@davidro1: I posted this in the kitchen forum. Please provide the opinions there :-) Here is a link that might be useful: Thread in kitchen forum

Buehl, thank you so much for doing that alternate layout for me. It really helps to see it. I actually really like the way it looks (although I might move the wine tower to the south wall or ditch it). It allows the less attractive range and ovens to be out of the direct sightline and lets me have the back wall full of tall cabinets and appliances like in my first design. The funny thing is, as much as I like it aesthetically, it might not work as well for us. I expect the aisle between the north wall and the island will be a prime traffic area, especially if kids and guests have to walk to the far east end of the kitchen, past the range, to get drinks from the fridge. The east wall is probably a more protected spot for cooking at the range, and keeping the ovens in the southeast corner means they will not open into the middle of a major traffic path. Cheril27, my preference is to stand on the north side of the island while prepping, so I am facing south, but can easily look west into the other room. The sink may actually force me to work on the south side of the island where there is a longer, unbroken expanse of counter. I know GWers really like prep sinks, and I can see it being useful occasionally, but I also see it being in my way a lot, which is why I wanted to tuck it into a corner. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by moving the sink to the middle of the island. Do you mean moving it further down the north side, like where I show the trash pullout or drawers, or move it the center of the shorter east end? I figured having the prep sink on the south side of the island across from the big sink would be pointless, since the 2 sinks would not be very spaced out then. I do occasionally look for Gagg ovens on ebay. I noticed several GWers comment in other posts that the Gagg warranties do not start until install, but MIL was told by the person who handles sales of BSH appliances to employees that the warranties for Gagg, Thermador and Bosch start running when they are delivered to us, even if they sit in the garage for 5 months waiting to be installed. Thanks for reminding me about the 18" wine towers. I originally wanted one to the far right of the sink, since it would be very convenient to the dining room, but DH hates the idea of a 24" deep tall appliance in that spot. If he is standing at the clean-up sink, he does not want a "big, hulking thing" right next to him and blocking the view into the next room (never mind that there is a support wall there anyway). Sandn, what kind of prep sink do you have and where did you buy it? Breezygirl, I appreciate the feedback because it makes me think. Right now, I cook a few meals on weekends, and re-heat leftovers or take out on work nights. We do want to start cooking more though. It is funny to me how many times I have been told the prep spaces in my various plans are small, because to us, they are huge compared to what we have worked with the past decade. I do want to get things right with this kitchen though, as I hope we are in this house for many, many years. DH is so upset with me that I can't just pick one of the many design possibilities we have discussed and just stick with it. He tells me it will never be perfect (because I can't fit what I really want in our space) and I should just be happy with 85% perfect and move on with my life. We have always made whatever kitchen we have work, so he doesn't get why I am stressing over the best possible layout (despite the large amount of $ it will cost and the fact that we plan to live here for 20+ years). DH is really pressuring me to go with the revised design I posted yesterday and not make any more changes, even little ones that don't affect our appliance order like swapping the DW position. He is getting very upset with me for re-visiting design decisions that he considers have already been made. He thinks I am flooding our unborn child with negative stress hormones because of this remodel and agonizing over decisions. He said this morning we should either go with the design I already have (no more changes) or put a complete moratorium on kitchen design (i.e., I can't shop, discuss, or even think about (LOL) the kitchen) for at least 5 months. Of course, if we delay, we lose the 40% discount on appliances. Like I am not stressed out enough without ultimatums. The kitchen design started out as a fun research project and has just become a miserable task. The custom cabinet guy called me yesterday afternoon to see if he could pick up some magazine pictures I had mentioned and to see if I have made any decisions. At the time, I was feeling pretty good about my design (with the changes to the island) so I agreed to meet with him today (in about 1 hour). He will give me 3-D color renderings of my design and a quote for the cabinetry. If I keep making changes, he will also think I am nuts. The last kitchen design we did with him was much easier. It was a smaller kitchen with a decent layout, so we decided not to move the appliances more than a few inches to save costs. I did one sketch of the cabinets showing exactly how wide and tall I wanted everything, and that was it. Having a blank slate is so much harder.

Here's an idea that's similar to ZSmith's (I hope I didn't violate any of your constraints): No windows need to change nor does the basement stairs doorway. It uses most of your existing cabinets but does require a few new ones: -- Unused existing cabinets to be returned: Two 24" bases -- New cabinets: Two 12" bases, One 30" base, One 36" Upper, and One 18" wide base hacked to be a sink base (I don't think IKEA has 18" sink bases) No cooktop or sink in the island Decent aisles all around 4 seats - one in the island ("mom perch") and three in the peninsula Prep Zone faces Sitting Room/Playroom on the far right (insead of wall, pantry, or DR) Follows Kitchen Workflow Refrigerator --> Prep Zone & prep sink --> Cooking Zone & cooktop --> Cleanup Zone (dirty dishes) or Serving Zone (DR) Provides you with a Tea/Coffee Center. Landing space for the refrigerator is the Peninsula or Tea/Coffee Center - the peninsula would be preferred for prepping a meal; the Tea/Coffee Center for someone preparing a snack. It's not clear what you are planning for the entire space - with the Powder Room removed, I think that space could be (left-to-right): Dining Room Kitchen Play Room - while kids are small. When they hit their teens (or earlier), it could be a Homework/Computer Station (trying to keep the kids in a public place for monitoring online usage), Sitting Room, or other space The Living Room & Foyer are unchanged - including those very nice doorways. . . Zone Map: .

I'd prefer that the DW not be in the prime prep space between the sink and range, but with the locations of the windows, I don't think that can be changed. The fridge is too far from the sink--NKBA recommendation is 9' maximum between appliances. I like a side-loading pantry, for convenience, but I would put the fridge beside the beam, and create a coffee/snack/serving space to the left of the fridge, with MW in an upper cabinet, or a drawer model. That will keep snackers and grazers out of the work areas. That reduces the trash pull-out to ap 15". I flipped it to the left of the range, to make it closer to the sink area, but instead, you could put the trash to the right of the range, in the prep space. That would be ideal, but not as convenient to the fridge and snack area. Or, if you have a second pull-out under the sink, keep the trash next to the fridge. It just seems that it would be awkward trying to use a trash pull-out under the sink, while scraping dishes to load to an open DW. Since you would lose the side-loading pantry, could some of the shallow cabinets across the room be utilized as pantry space? NKBA guidelines ETA, an idea to put the DW to the right of the sink, with dish storage on the same side of the room. In this layout, helpers can unload the DW, or gather dishes to set the table, without interfering in prep and cooking tasks.