ha,colleen - Agnes got the recipe back in the 1970s from a friend, I think. I wonder how many others have it too?

I actually changed it a bit - original had more eggs and oil.

@ carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b , that would be about the time I first encountered the recipe in one of those ladies' club cookbooks where everyone submits their favourite recipes.

I often substitute applesauce for the oil and reduce the sugar a bit and it tastes just the same. I also always add a good handful of white raisins.

Buy a box....

Exactly what I would do in this case. And make home made Ermine frosting. (A side note--Ermine frosting was the topper for Waldorf Astoria cake.)

For all anyone knows, that cake from the past may well have been a Red Velvet box cake.

Haven't used box cake mixes in years but, when I did, Duncan Hines was the brand that I preferred.

Oh, John, I disagree with you 100%. I want honesty. If I've spent time and attention on something, I don't want someone to fib to me just to make me feel good. If it's a recipe, for example, if it's not top notch, I don't want to waste my time on it again, thinking that it's fabulous. Same with clothing or whatever. Tell me the truth.

I remember red velvet cake from the early 1960's. The original recipe did not call for cream cheese frosting. Rather is was a cooked frosting made with butter. Pinterest has the original recipe.

Sanders Bumpy Cake, chocolate!!! Sold at Kroger in the freezer!

Amylou, do let us know how the cake (or cakes) turn out. I’m dying to know if you try making both or just one.

I will only be attempting one or the other. I am leaning more towards trying the red velvet. Then again, I may just get overwhelmed and just order him a cake again this year. But as of now, I still want to try.

I took the whole week off of work, and besides a hair appointment and plans to troll every store in town in search of halloween decor and treats to begin this years hoard, Sos birthday is the only event on my books. So I will have time.

Amylou, what happened? With the cake.

"Sanders Bumpy Cake, chocolate!!! Sold at Kroger in the freezer!"

I bought one last week. Disappointed. It was so thin, I don't think the cake was even 1" thick (the cake itself, excluding the icing). Certainly not worth $15.99. I haven't had one in years, so I don't recall what the original was like before they changed bakers. Doubt I'll buy another one.

Made a mini version of each. Will elaborate more when I get to a desktop computer next week. It's painfully annoying to type here on my phone because of all the houzz quirks.

Cake Chronicles, The Update:

So I had my heart set on the red velvet. So I added the ingredients I would need to my grocery list and off I went. I do my normal grocery shopping at the Walmart Neighborhood Market. So as I am filling my cart, I head to the baking aisle. No cocoa powder. None. Huh? Okaaaaaay. Head over to the spices, in the same aisle to get red dye. Nope. They have blue, green yellow and black. The spot for red is empty, like the cocoa powder. Fine. I have to go to Publix after Walmart anyway, since I wont buy meat at Walmart, so I will just pick it up there. So I head over to get cream cheese for the frosting. I stare in disgust at the selection, which is NOTHING but that awful 1/3 less fat version. Yuck. I do not buy low fat or fat free dairy. Ever. ESPECIALLY for a celebratory occasion. GROSS! I am starting to question my resolve on the red velvet decision.

So I head to Publix. While they had the cocoa powder, they too were also out of red dye. And I discovered that the refrigerator section where the cream cheese and the like are kept are darkened and empty, I guess it was broken. So I threw my hands up, put the cocoa powder back, and grabbed a box of red velvet boxed mix, and a box of funfetti mix, a can of cream cheese frosting and a can of caramel frosting. I remembered that I used to make SO the funfetti cake with caramel frosting years ago and he really liked it. And I knew that I had the set of mini heart cake pans. So that's when I decided to just do a mini version of each cake, boxed and canned edition. So that is what I did. He loved both of them, which while I should have been pleased, annoyed me because I made the boxed red velvet years ago and he took exception to it, but all of a sudden now its great? GRRRRR. He did say it did not taste like the one he remembers, but he did enjoy it and ended up eating the whole of both cakes over a few days, which is VERY odd for him. So I count it as a success, even if I cheated my way to it.

After all of that you deserve the praise!

Take the win - you earned it!

I love a happy ending! Sorry you didn’t get to try to bake from scrarch, but hey, all’s well that ends well! Happy Birthday to youe SO. And the cakes are adorable!

Amy, my goodness, your day sounds like mine. He liked the cake. That is what counts, never mind the problems finding ingredients.

I never find everything at one store anymore. It is always a treasure hunt.

I was expecting the punchline to be that some church or youth group were doing a red velvet fundraiser and had bought up all the ingredients!

I think you had an even bigger success in that made with love especially for him is now the better cake than any dusty old memory. Congratulations on making him happy!

Today, I have been needing some things from Home Depot. I could not buy the plants through the app, but could get the batteries, tape measure, and fly traps. Ordered, ready for pick up at 9am today. Good? No! It took almost an hour. First, they did not answer the app. Then I called the service desk. That took another 30 minutes!

If I had felt like walking the store, I would of just shopped. Oh, they open at 6am, but curb pickup is not until 9am.

I use this recipe, its great! https://ktgatheringplace.weebly.com/cakes--pies.html