Chiming in for my own interest as well as to offer a suggestion. Warning: I am a novice - my advice might be detrimental! Hopefully, those with greater expertise can chime in and offer an opinion. I put in a 12 x 10 pond years ago. Did it on the cheap. I used the thickest black plastic on a roll I could find. It is not unlike painter's drop clothes only a lot thicker. Every 2-3 years I have to replace it due to it wearing out or getting holes poked in it by my kids playing around. It was $30 or so for a monstrous roll I still haven't used completely. Why not drain down the pond, muck it out, layer the pond with the cheap liner and see what happens? Full disclosure - I go to the local pet store and buy 25-cent goldfish. The sales people are usually good about letting me select a combination of different markings so my gene pool is diverse. I started with four and had it quickly grow to 40-ish fish. For a while I fed them but found out one winter I didn't have to - I was hospitalized and too infirm to care for them and they survived on the nutrients in the pond. Trees grew over the pond in time and they would muck up the bottom and clog my submersible pumps. Eventually, the shade countered the algae growth and I didn't need to replace the pumps. A small number of plants in pots that were weighted to stay submerge provided a small amount of cover. A shrub rooted near the pond and branches dangled to the ponds surface. I trimmed them but left the shrub for shade/protection. The problems were not health of the water or the fish or the plants. The problems were related to leaves filling the pond and "filling it in" substantially each fall. Until Tulsa changed the chemicals in its water supply. The 110+ degree temps and leaks in the thin-ish liner required fillings 2-3 times a week. I forgot for a week and it got really low. The water I added overwhelmed the existing water, and the chemicals wiped out the remaining dozen fish. The plants didn't seem to mind but I now have a muck-covered liner (several layers of it, actually, as I'd just add the new one on top of the other, figuring the old ones would provide some protection from roots poking through). Is that a practical solution? Buy some cheap CHEAP liner. Connect them to cover the bottom of the pond. Drain and muck out the pond, drop the liner and let it fill in. === Or...fill in a big chunk of it and create a new "wall" out of liner with rocks, backfilling with rock, soil, sand, whatever. Plant plants that don't mind wet feet and let them live in a bed next to a much more manageable pond.

meslgh......... You have gotten advice from people local to you, so my two cents is of less value than what they have told you, but it may add a dimension you can use in your decision making. I live in a latitude further north than you and I live at a higher elevation, so even though we both live in zone 8a, the light is different up here than where you live. That's why the local advice is much better. Also, since I live in the mountains, my night temps cool off by 40 to 50 degrees and that gives the plants a chance to rehydrate themselves during the night ... pull moisture up from the root zone to the top growth. I don't know if that is true where you live. What I have learned about growing roses in an area of high heat (Heat zone 8), is that roses with thicker petal substance can handle more light and heat. Since I don't have any disease pressure once the day temps hit 85 degrees and stay there or higher, I prune for foliage. That means I don't take out anything that might produce foliage. The rose will abandon what it cannot use. I have found that the roses need as much foliage as possible to stimulate the plant to pull moisture up from the root zone. Once my roses have been in the ground for 3 to 4 years, they are much better at handling the light and the heat. I have some roses that only look wonderful in spring and fall and pretty lousy during the summer months. That's fine with me because I love the roses and I have enough other roses that do well in the summer months. My goal is not to strive for perfect blooms, but for a healthy plant. A healthy plant provides enough blooms to keep me happy. I hope this helps. Smiles, Lyn

The Bustopher, I planted those delphiniums a few years ago, and they keep comming back each year. Many people here have mentioned they have probs growing them too, but somehow they seem to do OK in my garden. I don't have full sun though, so that may help when the summer temps rise.

Yes, that might work. My yard is fenced, but they still get in since they were foaled here before the tall fencing went up. They just mow it down. I also have individual beds done until they are out for good. I'm surrounded by trees and tall retaining wall. Netting is hardly visible, fwiw. Someone on this forum uses some sort of led lights that flash. I asked about it, but never heard back. I should probably google that. The water scarecrow did work really well for my upper level until i fenced it, but I'm afraid they will breach that as well since that fence isn't as tall.