I'd rather see the existing kitchen and all dimensions WITHIN the whole of the entire living floor. Including stairs, family , dining room etc

I would go with Option #5 -- it looks like you've made a great use of space! A few questions: 1) Is the appliance garage being housed beneath the stairs? Or were the stairs moved to account for the extra space? 2) How do you plan to enclose the pantry or pantries? I love my walk-in pantry, but it has a window & counters (I use it to bake). If your pantry is just for food storage, a pantry cabinet may work just as well, though building out the wall is likely more affordable. If replacing with a pantry cabinet, you could make the family room closet wider. I would probably eliminate the second, larger pantry and keep the entrance to the family room as-is. Add a cabinet in place of the deep pantry. Or, could you use additional space in the laundry? Perhaps combining the two would be helpful. 3) Have you had a desk in the kitchen before? Every client I've worked with who has a desk eliminates it in their remodel, as they find it doesn't get used, except to accumulate clutter. If a command center is needed, perhaps a shallow, narrow cabinet (to the right of the window could do the job). Or it may be better placed where the second pantry is, especially if the laundry room serves as a mudroom/garage access, as then it would be central. 4) What is the plan for the cabinet to the left of the desk?

IMO we need a to scale floor plan with allm easurements clearly marked and more info. For instance the appliances and their sizes is a major part of kitchen design so planning new ones or keeping the old ones , Either way we need those meaurements . Post the plan here in jpeg so we can enalrge tit and do not start another post any questions and answers are also posted here in comments.

Option #5 has the fridge on the other side of a walkway from sink and range (and behind a barrier island), Option #6 keeps all the appliances on the same side of the island/walkway. I personally find Option #6 more ergonomic, but have seen #5 in many homes.

Is the middle one your current layout?

A sketch of the entire floor would be really helpful.

See this thread for more information on what we need: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5972404/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first-2020-interim

Neither one is good

Option 5 with the island turned 180 degrees (so seats in front of the main sink/dw), width reduced to 42", and with a prep sink added.

Thank you all for your comments. I have added photos, blueprints, and FAQs to the original post. First timer learning here :)

Appliance garage is just under the staircase. More like deep tray pull out storage,

My concerns about Option 5 ---> the closet may not happen due to load bearing wall The pantry will be like my current pantry (in existing floorplan) That narrow recess is a pain.

I dont like how the 17.5' wall is being used (Not too functional).

OPtion 6 - Opening up looks good in theory but can someone tell me if it will actually work with my floorplan. I am thinking of shortening the L countertop to about 5'10" with a small prep sink and do a single kitchen door or a window. The island can then shift towards the door and open up the pantry the 5'10".

Option 5 and ^ provided by designer (I pushed her towards giving me Option 6)

That leads to Option 7 which I only have a rough sketch of - not drawn to scale. I have 5 questions in Option 7:

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Q1 - As long as the corner of the island and corner of the countertop is offset by a few inches and not in a straight line, this should work right? Or is there a particular space between those corners needed.

Q2: The oven and microwave reduce the entryway from 5' to 3'. I can go in for a slide in range and a microwave cabinet in the pantry wall. ANy feedback on either?

Q3: What size prep sink can I afford with 5'10" countertop (2' of which goes in the L) or would you do away with the L altogether - (the range will no longer have 2.5 inch on either side with the prep sink)

Q4: Should I retain the kitchen door or should it be a window?

Q5: COntractors and my designer is recommending a 48" wide island - is that too much considering there is no range etc ... of course the storage space would be good.

Thanks again .. Hope I have furnished detailed info.

After looking at the lengthy interview copied from a previous thread and images, I suggest hiring a local competent kitchen designer, and not rely on crowd sourcing over the internet.

I only responded to the questions asked in the read me thread..I am working with a designer but wanted feedback from the hive mind here as well.

A hive and crowd source is the certainty to drive any competent KD insane.

You haven't a floor plan of the entire living floor.

You have questions to us, some of which are choice and many of which should be posed to a designer who SHOULD be a sounding board of pro and con.

It's not untrue that a crowd source CAN yeild benefit.....from showing one or two options at most. For a "flaw test" if you want to call it that.

But the attempt to do it this early on WITHOUT seeing the existing as part of an accurate scaled entire first floor? Not as good.Also....confusing for you, as you get " In my kitchen we did this"........answers. But none of those are YOUR kitchen, your home

I have posted the floor plan, the blueprints, even the columns and other site references. I may have given too much information but I only went by what the read me suggested.

Is this some kind of hazing for newcomers:) I have given info as suggested by the read me.

@Samayal Arai I just started reading discussions and offering advice in the last couple of days and am disappointed in all of the negative/unhelpful comments. If people don't have constructive criticism to offer they should refrain from posting.

@Samayal Arai was the floor plan provided by the builder flipped? I was confused, but I'm guessing it's a mirror image. Is the staircase fully enclosed by a wall on the kitchen side?

Thanks Yonder way designs! I am truly a rookie when it comes home projects and this is a big one! Yes! Very good catch on the mirror image. Being an old house, this is the plan I could get from the HOA. Right now staircase is open with doors and we already use it but we will probably open it up more and use it with 1 or 2 pull out trays. It is an unwieldy place where we store appliances, a big pack of paper towels etc

I'm still stuck on the second sentence of your post. For the life of me I can't figure out why a new range hood requires new countertops. Perhaps the wall cabinets on either side of the new hood would need to be adjusted, but that should be the extent of the changes.

The stovetop is currently in the island, so they don't have a range hood, or at least not one they like.

Yes, island cooktop with a downdraft hood with only 10 inches countertop on either side of the cooktop. Grrr... I lived with it for so long but remodel is due. While that is the motivating factor, the room is pretty dark with black appliances. The cabinet doors and frame are solid oak but the carcase is all just cheap stuff, no pull out drawers. Plus it is extremely tempting to open up to the dining room that in turn opens up to the living room.

Primary question - will opening the wall be as good as I imagine in my head?

This is the mirror image plan on my house. Staircase and powder are swapped.

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w

I like Jan's plan.

I wonder if a "hidden pantry" can help to give you a wider entry to your pantry. I have zero idea how they are built, bu it may worth exploring.

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I changed all the entries to the kitchen and came up with this.

I meant to add a MW drawer in the base cab next to the fridge but forgot.

Just an idea from an engineer who’s remodeled multiple kitchens

Thank you all for your valuable feedback. I realized it was not working out with my KD and I got my own design done. I used the 17 ft wall to make my working line with refrigerator, prep sink and range.

I get a nice big pantry 7 * 5. Should I spend extra for a sliding door?

Instead of removing the wall fully, I have 3 options -

peninsula with the beam still in place with a column by the doorway to frame it like a window opening.

5 ft entrance without opening the wall - but a nice big appliance cabinet with the countertop running though it.

peninsula with the doorway and beam but no column (I don't even know yet if this would work).

ANy other feedback?

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Your range to sink path is traffic THRU.

Not great, but you have to live with it:)

You mean the patio door? Not a big problem. No one goes out that much.

If you are happy and you fired the designer, and you did your own and are happy? Curious as to why you are asking , not to mention your design can't be blown up to any real legibility

I like your existing layout better than any of the ones proposed above. It could be tweaked by putting a prep sink in the island so that you're closer to the fridge while preparing meals. You could also remove the pantry closet walls and reimagine that wall (or not, depending on how much you like your existing fridge and pantry).

I see a few issues, but you do not appear to really be open to anyone critiquing it (despite what your post says).

Good luck with your remodel!

"Harass" you? I gave you a better plan, with a more efficient appliance layout. Yes,,,, it is a bit more work via smaller patio door opening and a bump to exterior wall. I pointed out the flaw in yours and it "is not a big deal" . At some point, you have to do the kitchen that works for you.

Kitchens are gathering spaces no matter the size - do what works when folks GATHER in yours, especially on pantry side. No one here created the confines in your kitchen - the builder did that.

You also created more electrical and plumbing work in your plan. Whatever, do what works for you.

I just asked if it was the patio door side that you were talking about... It truly isn't a big problem since we have 2 other doors to the outside. You make a super valid point about the pantry. I will think about it. Maybe a sliding door would be great. A bump in the exterior wall is working out very expensive so far. That would open up so many possibilities. Thanks again.

Hood vent work is super easy in my plan since it is directly is on an exterior facing part of the wall. In yours fridge plumbing would be easier. Are you saying a bump to the exterior wall is cheaper than electric and plumbing?

@Samayal Arai glad you found a plan you like, and am glad you opened the pantry/left in place (I would just center the door)! I'm also glad you kept your island blank, too, as this will be the perfect spot for your kids to do homework/hang out with you while cooking! I also like that you replaced the siding glass doors, though if it isn't used often, I would opt for a single door and either add a window or leave a blank wall for some artwork. One idea I didn't see anyone else mention (of course, if your stairwell is open, it may not be desirable as you would have to close off the wall), but I would move the dining room opening to the opposite side. This gives you great flow after clean-up of meals, and, opens up the stove area. I hadn't decided what to do with the corner near the family room -- if it were my home, I would want a second bathroom with such a big floor plan and may offer that space to the adjoining mudroom. If a forever home, creating a master bedroom on the main level would also be a consideration. What a fun project you're embarking on -- good luck with everything!

Thanks @yonder way designs... You do truly understand my constraints and my floor plan... Will PM you with some questions...

Or maybe I will be brave enough to ask my questions here... I am just trying to understand... All the recommendations and suggestions leaned towards using the 12 ft wall between the kitchen and dining hall for the range. Only my design uses the 17.5 ft exterior wall.. Is this from an expense perspective? Aesthetics? Wondering why everyone prefers retaining and using the 12 ft wall for the range. Using the 17 ft wall gives my hood vent direct access to the outside, there is the laundry sink neerby to pull plumbing.. the only conenction that would be longer is the 50A connection for the oven... I am not trying to defend my design ... Just wondering what I am missing.

Venting out the 12' wall is beyond common, and it is too far from sink...on your preferred spot.

Again.......It is your kitchen

Bumping those doors gives the ease of a better fridge locale. The weeny bump OUT at the sink for a barely adequate kitchen was the initial tragedy : ) As if the slight add to square feet in dining with no recess would have really impacted the build $$$$.......

@Samayal Arai I worked off of your option 5 design which I thought was pretty good, so I just tweaked it a bit. As for the range wall on the 12', it's closer proximity to the sink wall, creating a better work flow (I'm also frugal, so I wanted to avoid making any huge changes!). Aesthetically, I see your main entry to the kitchen as coming from the family room so you get a better view of the new range/hood with it on the 12' wall. I didn't consider the 17' wall an exterior wall, since much of it is within the utility room, but I see your point and now see why you were wanting to open the dining wall (if the main entrance to the kitchen is coming from the dining room). I will take another look at your newest design with this perspective in mind. Could you share a photo showing how your staircase fits into the dining/kitchen space? Also, do you have an elevation of what the 17' wall you designed?

Obviously the cabinets need to be tweaked a bit :)

This looks pretty good...is that the fridge to the left (I couldn't tell where it was in the plan). I would suggest giving your vent hood more space/making more of a focal point by removing the upper cabinets (since the vent hood is what started you down this path to begin with).

Yes. It is the fridge to the left. Here is the photo of the staircase, dining, kitchen entrance like you asked.

So this may be a crazy question: would you consider closing off the kitchen access from the family room? You have this great circular flow through your house, but I know you mentioned the FR becomes mom's guest room when she visits, and I also brought up the idea of having a master on the ML down the road for aging in place. You have so many great gathering spaces on the ML, would the FR be missed (you're making the door smaller, and seem to be having traffic flow through the dining for the most part)?

Our main living areas are to the right of the kitchen - tv in the living room, dining and den. Family room is kinda our backup room. It's a bit recessed and private with a daybed but we don't hangout there. This plan opens up the kitchen to both family room, dining and part of the living room. Anyone who is standing here from where the photo is taken would see the whole width of the house with the 12' wall gone (with a peninsula instead). Kitchen door and windows, dining window up front and living room window walls to the right. That is why it seems worth the expense.

How far back does the air return vent go back from the corner of the pantry?

Yes, removing or minimizing the upper cabinets is on my mind. Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes. I wouldn't want to give up on the circular flow just yet. Actually I am retaining the current wide doorway to the family room and already have the space for 48" counter depth fridge (upto 27" deep). Sorry the design is a bit confusing. I have been playing with so many versions that the plan that I have here shows a 36" fridge but the elevation shows the correct 48" fridge. Were you thinking of a cool design thing that closing that doorway would buy me?

Will post a picture of the return air flow vent in the next post. Great job catching that constraint as well. It almost spans the entire wall.

In my mind, this is the only plan that I found that retains the current sink, gives me a good size normal rectangular pantry (without nooks and crevices), keeps secondary stuff on the 12' wall (maybe an appliance garage with wall cabinets if I don't open it up) and does not add too much extra work. The only real extra work it adds is the shifting and replacing of the exterior door and addition of a prep sink. Gas line, hood work etc would have to be done any which way. I guess I am looking for validation since my KD and the houzz Ds didn't quite go in this direction. My contractors and spouse seemed to like my plan though :)

If it works for you, go for it! I was hoping to find a way to give you some counter space close to the fridge by closing off the family room entrance, but the air vent is in the way. It's too bad the fridge is all alone in the corner, though I do like it close to the utility room for bringing in groceries! Just make sure you leave enough room for trim around the fridge and trim for the doorway. With a 36" fridge and 36" door, I only see 10' left for the stove wall. If those go down to 32" (which may be what you were thinking anyway), you can get 11' (again, you'll want to account for the door trim and a little extra hip wiggle room in that walkway). With 11' you can center the stove and create a focal point wall, which I would suggest if you decide to explore the idea of opening the dining wall. The great thing is this design doesn't hinge on the dining wall being opened up. I would consult a contractor for pricing to determine if it's worth it (I now see how it could be -- took me long enough, lol!). If doing the 10' wall, you might consider leaving the window in place and centering the prep sink there so it seems more intentional. Since you'll be changing the patio door anyway, I would recommend a single swinging door. Again, I would center the pantry door and consider lining the perimeter with base cabinets and possibly upper cabinets (maybe just the back wall?). You could use your existing cabinets in here or purchase something inexpensive (I used IKEA in mine & love them -- it's my "baking pantry"). Keep your mixer, toaster, coffee maker, microwave, etc. out at all times & it could be a great breakfast space, too. If opening the dining wall, lengthen the island so you have 4 to 4-1/2 feet on the sides (it will be 10-11' long). On the sink wall, depending on how you store dishes...I would want the dishwasher to the right of the sink and an upper cabinet for glasses. With the wall opening you will have a straight run. If not opening that wall, I might consider doing uppers stacked on top of the base here (creating the custom hutch look), as you don't need counter space here -- your island will serve as the main prep space. You really have the opportunity to create a showstopper kitchen with this project -- I look forward to hearing/seeing how it all turns out!

Only my design uses the 17.5 ft exterior wall.. ........ Just wondering what I am missing.

I'm no expert, but squeezing fridge, prep sink, prep and cooking in that single wall in such a big kitchen doesn't seem like a good idea imo. Since you eat your meals in the DR, having the range top near that area makes more sense to me.

Do you know if you can vent outside when you have the rangetop near the corner of the DR wall? Maybe something like below can be considered.

@sena01 these look great -- a whole new take on the space! The only thing they lose is the space under the stairs, but with the huge new pantry, there should be plenty of room for storage of those bulky items. As Jan mentioned before, venting through the DR wall shouldn't be too much of an issue and may be worth looking into. What do you think, @Samayal Arai?

@sena01 Actually love this plan as well... Lots to think about! Without the wall getting removed, this is as close as what I would get to an open feel... DH loves how the fridge is very close to its current space and plumbing would be cheaper.

1 thing both of us were saying was how we should forward all these wonderful ideas to our ex-KD and let them know what customers are looking for! Let me revert back after some thinking! Thanks so much for all your thought and suggestions.