Thank you, Al! Yes, that's it exactly! If I'm not entirely sure a plant needs watering, I wait an extra day or two. I'd rather the medium get a little bit too dry than too wet. Dry can be corrected with a good soaking, but wet is wet, and only time and the evaporation process can correct it. Wicking... inserting wicks into your pots before planting them, and letting them dangle out the drainage holes... can help draw out any excess water that might sit perched. Again, Al can explain exactly how they work, but the idea is to fool the water into thinking it can go further, that there's more medium to saturate... or at least, I think that's the idea. :-) I have not used wicking as of yet, but I do intend to in some of the larger planters I'll be filling this year. If I'm off base on any issues, I apologize... I only want to offer help in the form of what I've learned and the experiences I've had. What I do know for a certainty is that the concept of a larger particulate used as a planting medium is very sound... especially when we understand the exact purposes medium serves, and what happens under the soil surface where roots are concerned. Healthy roots make for healthy plants!

Sometimes I like to dig furrows in a shady location. Long trenches about a shovels depth. Heeling all the plants into the trench and slightly covering them with soil. If for any reason an emergency comes up I have taken the responsibility of creating a nursery to baby-sit my root stock and help the excess foliage wanting to wilt. Do this to warm up youre muscles when calm and the morning hours are still cool. You'll thank yourself if the weather turns hot and plants that you couldnÂt get divided and transplanted for another day or two were left to bake. Summer is here. In this way you can set the pace of work. DonÂt let the garden dictate when you are needing to rest the body. By preparing this way you can retire early and prepare dinner or tend to aching muscles. Gardening can be enjoyable with the heeling of plants while renovating large beds. If you need to quit in the middle of the project for a few days time you add more soil literally planting the heeled plants. Water them heavily. Just be neat when trenching. Clean work is rewarding when in a rush at the end of a long day. Keep all the soil piled neatly along one side of the trench. So it can be pulled back easily atop the plants. At least this will give you time if preparing new beds means cultivating unexpected hard soil. Sounds odd but I sometimes keep a kiddy pool full of water. So I can wash out the soils of tuberous roots and divide them rapidly. Once again if IÂm leaving for an emergency plants like Triadescantia Spiderwort (IÂve never spelled that one corrctly)Â.you get the idea. Some plants can sit in water for a week. Happy and able to keep thier foliage strong. When IÂm working with woodland types such as Trilliums, Gaultheria, Troutlillies, Bloodroot, Solomons Seal, Jack in the Pulpit, Ferns, etc I have a low dividing and or transplanting death rate using the pool with enough cool water out of sunlight . Some of the old gardens IÂve worked in have these woodland perennials as part of the gardens content and they are the aristocrats of pampering.I work with them like a florist cuts stems underwater. Some needing a bucket full of soil from underneath a particular tree like a hemlock grove to be reworked into the new beds soil. Any way youre perennials are easier. The key in my opinion if you are designing on the whim is preparing trenches to heel youre stock in case of mental block or physical exhaustion. Make sure they are well watered for the week in advance if no rain is in sight. With very large rootstock perrenials I'll leave the hose overnight on a slow drip like run to soak the plant like a true rain would. That is for the ones I really like. Such as when Transplanting Japanese maples I use this method of slow soaking. That helps. I like to cut squares of burlap of different sizes. Many in fact. So I can place a perrenials rootball atop the square and lift the plant easily. Keeps the lawn clean also carrying around plants. Summer plantings can require unsightly wells for each grouping or individual plant. This will be invaluable come summer drought and heat. More so in Virginia. I keep a pole or thin crowbar and poke a few holes around the well as I water. Sticking the hose into the hole and soaking the soil from bottom up. Cinching the hose to limit the flow of water so as not to rush water out of the hole poked by the bar. Its slow but the air pockets get saturated with water. I never liked pounding the surface with water knowing the bottom of the plant might still be dry. This is great for kids to try. They love mudpies. And its a good way to reming plants need care and water. On another note: I spent my summers in Virginia with my mothers parents. My grandmother was a gardener and painter. She had to deal with those hot summer days and nights with that orange clay soil that would bake like a potters kiln. A big change from the North East garden she tended. Near Roanoke, Town of Huddleston across from Lynchburg. Smith Mountain Lake. Appalachian Power Company Dam Project. Virginia makes my heart ache. I miss her. Appalachian trial. Chatanooga River and North- South Carolina into Georgia. What a magical place. And the round bails of straw! Used to hide in those when the farmer would come chasing me and a friend occasionally shootin Rock salt from a shot gun. WeÂd be taking all his catfish from the cattle pond. To make up for his large sized stock weÂd put little ones from the lake into the pond. Mr. Wilkerson.Âs pond. Surrounded by hundreds of acres of Tobacco, Corn and straw fields. I donÂt know who the guy that was shooting was. Never really got a good look since it was always in the night. I still think it was the guy adjacent to the farm or down the road.. IÂd see him fishing the same pond during the morning daylight. I could recognize that hunched over back form from the night silhouette. We were a crazy pair of kids about fourteen years old.. Picking Tobacco worms off the plants all day., Placing Tobacco into the slated wood inside the barn to cure for pocket money. That stuff burnt a whole in my cheeks chewing it half dried. WeÂd pocket a bunch of leaves for the nights fishing. The closest store was an hours drive more or less. To far to walk. Pass time spitting.Cicadas and lightning bugs. I swore I caught more catfish spitting tobacco juice onto my chicken liver and bread. Sometimes the mosquitoes were so bad we would leave the poles and bury ourselves into the round straw bails.Falling asleep not realizing a light rain passed through. Untill a lightning crashed our sleep. Lightning seems to have a livlier personality while cruising across Virginia Farmland. Like its waiting to get you. After a while we kept one bail as our secret stash of fishing gear. Kept the cooler inside to. We were typical mischevious adventerous boys. But my friend was another local farmers son so at leat my Yankee butt had some protection. And he made sure I learned the local slang over those years so as to fit in. It sucked to come back to N.Y. where the kids never understood the finer parts of growing up. The better half of the English language. Southern accents made me feel like I'd live a longer life. That laid back tommarows a new day attitude. My N.Y. friends all went to summer camps. While I was living a summer like a by gone era. We even used Mr Wilkersons Outhouse. He had no plumbing and was a millionaire. He liked me. And for A while I hated Yanks just keep him from finding out I was a yank. Everyone including adults were afraid of him. He disliked the D.C. folk and New Yorkers buying up his lakefront land. His lots a few years later were fetching two hundred thousand dollars each. . Around 1992. He was smart and wealthy.But I wish to this day he could have kept his land. I saw the pain in his eyes to see the others moving onto his familly land. Guess me being a kid he adopted me as a local kid.I had the tanned skin and orange stained shoes to look like the rest. Along with the fresh cured tobacco hanging out of pockets. Never asking where I was from. Making me feel at home.Sitting on his front porch the local newcomers who bought his land were in disbelief to see me with him. They never spoke to him after the sale of land. But went rushing over to my Grandparents to rat me out. They didnt like most of the locals. But acted like fakes when face to face. Saying hello and being all proper. Funny how adults acted looking back at those summer months gone by. Mr. Wilkerson wanted nothing to do with those rude obnoxious people. And in that sense I felt the animosity still pent up from the civil war. He was honest. He let me know that the South still is proud and alive. A way of life. I felt what books couldnt ever teach. I was an impressionable youth. But my Grandparents were New yorkers retired on his land so I was fearfull to talk. I always just sat quietly. Looking out into the fields. Letting Mr. Wilkerson talk on the rare occasion. And I now feel like the luckiest kid from New York to meet Old Mr. Wilkerson who was a southern gentleman. I understood then how silence means being respectfull of the other persons viewpoint. I was silent out of fear. But I learned a southern viewpoint on Northerners buying up the soil his family and generations before had tilled. That must be like adding salt to old wounds. I miss the South. Hope my grandparents donÂt read this. My summers in Virginia were quite peaceful months to their recollection. Sorry for the lengthy post. Gardening is giving so many flashbacks of past experiences I want to let them loose. Ricky.

· Posted by: hnwillis z8 SC (My Page) on Thu, Nov 29, 01 at 15:22 Ya'll gotta be some of the funniest people. After going through the ordeal of many a gardenia suicides, I decided it was time to plant them outside (great humidity and heat-Z8 SC). I hate to say this but two years ago I planted 2 gardenia plants on the northwest side of my house. They have been doing just fine. They are just at 2-3 feet tall. I have pruned them together this past sprng into a low hedge next to my white picket fence. I have planted the trimmings amongst a groundcover of Gerbera Daisies in a 24 inch plastic pot that I also planted a 10 ft crooked willow tree on the southside of my house. I also put some trimmings into small pots with cheap Wal-Mart garden soil. To my surprise, they have taken root and are growing like crazy. I put one particular cutting into a pot by itself to be able to bring in the house. I left it outside all spring and summer (it rained constantly when I first planted them). This one stayed in 5 inches of water/dirt for 2 months. I have brought the sole potted plant into my sunroom and placed it inside a miniture greenhouse. I doesn't seem to be growing like it did outside. I'm really thinking that it likes to be outdoors in humidity, heat and southern exposure. Go figure? So from 1 pruning of two plants I have successfully propagated 10+ little ones. I can't wait until they bloom. Also, the main idea for planting them outside is that my neighbor has a 10 ft tall, 7 ft wide "gardenia bush" that is heavenly when it blooms. I have taken pictures of it because people don't believe me. I know she doesn't do anything special to any of her plants. One thing we do have in common is acidic clay soil which our azaleas and camellias seem to thrive on. · Posted by: bedou z10 Ft. L. Fl (My Page) on Fri, Dec 7, 01 at 1:15 Its 1:09 in the morning. My laughter must have woken my husband up, so I suppose I should put the kettle on! From a nude plot of land in Ft. Lauderdale, I have tried to fill it up with fragrant choices. Yes, Gardenia included. Its yellow leaves tend to give me a good contrast against all those green ones that are flourishing. Alas, they tend to fall off, so I just use them as mulch where they land. Time to find something else! I certainly shall not spend time agonizing over it, from what you have all said. Oh well, I had such high hopes!!! Joanmary · Posted by: fpogoda 5 N NJ (My Page) on Mon, Dec 17, 01 at 12:21 Just wanted to be sure regarding the indoor gardenia temp. issue: is the optimum temperature 70 degrees during the day, then 55 degrees at night? Thanks · Posted by: yugoslava 6 ) on Sat, Dec 29, 01 at 20:56 I have been fairly successful with azaleas and rhododendrons and wonder if it would be possible to keep gardenia dormant over winter and bring it out in spring, plant it among rhodos and leave it until it gets cold. I have admired gardenias from afar for the longest time, but I knew indoor conditions in the winter were not the best, so I have never had one to call my own. Would it be possible to keep gardenia cool over winter as I do with my fig tree and brugmansia? The scent is absolutely intoxicating! One word about people who live in warm or coastal areas. You have no trouble growing tropical plants which we can only see when we take tropical vacations for which we have to pay dearly. I live in Great Lakes Region with short seasons but we all dream of exotic plants growing luxuriantly indoors. Which is why we fret and fuss endlessly. · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Tue, Jan 8, 02 at 10:16 This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read at the GardenWeb. I laughed so hard I could hardly talk and had tears in my eyes!! I printed out the whole thread to share with other pour souls who have tried to grow Gardenias according to all the best recommendations, only to watch them wither away. We have a Gardenia growing on a slight slope in alkaline clay soil under a Japanese Black Pine tree. It gets mid-to-late sun. It gets watered whenever we run the lawn sprinklers. It isn't the most prolific plant we grow, but at least it's alive and produces some blooms for us each year. The success is probably due to the fact that my husband is the one who cares for it, and he is not a by-the-book gardener... he just waters whenever he thinks the lawn needs water, feeds it when he remembers (I think the last time was about 2 years ago), etc. LOL!!! · Posted by: Rosalie 5-6 salt lake (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 02 at 11:30 this thread is hilarious! and now famous -- a link to it is posted at the garden party forum, so some of us have wandered over to check out your battles -- i believe i will stick with xeric types -- no chicken dances for me -- thanks for the laughs! and good luck to all -- rosalie · Posted by: ccl38 8A Savannah, GA (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 15:59 I too have had trouble with vetchii. Mine was so large and so heavy with blooms I decided to prune it. We couldn't get past it down the walk. Once prunned it went into a decline and it has never been the same. I have another variety that I rooted about three years ago from a large bush growing at the edge of the swamp near where I work. It is mostly in shade, never gets watered and would probably measure 5 feet, and it has those huge saucer size blossoms and smells wonderful. I don't shake a chicken so I guess I must have held my mouth right when I planted it. They are my favorite plant. For me it is a pass along plant. I root them all summer and give them to anyone who comes along and wants one. · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 19:23 cc 138 you must have 'the magic touch'Well done, and I say that with honest envy. The question is, are you ready, willing and able to produce 75-+ rooted cuttings from a 'proven' specimen with the right karma, one for each of the above postings, to restore our faith in this plant and to bring aid and comfort to all of us who have been brought down by this picky, picky plant? lol!!! Joanmary · Posted by: Lily 5 IL (My Page) on Fri, Jan 18, 02 at 21:16 I got a Gardenia "Veitchii" last January as a gift, loaded with buds. Looking for culture info I found this thread. Aftering reading everyone's experience, I thought I was going to kill it for sure. I held my breath when I was anywhere near it. I misted it daily and then decided not to mist after my hard water left ugly mineral stains on the leaves. More then half of the buds dropped and it refused to bloom indoor! It got a lot of half yellowed leaves before I dragged it outside in late Spring. It thrived outside and bloomed! In the mean time I got hooked on orchids. I started using the leftover orchid water (rain water with 1/4 strenth of fertilizer and a drop of Superthrive/per gallon) to water the gardenia. It's been growing like crazy! Now it's back in the house in front of my south facing window, and in bloom! It's in a 12" plastic pot and about 2 feet tall. Maybe it's the rain water or the superthrive, but there is definitely hope for all gardenia lovers! · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Sun, Jan 20, 02 at 13:40 So that's the trick... "water with leftover orchid water". Why don't the gardening books say that?!? LOL! · Posted by: Lali z9, 18, So Cal (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 02 at 15:16 I can't believe how long this topic has gone on for. It is sooo hilarious! Anyway, I'm trying my first attempt to grow gardenias. I put them in the backyard (northern exposure) with ferns and azaleas, so I'm hoping they will be ok. Now that I've read this post, I'm really really really skeptical that they will bloom or even live by my hand. Thanks for the laugh! Lali · Posted by: freesias Z9 ) on Tue, Feb 19, 02 at 23:35 Oh My GOD! I just planted THREE 1 gal. 'Veitchii' gardenias in my front yard mixed border. I have a feeling, my are gonna DIE on me. I am definitely not touching these guys! Will water once every couple of weeks. THAT'S IT!!!! · Posted by: susan_CA z9 CA ) on Sun, Feb 24, 02 at 16:05 What a great thread! Gardenia culture is such a thrill of success/agony of defeat experience. Anticipating an unknown failure rate, I bought 6 'Veitchii'! The two planted directly under a tree (where I wanted to sit) and northern foundation exposure died. The two planted in eastern foundation exposure with shade mid-day on bloom copiously all summer. The two planted in western foundation exposure, where light tree shade relieves afternoon heat after 4pm do almost as well. All get composted manure in early spring, pine needle mulch, half-strength chelated minerals whenever leaves begin to pale or MirAcid if I think of it, water from sprinkler system early a.m. (including on leaves) daily in summer in the hot, dry central valley, and have FAST drainage. The two that died were in locations with slower drainage and more shade. The only year I had some bud drop was the year we had a late, wet spring, but they bloomed fine all summer. I have seen specimens in full sun in the central valley; they bloom well, but leaves & blossoms show sunburn damage. So I'm going with the sun/shade, wet/dry, feed/not theory. · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 0:42 Oh my, oh my! The woman at the nursery said I could have an indoor gardenia in my east-window-garden (morning sun, high level of light the rest of the day), but it sounds like she forgot to tell me I'd need to install a swamp for it, as well. I certainly have plenty of heat for it, here on the low desert. I may be joining the ranks of the guilty gardenia group: I'm not likely to "mist" the miserable thing, nor am I likely to change my habits in on-going care (I am sadly irregular about watering and feeding my only other plant--a low-maintenance Madagascar Palm--dracena). I prepared the soil well enough though (a standard potting soil mixed with half-again as much peat moss), I placed the plant "high" in the middle of the pot, added a layer of peat moss on the top, and covered it all with some additional organic mulch, watered it in with an "acid" feeding, and set it above a large, relatively deep saucer with plenty of water for evaporation. I may have misunderstood the nursery lady's comment about the roots, though, because I removed a great deal of the soil from the root ball and treated the roots with hormone before placing it in the new pot and soil mix. I read in the messages above that this plant may not have liked that messing about with its roots. I believe I'll acquire one of those devices that gives a reading of the humidity, to see just how dry my window garden area really is. We'll see what happens. While I may be capable of sustaining this thing's life for a short while, after reading all of this, I'm not planning on much success with it. I tend to move on to other projects, and I'm afraid the poor thing will have to shift for itself more than it is constitutionally capable. Of course, reading about the success of those who largely ignored their gardenia gives me some hope. That's more my style. At least I have a good excuse for turning the AC down to 70 starting in April. I just don't think the local power usage police are going to understand it when I tell them that my astronomical power draw is necessary for the health of a plant. This is going to be expensive emotionally and monetarily. Who would have thought a trip to the nursery would result in such bondage? · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 13:16 Oh, what a wonderful laugh this has been! My poor old gardenia is there in Florida, with no one to care for it, depending on the sprinkler system to 'do its thing' and I have no clue what is happening to it. However I have my dark moments when I can see the Christmas lights decorating its bare twigs come December! Taking it that I will be using its twigs as mulch sometime soon, I have bought as a replacement, the African Gardenia. Now I wonder if this is in the same category? Here's to Gardenias who can take neglect!! · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Sat, Mar 9, 02 at 15:31 I discussed my newly acquired gardenia issue with my elder sister who, smirking, told me it would probably do me good to have something to worry about. I can only think she was being complimentary about my faultless children and long-ago departed harpy of a wife. She herself has a half-dozen off-spring who provide her with plenty of heart-rending despair. Just in case she was being a smart-ass though, I bought my plant an ultrasonic humidifier which pumps 2.6 gallons of water vapor into the air each day, and I hurried to the used book store and increased my holdings in James Lee Burke (setting: southern Louisiana). I suppose I could have picked up some Faulker, as well, but he's so damned hard to read. I can't stand Tennessee Williams. I am thinking that a few dark and decadent thought-waves might make the gardenia feel a little more at home here in the bright, parched protestant desert southwest. Although it's only been a couple of days, I'm sure it's looking a little better than when I brought it home from the nursery; but just the same, I'm going to keep my eye on a new leaf that is looking a little yellowish. I don't want my dear sister to have the last laugh. · Posted by: BarbC coastal SC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 12, 02 at 15:53 LOL - I have tears rolling down my face and flooding the den. I have 2 unknown variety gardenias that I bought at HD 4 years ago. Since then, I have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to them and yet they thrive. They survived the great flood of '99 (were under 6 FEET of nasty swamp/river water and were still green 3 months later when the water finally went away) They were only 1ft tall at the time, so literally had 5ft of nasty black water on top of them. I even had to pick dried toilet paper off them, as the flood had taken the contents of 1000 septic tanks along its path. Those two gardenias and the roses were the only plants to survive that mess. Anyway, once I could finally walk through my yard again (without sinking up to my eyeballs in slimy mud) I dug those suckers up and moved them to my new (dry) house (roses too). They are still there and doing beautifully in full southern afternoon sun. I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING special to them. I don't even ater then during droughts. Maybe that's the secret? The guy across the street has a couple and he also does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to his and his are even nicer than mine. Perhaps we are killing these plants with kindness? Maybe what they really want is to just be left alone?

Linda, thank you) I hardly use tap water on those sensitive plants like that, never on my orchids unless I rinse all the roots off with rain water or distilled. I am not sure of your water but in my area my tap water is pretty bad and that combined with fertilizer stinks. You should see the top of my fish tank if I don't clean it for a month or the sides of my clay pots. horrible. Even with using the 5.1.1 mix which I find works better for my gardenia's than any 1.1.1 mix other than the one Al uses to the T. The Granite Grit for me always worked better than substitutes to keep the mix evenly moist from top to botttom. The bigger the particles you use, the more in tune you should be with the drying out process especially at the root zone. I have found that mine required high light especially in winter and a moving fan. Not so much humidity although they do love it. I also treat for spider mites whether I see them or not. Trust me, they are a lot of work to keep inside and happy in or out in a pot, but once they do like your attention, they will thrive. Tropic never dissappoints in advice and I woud do as suggestet. The humidity will help it recover better than without it and giving it more air to prevent disease and less condesation is a help. Val also said it would take time and that is not an understatement. Once the roots are dead, it can take a very long time to recover. As long as you can scratch green on those branches your gardenia should be ok. Are you certain you know how to water in the gritty mix? Because I have over watered many plants and under watered too. At any time you can not afford to let the roots of a gardenia go very dry while the roots start to occupy the fresh mix. I would use a wooden dowel and push it into the root zone and check for moisture. I never trusted my watering in it. Make sure you are keeping the top roots moist before they fill in that pot. As we know it's almost impossible to over water or fertilize in a 1.1.1 mix. If it were my gardenia I would give it a weak solutin of fertilizer with a capful of vinegar every time I water if it's getting that much light and warmth. That would help any of mine to recover faster. Too,as you can tell there is so much involved with growing a gardenia in a pot, that's why many bypass those, and it can be very frustrating along with nerve racking. Almost like ocd ing on it,lol. It's not easy loosing any plant you like. But do what you think is right with the support of all the good people here, sit back and relax, give your tree time and I am sure it will come back. Any more help needed, we are always here)