kimmser/peter- Thanks for the interest and info. I recently had a soil test done (my first one) and everything was in the high range EXCEPT Potassium. However, for whatever reason, my soil test results did not include the amount of nitrogen. I notice on the soil report that nitrate nitrogen is listed but there is no info about it in the results column. I was thinking that NITRATE nitrogen would be something that applied to synthetic fertilizers moreso than organic... but I really don't know. So, I don't know how much nitrogen is already there. Do I need to find out? How do I find out (soil test is done by Clemson University). The only other unknowns are sulfer & percentage of organic matter because apparently they require separate tests. The PH is 5.9 with a buffer ph of 7.75 and Clemson does not recommend liming at this level (although it is borderline). This test was taken prior to putting in my garden (first one this plot) and I added black kow, blood meal(5lbs/100sqft), greensand 10 lbs/100sqft)and rock phosphate 10 lbs/100sqft)at levels designed to bring a medium or low reading up to high. So, I'm thinking that because my garden was so BAD this go round that all of these additional ammendments are still there. So, don't really think an additional soil test is necessary but I'm probably going to get one anyone more or less out of curiousity. Kimmser- I did the settling out test and mostly what I have is sand. Very little organic matter and clay. Thus the reason for trying hairy vetch. I'm also guessing that there is little bacterial activity because of the lack of organic matter (thus the reason for thinking most of the "blood meal" is still there. Drains well, smells fine, no earthworms. Yeah, it needs some work, I'm starting to understand why. Peter- Interesting on the addition of rye to suppress the weeds. I take it the hairy vetch is slow to cover, I thought it would do ok on it's own. Based on what I've said above, would you agree that a nitrogen source is probably not necesary. 4 years for a soil test seems reasonable to me. Sure would like to get to where I don't need them at all to understand how my soils doing. Another apparent misconception on my part is that I'm going to be able to plant my spring garden in the plot that I plant the hairy vetch in now (winter cover crop). I was thinking I'd till it in a few weeks before last frost and everything would be better for my spring/summer garden. What I'm hearing you say is I probably need to wait. Trying to come up with a plan that I can rotate out spring/summer & fall/winter cover crops with spring/summer and fall/winter gardens. Attempting to figure how many separate plots I need to take things in and out of rotation so that I can get the organic matter in while also cutting down on disease because I rotate. What's the worse case scenario if I don't include the cereal rye with the vetch? So the cereal rye actually kills weed/vegetable seeds? Certainly didn't know that. I thought it was just weed suppression because it grew fast and got ahead of all the weeds thus shading them out and or choking them or something. Is the weed seed killer nature specific to cereal rye or is it particular of all the ryes? What about mixing in some sort of clover vs the rye? My brains spinning already when it comes to scheduling. Thanks for reminding me about the innoculant. Keep forgetting about it. Sounds like it's pretty important. Is there any info out there about how an innoculant could potentially be bad for your soil? It's not introducing something to it that hasn't been there in the past? Thanks all!

I really like distance views to connect my gardens, so I guess you could say that my garden rooms have an open floor plan. I do have three new gardens planned for the upcoming year (if the snow ever melts and the ground dries enough to work before the heat of summer.) Over the past couple of years, I have gathered quite a collection of David Austin roses ... mostly the old ones that Mr. Austin has deemed to be unworthy. Every single one of them is still in a pot, and this is the year that I am determined to put them into the ground. Instead of spreading them among all the gardens, I decided to group them together. That way, visitors can appreciate their scent and form all in one spot. I'll have a country-style picket fence to support the taller varieties, and plant the shrubbier ones in front. I only have a vague vision of this garden ... I'll probably make it up as I go along. Another collection that is completely out of hand is my Ralph Moore mini roses. I have collected them for a few years. The closing of Nor-East's retail business last year opened the vault and made varieties available that I had only dreamed of having. These little guys are getting their own garden in a prominent spot by the barn ... probably designed like a knot garden, divided into quadrants with tuteurs in the center of each segment and a feature in the center of the garden. I'm still working on it. The third garden will be a place to house all of the roses that I have collected from cemeteries and old house sites, and it will be designed to look like a country cemetery. Wood fence posts and wire fencing ... I even have an antique cemetery gate to use. This garden will require some space, since I have roses like Banshee, and R. moschata, and Mme. Lombard, and others that get pretty big. If I can accomplish this, I will be left with only a few roses in pots by the end of the year. This is my goal ... to get as many roses as I can into the ground. It will be a very new concept for me, since I have always had potted roses waiting for their spot in the garden to protect through winter. Connie

Before I joined my garden club ordered bulbs in bulk for sharing. I hope we can do it again and also share seeds. We visit local ecological vegetable farms, public gardens and parks with special features, our own gardens and local private gardens of some fame. We organize a country walk in spring to a beauty spot where one of us has made a fire for a barbecue in advance. Last year we had a talk by a remarkable woman farmer who grows several old varieties of grains like spelt and visited her farm in summer to buy flour and taste and buy her bread. We arrange plant fairs on a small scale twice a year and sell our surplus plants and produce. This fall we will have a pelargonium competition. Each contestant starts with a cutting of the same size and the same variety (Wilhelm Langguth) supplied by a member who is a collector. Next week we will visit a local nursery after hours where we get reduced prices when we come as group. The owner gives a short talk about novelties and any plants of distinction. This post was edited by mariannese on Fri, May 16, 14 at 6:09

Just what I was going to suggest. They should thrive in a Californian winter. Even here I can sow a row in November and they generally come through to crop in May. Also what I believe you call English peas, and I just call peas, can be Autumn sown. When you clear the crop leave the roots in the ground to rot and provide nitrogen for your Summer crops.