I have read with interest general info on resistant starches. I've not seen specifics so I still avoid potatoes and rice. Have never run across any info pertaining to freezing bread and exactly how much of a change to expect.. Could you please cite your source?

Sure, there's tons of it, and it's not new (just new-ish to me).

• https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/well/eat/resistant-starch-pasta-rice-leftovers.html?unlocked_article_code=1.ak0.gwcJ.YK5gC-nTUspy&smid=url-share (no paywall)
• https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/carbohydrates-and-diabetes/carbs-and-cooking
• https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17426743/ (about bread in particular)
• https://bnnbreaking.com/lifestyle/food/freezing-bread-can-enhance-health-benefits-reveals-md-and-nutritionist-dr-amy-shah/

How much of a change depends on the type of starch, and the amount of processing it's gone through before the cooling, so it will vary. There's lots of sources on line, so I chose a mix with variable amounts of scientific detail.

Interesting...I'd not heard this before. Figures in that fresh bread always tastes better than after it's been frozen. Seems with food, the more I like it, the worse it is for me!

Interesting. We buy 3 loaves of bread once a week from an artisan baker. We eat one loaf fresh and the rest from the freezer. We have no reason to avoid carbohydrates but it can't hurt. Btw the flavour doesn't seem to deteriorate.

I went looking for more current research, am not finding much on actual specifics that would show charts with actual % of specific foods and their glycemic decline after refrigeration, which would be important for us diabetics in making choices.

I used to love cold leftover pizza. Wouldn't it be wonderful if it had a meaningful glycemic drop?

I've just read an article in The Atlantic about unintended results of these weight loss drugs. The drugs reduce *appetites* beyond food -- like appetites for alcohol, drugs, even shopping. They don't really affect hunger, as intended. Hunger has receptors in the small intestine and lower colon, but the drugs act on appetites in the brain, not the gut.

If a physician advises a patient to minimize blood sugar spiking foods, why would rice, potatoes and pasta be eaten and not avoided? Avoidance is 100% effective.

I challenge the suggestion that freezing improves the flavor of any food. It's a method of food preservation not preparation.

" unintended results of these weight loss drugs "

If you're talking about the new class of drugs like Ozempic, another unintended consequences is chronic nausea and vomiting......the drugs slow stomach emptying, and for some people it can result in the stomach essentially refusing more food by inducing vomiting.

It is an interesting thought. I wear a cgm that checks my blood every few minutes. Reheating rice or pasta definitely results in a lower spike for me. I thought that cooling was all that was required. I will have to experiment with pre frozen bread and glucose spikes. I might also experiment with pre frozen rice versus refrigerated.

If you are OK with it, I'd love to see some of your numbers. I myself might experiment with leftover refrigerated pizza.

I challenge the suggestion that freezing improves the flavor of any food. It's a method of food preservation not preparation.

I don't think anyone is saying that freezing improves flavor (although I have heard that flash frozen vegetables such as green beans compare favorably with harvested vegetables that have not been prepared for a few days after harvesting, and that freezing bread slows the staling process, both as you point out referring to preservation). I think for the purposes of this thread, the refrigeration/freezing is a method to increase resistant starch.

I was discussing oatmeal in another thread, and Elmer mentioned that steel cut oats have a lower glycemic value than rolled oats. I tested that on myself and it is true for me. However, steel cut oatmeal takes significantly longer to prepare than oatmeal from rolled oats. So I made enough steel cut oatmeal for 4 days and froze some of it. I had some of the frozen, rewarmed oatmeal for breakfast today, and while I realize this is only one day, tested three times at 45 minute intervals, and all results were within normal levels (not within the expected levels for pre-diabetic or diabetic people, but levels expected for normal non diabetic people).

Thanks lucille, I may have misunderstood a comment.

For frozen veggies, don't confuse the process with the product. It's true that flash frozen, just picked produce (of the better-quality brands) can extend the time frame for customers to enjoy peak quality, often better than what's available fresh. Freezing is the means. A fresh, top quality item will always be better than a fresh, lower quality item, whether both are frozen or both are fresh.

I don't like freezing food and we don't freeze anything at home. Flavor and quality only deteriorate with freezing. I'd rather discard spoiled food than try to resuscitate and be disappointed with something that was home frozen.

We buy some frozen veggies and some frozen or previously frozen fish (frozen to allow transportation from more distant harvest areas) and the odd Trader Joes novelty item here and there, but not much else. We try to take advantage of seasonal availability and enjoy what is fresh. Where I am, items like large scallops, North Atlantic cod, and other seafood items come from the opposite coast or beyond and are only available as frozen or thawed (described as "previously frozen") and so be it.

Thanks for the personal experience, lucille.

Elmer, I see why you didn’t continue your career at Baskin Robbins! 😉

Interesting about the resistant starch and glucose response with cooling and freezing. I’ll be sure to tell my diabetic (among many other things) MIL who for some reason keeps eating the sorts of foods that virtually every diet advises against.

I don't like freezing food and we don't freeze anything at home. Flavor and quality only deteriorate with freezing.

I understand what you are saying. But the choice we are discussing here is not a choice that you, a normal person, would need to think about. Depending on how much refrigerating/freezing might reduce the glycemic index of a particular food (as far as I know the research is not far enough along to offer an idea of exactly how much of a drop this might be) the choice might be having (just as an example) a potato which has been frozen and is of possibly lesser quality because of the freezing but which has a lower glycemic index because of the resistant starch, or not having a potato at all.

I just thought that I would mention this because it is relevant to the topic. I am not diabetic or pre diabetic but I do use a cgm. I sometimes eat in sequence in an effort to reduce spikes. Do any of you do that? I eat in the following order: salad with vinegar based dressing, high fiber vegetable or beans, protein, carb, and then any sweets. I find when I eat in this order carbs don't have as much of an impact.

lucille, my thoughts about frozen or freezing food came from your mentioning vegetables. I understand and had read about the resistant starch effect. But I still wonder why anyone whose medical condition (and indeed health) requires monitoring or being careful about blood sugar levels would dance around the issue of avoiding what some refer to as white carbohydrates.

" I am not diabetic or pre diabetic but I do use a cgm "

Why?

the issue of avoiding what some refer to as white carbohydrates.

White carbs are only harmful because of their high glycemic index. If that equation is changed and by refrigerating/freezing they morph into an acceptably lower indexed food, they can be included as appropriate for their index.

White carbs like white rice and refined wheat flour products are calorie dense while being relatively lower in nutritional value than alternatives. There's no need for analysis or science to know that avoiding them is a plus for a multitude of reasons.

If you encounter a poisonous snake in your yard and call a snake rustler to "take it into custody", tell the rustler to remove it rather than put it on your front porch. You know that having a snake there isn't good for your health and it can be easily avoided, in such a case.

White carbs like white rice and refined wheat flour products are calorie dense while being relatively lower in nutritional value than alternatives. There's no need for analysis or science to know that avoiding them is a plus for a multitude of reasons.

Wheat, rice, and potatoes are calorie dense and low cost and as such provide needed calories for much of the world. If they can morph from being unsafe to being safe for those with diabetes, there is no need for further analysis to realize that having a choice can be a plus for many.

@Elmer Fudd

I use a cgm as a guide to making better food selections based on how my body responds to them. They are becoming more and more popular among non diabetics. My husband also wears one and it is interesting how a particular food can cause a spike in me but not him or vv. I am not a huge pasta fan but Barilla protein pasta does not cause a spike for me. If I am going to eat pasta then that is what type I would select based on data from my cgm. There are several alternatives I have made as a result of wearing it.

" Wheat, rice, and potatoes are calorie dense and low cost and as such provide needed calories for much of the world. "

Do such people have access to this information or food options or freezers?

" Wheat, rice, and potatoes are calorie dense and low cost and as such provide needed calories for much of the world. "

Potatoes are a very nutrition food with a very wide spectrum of nutrients......Energy, protein (including all 9 essential amino acids), vitamin C, potassium, iron, vitamin B6, and fibre. If you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, you'd live longest eating potatoes.

" My husband also wears one and it is interesting how a particular food can cause a spike in me but not him"

Isn't that fascinating? I was talking to someone at work (spouse of a diabetic) about that yesterday. I'm currently wearing a CGM because I want to know if hypoglycemia is the cause of my frequent cold flushes; i figure 10-14 days of data should tell me yes or no.

" If you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, you'd live longest eating potatoes."

I doubt this is correct. A potato has very little protein, an essential nutrient.

What is your source, besides wanting to disagree?

TV, and anyone else with an interest, please help with input, I want to do a pizza experiment. (FOAS, your MIL could do the experiment along with me, as can anyone else with a glucometer or CGM).

I can either:

Order Domino's medium sausage pepperoni, about 200g carbs or

Order Domino's thin crust sausage pepperoni, about 100g carbs or

Bake a lower glycemic pizza, half whole wheat flour and half oat flour.

Carbs to be determined but what is important here are not specifically the carbs, but the hoped for drop in glycemic index after being refrigerated overnight. Domino's has higher glycemic flour but the experiment is more easily replicable. I would eat several pieces for dinner and then test my glucose 3 times 45 minutes apart, then the same number of pieces for breakfast testing at the same intervals, and compare.

TV, I love that you started this thread.

lucille, I would love to see those results. As has already been said in this thread, the glucose response of any food will vary between individuals, but I love the idea. I'm going to order a Pizzaville pizza this weekend and try it. It shouldn't matter what you order, as long as you eat the same pizza for both meals.

" I doubt this is correct. A potato has very little protein, an essential nutrient.

What is your source, besides wanting to disagree?"

It doesn't have a lot of protein, but what protein it does have is very balanced. Another shortcoming is that potatoes don't have enough fat. It's not a perfect food, and I didn't say a person would live well or for decades - I said they'd live longer than if they chose any other food to live on.

There was a man in Australia who ate nothing but potatoes (different varieties including sweet potatoes) for a year, and emerged nutritionally OK and happier (his reasons were interesting: weight loss and breaking a food addiction). This article does a nice summary of the pros and cons of his venture: "[potatoes] contain a wider range of amino acids, vitamins and minerals than other starchy foods, such as pasta or rice. If he had chosen a single animal-derived food, he would have had no fibre in his diet and a poor intake of various vitamins, minerals and antioxidants. Fruits and non-starchy vegetables are very low in protein and fat, meaning he would have to plough through a huge amount to get enough sustenance. "

https://theconversation.com/can-you-survive-eating-nothing-but-potatoes-54262

I think I will order a regular Domino's pizza. Their thin crust is sort of crispy and dry. Idk exactly why I think this but I'm thinking that somehow moisture might be involved in the production of resistant starch; nothing I have read so far has ever mentioned that refrigerating a bag of flour or dry rice would produce resistant starch.

" nothing I have read so far has ever mentioned that refrigerating a bag of flour or dry rice would produce resistant starch. "

That's because they have to be cooked first, so they become digestible in the small intestine, before cooling makes them resistant to digestion in the small intestine. Dry flour or rice isn't digestible anyway, so it wouldn't affect a glycemic spike and couldn't be made less digestible by refrigeration.

The type of resistant starch it creates is "retrograde" resistant starch, and retrogradation is the process of changing the chemical structure of these molecules through cooling There are other types of resistant starch, such as that in lima beans or green bananas.

" It's not a perfect food, and I didn't say a person would live well or for decades "

What you said was:

" If you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, you'd live longest eating potatoes "

Your link is another demonstration that 1) one can find anything on the internet if enough time is spent searching , and 2) you often pay no regard to whether information is from a credible source or not so long as it allows you to argue. In this case, the article is a fluffy piece written by a journalist intended to entertain and lacking any substantive citations.

Bye.

Oooh, Elmer got her feelings hurt!

Not at all. No more troll-like baiting from you.

Elmer's a her? I always wondered.

" Elmer's a her? I always wondered. "

Who knows for sure (other than Elmer)? We all have our guesses, but except for regulars who've posted pictures of themselves, no one really knows.

I think it’s pretty clear he’s a he.

I'm stupefied by that comment.

Here's a recent photo:

ha ha ha love it.