Excellent advice and thank you Yardvaark. I hadn't thought about the pergola shape. Good advice! I suppose we can use the umbrella that can accompany the table. The general notes I agree with completely. I was worried about that looping pinch. Consider that advice taken. I also agreed with the awkward space for planting, and the flow comment. I don't have a scale plan yet. But I do have the yard dimensions from our plat, where I can see that the total North-South space available is around 30 feet from the near south side of the patio (by your green p) to the far North fence (where your yellow much word is) . I do have the table dimensions: Table dimensions: 86" L x 42" D x 29" H Chair dimensions: 25.5" L x 22" D x 33" H The table image is uploaded. I'll google room for table dimensions and see what comes up as a general rule of thumb. I'm also wondering where to put the grill. The kitchen is in the middle rear of the house. The plat is linked to below Here is a link that might be useful: Plat

There are two types of grass used commonly in miami and florida in general. One of them is St. Augustinegrass, specifically the 'Floratam' variety and most people down there refer to their grass as just "Floratam". The other type of grass used there is Bahiagrass. St. Augustine is the more shade tolerant and desirable of the two. Bahia is really a forage grass that is better for cattle farms but not for home lawns as it is very ugly and grows too fast- 2" a day fast during summer. It also thins out over time and needs to be replaced. What you might do is post a photo here of the site showing us how shady it is because shade to someone in miami is not the same level of shade as to someone in boston. And also to show us what type of tree it is so we can determine if it is normal or dying. We can also see what type of grass is there currently and wether or not it needs to be replaced or if it is diseased or whatever. More likely than not the action plan will call for rehabbing the site by removal of what is there, perhaps laying some topsoil if needed to fill in any ruts, then laying new st. augustine. From what I understand there is a newer variety that is more shade tolerant called 'bitter blue' that you would have to special order but that may be the ticket. post a photo. And where do you hail from?

garycinchicago wrote: In such a shady area, why plant KBG rather than fine fescues? It's shady, but it still receives 3 hours full sun in the morning hours and 2 hours full sun in the evening hours with dappled shade throughout the day. I'm ok with Fescues but I'm in love with KBG and if it takes a little more TLC to keep it nurtured in such an environment, I'm ok with that... besides, I already have the seed. ;-p ------------------------------------------------------------ gardenfanatic wrote: That last picture makes me wonder if you might have grubs in that area also. That's actually the drainage and grading problem. That area is the convergence / "low" point between the (gradual) grading of my house and the (steep) grading of the dirt road about 15' behind it. During heavy rains that area fills up with water and compacts the soil completely. You can see all the moss that forms there because of it. To make the problem worse, I only have between 0-18" of red-clay soil on top of limestone and bedrock and that is one of those areas that is probably only 6" deep or less until you hit solid rock so I can't readily put french drains in there. It can be done, with a backhoe & jackhammer attachment - but as I have a slab foundation the jackhammer, that close to my house being concrete sitting on rock could break my damn foundation. Or at least I'm afraid it might, lol. I'm still searching for landscaping options for that area as I don't think grass will work well but I still want to try to improve it's general condition so that I don't flood out there as much.

You've got a lot of good advice to start you off. I'll add my 2 cents worth :-) My backyard is almost entirely shade except a bit in the center, which is now the only space where there is lawn. (See the link below to a thread on the Woodlands Gardening forum for pictures, plan and description of my shade garden...) The biggest problem with the shade garden here is mosquitoes! I do the vast majority of my gardening work in the spring before they come out of hibernation and again in the fall when they've gone back into hibernation. In mid summer, I relax and enjoy the garden largely from the shelter of the back porch! When I do my regular tree seedling patrols, I wear a bug shirt :-) By 'long needle pines' do you mean white pines? I have two and there are others on the neighbouring properies that affect us too. They are my favorite evergreens! The annual needlecast provides lots of lovely mulch - it all gets raked into the garden beds where it is left to rot down naturally to the benifit of the plants there. Directly under the skirt of the pines, Sweet Woodruff is the main planting. Closer to the edge of the canopy, other shade plants tolerant of fairly dry conditions e.g. perenial geraniums, brunnera, some ferns will do well. Hostas and Solomon's Seal make a nice combination in there as well. The list of shade plants you'll want in the garden is almost endless :-) Shade gardening is very rewarding - lots of beautiful plants and interesting combinations. Work out at least a rough idea of what you want to do and then get started. Mowing those weeds so you have a better feel for the space and conditions is a good thing to do while you're in the early stages of thinking about it as a garden rather than a weedy wasteland! Good luck. Here is a link that might be useful: shade garden