Start at a professional Tile store NOT a box store. Check the NTCA website( National Tile Contractors Assoc.) see if any shops in your area are members. I personally would stay away from the tileredi pan. Did I mention no box stores:)

Our contractor is using a schulter system. We found most of our role at the The Tile Shop.

Schluter Kerdi is a fine system. I've installed hundreds. USG 's new foam board system is a huge improvement over Kerdi. Superior membrane, board, drain and custom made trays in approx. six days. Exact same installation as kerdi. Worth considering. IMO

Why no box stores? Price is a factor for me. They carry daltile which I am told is a good brand. This is a condo not a luxury custom home, BTW.

What type of tile do I start with, are there different kinds for floors, shower wall, shower floor?

Why would you stay away from a tiled pan - details, please!

The tiles made for the big box stores are commonly not the same as available from the tile supply houses. Certainly explains the prices....

Have no fear of a tiled pan. Properly installed it will last a lifetime. We've seen plenty of pre-formed pans fail as well as tiled pans.

Cabot & Rowe, do you mean that even a reputable brand of tile will sell a substandard type at Home Depot, for example - what about the tile is poor?

The tiled-over pan I linked to seemed like a good product as it's all one piece and the mortar bed is placed under it, the you have a sealed unit to place tile on.

So if I find a tile store with tile I can actually afford, I notice that most people use a small tile in the shower floor and large on the walls and bathroom floor - is this for visual effect or to help grip or both? I prefer a larger tile so there is less grout to clean.

1- Commonly the big box store tile has a less dense body with the same ceramic coating, they are not as square, not as flat, not all the same size. While there are limits by the tile industry, sometimes these boundaries get pushed to lower the price the big box store wants to sell at.

2- The max tile size for a shower floor with a center drain is 4" smaller tiles have more grout and more grip. Larger and larger wall tiles are becoming the norm.

I don't mean to say all big box store tile is lousy, but you have to be careful when shopping.

OK, thanks for the tips! I'll make a trip to a tile store and see what they have to offer. So we don't need rougher tile for the floor than the walls?

The floor tile either needs to be small so that the grout lines keep it from being slippery or it needs to have a good co-efficient of friction to keep it from being slippery. A good tile store should be able to help you with this. (IME, service varies at the tile stores and we bought our floor tile from the place that was actually helpful.)

Regarding quality from the box stores, the only tile manufacturer I remember having difficulty with regarding quality was Florida Tile, but I haven't touched a tile by them in years.

Thinking about it, I'll add Marazzi to that list too, with the caveat that Marazzi tile I've used in recent years was better than the Marazzi I remember from many years ago. I used Marazzi on an exterior balcony in my own home several years ago. Had a nice look, a great texture, the quality was good. No complaints with that tile in that application.

Most quality control problems for me come from warpage and sizing. So for large format tile where you want tight grout lines, you might save now with the 99-cent special, but it'll cost you plenty later. For large format rectified tile, you can save money in labor by paying for a better quality tile. AND you'll get a better performing floor.

Low-cost natural stone tiles from the box stores can have issues, most notable being the natural cleft flaky-dirty-junk "slate" that HD sells. It'd be an insult to the fine trash already in the dumpster to toss the HD slate in with it. The HD slate is simply not worthy.

For tiles 12" to 13" and smaller, I think they can all work IF you can accept a 3/16" to 1/4" grout line. If you want tight lines, say 1/8" or less, then I recommend you go for rectified tiles.

Rectified tiles? Rectified tiles are cut to size from a large sheet of clay AFTER the clay has been fired, they'll be labeled as such, another indicator is that they'll have a sharp cut edge like a natural stone tile instead of a slumped or eased edge. With rectified there is no post-fire warping or skewing in size, so the tolerances are very good, and because of that you can get tight grout lines.

Take ten rectified tiles and stack them on edge tight to one another like a deck of cards on edge. See how the edges line up. See how the tiles generally lay flat to one another. Now do that with non-rectified. You'll notice the edge dimensions might be off here and there, and that the tiles might rock against each other a bit due to warpage.

For large format tile, rectified can be important. For standard sized squares and smaller, again, not so much unless you want very tight grout lines.

Porcelain: obviously a great choice in a wet area.

Floor vs Wall: Note that some tiles will be listed "floor" or "wall". Floor can be used anywhere. Wall might be too delicate or too slippery to be used on a floor.

There are some great looking porcelains that mimic the look of natural stone. If you want a natural stone look, check 'em out. One caveat: These tiles often have a manufactured pattern on them. Some lines only have a few patterns, so every 7th tile will look the same. Other lines have more patterns, 13, 15, 20. You'll get a more natural look the more prints there are in a line of tile. In a small bathroom, it might not be a factor. In a large room where repeatability could be picked up by the eye, it could be a factor.

Layout: Pattern and tile size. See the inspiration photo you posted? The wall and door tile look pretty much the same, but the wall tile is larger and stacked, the floor tile is smaller and set on a diagonal. Shift gears in pattern and tile size and you can create visual interest.

More on pattern. Grout lines lead the eye. Again, look at your inspiration photo. When you look at the floor, the grout lines typically draw a persons eye on a diagonal. In a rectangular room, a diagonal lone across the room is longer than a straight line across the room. Diagonals can sometimes open up a space, making it seem larger than it is. The key words being sometimes and seem.

Your inspriration photo has small tile on the bathroom floor. To minimize grout lines, most folk will go with a larger tile there. Unless you're looking for a period look.

Tie it all together: A tiled installation can seem cohesive by repeating materials in the room. Look at the "flat" surfaces in the shower; the cap on the pony wall, the cap on the curb, a shelf in a niche, the seat on a built-in bench. If you made those a different material/color than the floor/wall field tile, they'll add visual interest. If you make them out of the same material as the vanity countertop? As the windowsill? Then you can tie the entire bathroom together.

Shower pan: I'm biased. I hate tile ready pans. I really dislike any plastic pan. The only manufactured pan I like is the Kohler cast iron pan. Porcelainized cast iron, they have the same look at cast iron tubs. They can transcend design styles. They look great, they perform great, they last as long as anything out there, and then some.

With any manufactured pan, your layout is restricted to the size of the pan. That's why I like deck mud pans with a topical membrane over them. You get your custom size, custom shape, custom slope, you make it what you want it to be. And you get the best waterproofing and control out there.

Waterproofing? In this day and age of tightly built houses, moisture control is important. It's a lot easier to control it at the source instead of trying to deal with it later. I really like topical membranes. There are sheet and liquid membranes. Sheet like Kerdi, Hydroban sheet, Nobel, etc. Liquids like Hydroban Liquid, RedGard, etc. I prefer to install those over 1/2" cement board like Durock or Wonderboard.

There are foam boards with an integral membrane like the USG system Creative linked to earlier in the thread, similar to Kerdi board. Those get installed right to the framing. No cement board needed. You get some insulative value AND a waterproof surface to tile upon.

The manufacturers of topical membranes also have preformed/presloped tile pans. They can work, nothing wrong with them, but again, my personal preference is to shape my own pan with deck mud.

Since you're in a condo, if you're on a common water supply you'll probably need to install a shower supply valve with "stops". Stops are little shut off valves on the hot and cold water supply sides of the valve, so if you ever have to do maintenance on your valve you can simply close the stops to remove water from the valve instead of having to have the water shut off to your entire building or stack, inconveniencing your neighbors.

My head hurts.

MongoCT, thanks so much! THat's a real education in tile and bathrooms for me :) I will look at these other shower pans. I just hate a plastic-y look. As for "today's" houses, our condo was built in 1980 so it's not really new, not really old.

The floor in the regular part of the bathroom doesn't have to be small. In fact, I'd say go big to avoid cleaning grout lines! It's the shower floor that needs smaller tiles for safety.

Yes, understood - smaller tile for shower floor, or high coefficient of friction (or both). Kohler doesn't seem to make a pan the correct size for fitting in where our tub is, the area is 58 3/4" wide wall to wall (there is a partial wall between tub and toilet we plan to keep, these are drywalled and the tub surround is a 1-peice molded type). The Kohler pans are 60", and so are the tile-ready ones I linked. I checked with redi-pan and their pan is to fit behind the backer board and tile so the width is to the studs, which would be correct I think (once drywall is removed it should be 60" studs to stud). What about the Kohler type pans are they designed to go studs to studs, ie backer board and tile sit on top? We can't go custom pan with our budget and I don't really trust a tile-only shower floor without some kind of formed pan.

I definitely don't want the plastic look and feel, or anything terrible to clean, such as acrylic. Also I would really love the french drain.

Kohler cast iron pans are 60" long and are intended to go stud to stud, just like your existing tub does. The pans are 2 widths I believe, one at 36" rough in, and the other 32" rough in. These are designed to fit the same space that typical tubs fit. If you get a 36"x60" they might only come in a center drain, but I'm not sure. The 32x60 have right or left drain and should fit your existing tub configuration. The drain might need to be larger diameter, than the tub to meet code. My Kohler pan is 36x60 rough in, and has a center drain. I LOVE IT.

I found the 60x32" Bellwether with offset drain that looks nice - only Ferguson's has it in stock but still takes 10 days to ship from warehouse . I see they have another pan called Salient but I don't like the patterned grip - has anyone seen these models both in person? What model is yours, enduring?

From the website this one looks nicer and can have a drain cover

http://www.us.kohler.com/us/Bellwether-60-x-32-single-threshold-shower-base-with-right-offset-drain/productDetail/shower-bases/1012539.htm?skuId=1012521&brandId=1027726

This is the Salient model, in stock in several places, seems more popular

http://www.us.kohler.com/us/Salient-60-x-30-single-threshold-right-hand-drain-shower-base/productDetail/shower-bases/426200.htm?skuId=399169&brandId=431313

It also seem like if we used such a pan, we would be better off doing all glass front rather than a pony wall, since the pony wall would have to project out into the room and the door to the bathroom is there (we need to convert to a pocket door anyway the current door opens against the tub and blocks it). We don't have the toilet there so it's not needed, I just figured it would be less glass to clean.

My son used the Kohler Salient 30x60 shower base to replace his tub/shower combo. He loves it, especially not having lots of grout lines in the shower floor.

Here is a before pic.

His project is done but this is the only picture I could find at the moment.

Badgergal, I didn't know that the Salient came in a 60x30, good to know. How did you do the glass? Did you do french doors, side mounted? Did you end up drilling through the cast iron to get a stationary panel? Or did you get a top rolling bypass door that could be mounted to the walls, and hang freely at the bottom in a non-invasive tract?

The Bellwether is very contemporary and looks like a great option, though I am not sure about that uneven surface at the drain. I'd be afraid it could cause a slip or trip. The patterned textured surface on the pan is a non issue for me.

Thanks - enduring your shower is beautiful and the french door makes so much sense I think we will steal that idea! Thanks for sharing I had not seen your photo before. I think we will be seriously considering the Kohler base, the idea of tile makes me nervous about leaks. The Salient does come in 30" depth, whereas the Bellwether comes in 32" and 34" depth. We can fit a 32" depth but could also use 30", the extra 2" may be nice for DH's elbow room though.

Enduring, it is my son's bathroom and I don't have a finished picture to show his doors. He wanted the Kohler Levity top rolling bypass doors but there was an issue with who was going to install them and with the cost of installation. A couple of the glass companies he consulted with didn't carry those doors so wouldn't install them and his contractor did not want to install them. He couldn't do a fixed panel because he wanted to be able to access the controls without getting in the shower. He couldn't do your type of doors because of the proximity of the toilet. It couldn't be moved over at al. Thank goodness it did meet the minimum code clearance.

tmnca, good luck with your remodel

badgergal, another greta point about the fixed panel - having french doors means we can reach in and turn on the shower to warm up first - perfect!

I think the wider you can get the shower the better. Be sure to have 2x4 or other acceptable blocking in the walls where you will mount the doors. There are several brands of roller doors that might work along with the french type doors that I used. It does depend on clearance which door you use. Best of luck and keep us posted.

FWIW, they do have 4' long shower pans that others have used and these work great too. I am not sure which widths they come in. But a 48" long shower might be a consideration.

I prefer the hinged doors because roller doors require a track and I don't want to clean tracks! We are sticking to 60" wide because we want the shower to occupy the entire tub alcove we have now - there is a wall between the tub and toilet we are keeping. I'm sure the contractor will block for the doors, I'll show him this before.

As for floor and shower wall tile, I saw this... what do you think? If we went with a white cast iron shower pan would it be too uniform to have the same large format tile on floor and shower walls? (Other walls will not get tile). Maybe this is a home decorating question.

https://www.tileshop.com/product/blas+anthracite+porcelain+floor+tile+-+12+x+24+in.do?from=Search&cx=0#tile-estimator

the tile above used on Young House Love (the photo on the supplier website looks brown, looks like the wrong one!)

This similar tile from HD is half the price:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/U-S-Ceramic-Tile-Avila-24-in-x-12-in-Gris-Porcelain-Floor-and-Wall-Tile-14-25-sq-ft-case-FH1T635021/202039486?MERCH=REC--product-6--202919773--202039486--N&cm_mmc=shopping--pinterest--D23-_-202039486

If you're still with me, for those of you who used the Kohler cast iron base, do the glass doors mount positioned inside the base edge, right at the edge? Basically what would the distance be from the finished wall to the glass doors, if we use the Salient which is in stock at HD, we'd have less than 30" from the finished wall to the glass, do you find that sufficient? We have a curved shower rod on our tub combo to give us a bit of extra elbow room so I feel like 30" would be a little cramped while 36" will project past the partition wall, the Salient is only available in those sizes. The Bellwether comes in 60x32" which should give us around 30" of actual space in the shower, from finished wall to glass. But the Bellwether is not stocked locally (and I can't see it in person) so Ferguson's will ship it from their warehouse by freight to their store which takes 10+ days.

I have the 36" Salient and the interior is probably around 34". The cement board and tile takes up about and inch, then the glass sits about and inch in from the outer edge of the pan. I think the width of the curb is about 2-3" wide.

I like the looks of the Bellwether, except for the well at the drain. Can you find out more info on that feature? Will Ferguson bring in a pan without commitment for you to look at? Are you in a hurry?

The Bellweather drain has a cover you can buy white plastic, brushed metal, etc. It also has non slip texture it says, but not in a pattern that I can see.

Hi tmnca!

One thing to think about with the Kohler shower pans is whether you may ever be using a shower stool with legs. If you were to get a longer shower bench, the Salient may cause problems because the oval really does have quite a bit of "curb" to it, as shown in Badgergal's photo of her son's shower. With a small shower stool set in the center of the shower, it is fine. If you ever need a longer shower stool, the Bellweather gives you a surface not impeded with the raised oval. I does, however, have a slant to the overall shower floor, so that must be taken into account.

I have seen the Bellweather in person. It is a non-slip surface. It almost felt like a surface that would make me trip - catching my foot if I did not pick it up and step. Like if I dragged the foot, it would catch and I would trip and fall. It was a funny feeling to the bottom, and I wondered how it would feel when wet. It was NOT going to feel slippery, though!

As for tile in a shower floor, the other reason to have small tiles (besides the grout lines giving traction), is that the small tiles allow the tile layer to better cope with the slant toward the drain. Larger tiles only allow you to slant in one direction. The smaller the tile, the better it is for following contours on a floor that is flowing to a drain from all directions.

nancyinmich, no we don't use a bench and we don't intend to be in this home when we will be old enough to be more likely to require one for disability reasons. It's not an easily accessible home anyway so no point in trying to make our shower that way - we just don't use the tub often and have a tub in our hall bathroom so it's nicer to have a shower for our daily use.

enduringWe don't stand close to the edge of the shower, that wouldn't be an issue for us we stand in the middle. However there are some details about the dimensions of the drain location that are confusing and not compatible with our existing drain, I just posted on the plumbing forum for help:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3572862/having-a-shower-pan-installed