I have never seen a lead pan first hand in a shower but run across lead flashing and W/C flanges all the time restoring old homes and doing renovation work here in Vancouver. Lead is a great product for it's strength and its ability to bend and not crack. That said we don't use it anymore and recycle our demo waste and make sure that shavings and demo work is keep well away from young ones. Building a shower pan is easy. All the information is easily found online. Read up on the best techniques to build this. Stay away from Wood as a building material for the curb. This is a poor choice and with a little searching you will find many examples of failed wood built curbs. Banging in a few 2"x4"'s is the most basic of techniques and doesn't factor into the picture woods characteristics of shrinking and checking while it dries. Sometimes budget and time line insist that wood be used. If this is the case purchase Export Grade or Kiln Dried lumber. This wood is a little more expensive but is much more stable. Over kill the fasteners and use construction adhesive as well. Securely attach the first board and build up layer by layer. Wood is used by tile setters because it's easy, proven and fast. Ask 20 tile pros if they think a wood curb is better than a concrete curb. Try this test. Go out and buy 3 standard 2"x4"'s and nail them together. Take exact measurements to the half mil or 1/32" of an inch. Leave it closet for a year and take some more measurements. Did they change? I bet they do.... Building a curb out of Concrete or incorporating the curbs design with the pan offers up much more stream lined shower installations and can eliminate the "Monster Curbs" you see some tile guys use. What is the best for your shower? What is the cheapest option? What looks better? What is better for your bad hip? Often these questions cross paths and what is easier for your tile guy is not the best for your bad hip. Many are so entrenched into the old ways that the thought of spending an extra $200 -$400 on a shower curb construction is crazy talk. But I ask you this. If you are spending $24,000 on a new en suite Start to Finish - Isn't the extra $200.00 worth a much better looking end result. Not to mention that a poorly installed wood curb can shrink and check and in doing so stress the waterproofing used. Just saying.... Don't just search "How to built 'X'" Search "X" failures. Search "love X". Search my "x" failed. Reading all these stories you will further educate yourself and offer you will be exposed to many more opinions on the use of Standard 2"x4" lumber in the construction of a curb. I have built many curbs with wood - of course this can be done. But if you are paying a guy $350.00 to build a curb and this is a flat rate - does this include Kiln dried wood. Do you know that he did it right. A slow leak may not show it's self for years. Built it out of concrete and let it dry out. This is not what's best for the tile setter but what's best for your home. Understand this. Educated yourself. All ways double and triple check your sources.

Hi there, This is my first time posting in the bathroom forum (been hanging out in the appliance section), so I'm glad people have the same concerns I do about cleaning the shower! Apologies in advance if this is a bit tangental, but I've been looking at various shower surfaces for our new bathroom remodels. I like the look of tile/stone but absolutely abhor the idea of dealing with the grout and caulking -- it just seems like an inevitable problem. Those acrylic inserts appear to resolve this issue, but they're just so cheap feeling I don't think I can buy into it. Having recently visited a home show, I think I found a really interesting compromise called stonecraft (not sure if that's just the company brand name or the actual product name -- linked below). It's a plastic/cement mixture that they paint in two layers. The first layer goes on solid. Then they 'tape' the tile pattern you want, then apply the second coat (different colour). When the tape's removed, the first layer appears as the grout lines. I first looked at this for my patio deck, but the more I read into it, the more I liked it for other parts of the house -- including the shower (they even suggest it). My contractor worked on another house that used this outside and it really feels like a stone material. As it's painted on, it should be seamless (walls, floor, ceiling)and, therefore, a breeze to clean! Kind of hoping someone's used this and can share their experience, because it seems like a silver bullet. As for the doors itself, I'm wondering if anyone knows how long a shower stall would need to be to go 'doorless' without getting significant splashing out of water. TIA Here is a link that might be useful: Stonecraft

Hi tmnca! One thing to think about with the Kohler shower pans is whether you may ever be using a shower stool with legs. If you were to get a longer shower bench, the Salient may cause problems because the oval really does have quite a bit of "curb" to it, as shown in Badgergal's photo of her son's shower. With a small shower stool set in the center of the shower, it is fine. If you ever need a longer shower stool, the Bellweather gives you a surface not impeded with the raised oval. I does, however, have a slant to the overall shower floor, so that must be taken into account. I have seen the Bellweather in person. It is a non-slip surface. It almost felt like a surface that would make me trip - catching my foot if I did not pick it up and step. Like if I dragged the foot, it would catch and I would trip and fall. It was a funny feeling to the bottom, and I wondered how it would feel when wet. It was NOT going to feel slippery, though! As for tile in a shower floor, the other reason to have small tiles (besides the grout lines giving traction), is that the small tiles allow the tile layer to better cope with the slant toward the drain. Larger tiles only allow you to slant in one direction. The smaller the tile, the better it is for following contours on a floor that is flowing to a drain from all directions.

I keep revisiting this thread, hoping for a Sign. :) Is it ever acceptable to use a shower pan and create a tile threshold over it, thereby making it higher? As for cleaning the nonskid elements of a shower or tub. I have some wonderful nonskid strips in my otherwise very slippery acrylic tub where I take my showers. Yes, they pick up and hold grime a little too well and you can't just go gangbusters cleaning acrylic. The other day I used some Softscrub and a curved nail brush that fits around a couple of fingers. With very little elbow grease ALL the grime was removed and the shape of the nail brush is very ergonomic.