I’m guessing you didn’t fully bare root the remaining roots. How do you handling watering when you have two very different mediums? I’m worried for you!

Thanks Mike - if I’m emailing you, it meas I’m dealing with another major problem...here’s hoping things turn around for my trees and I don’t have to bother you. I appreciate the offer. You’re always helpful

I did not fully bare root. I will have to make sure that I really soak the roots well when I water. You are such a worry wart (:

You should have stayed with the same or very similar mix and you should have up/re potted sooner. Dense mix does NOT hurt citrus if properly managed despite what many people in here seem to think. You can pot in clay loam soil and the trees won't really mind as long as you don't overwater. Using soils with very different mechanical properties does cause problems though.

If you look at the Tintori videos you can see that a pretty dense mix is used judging from the way the rootball stays firmly in place and in shape when doing an up/re potting operation.

Vlaidimr. Apology accepted. Let's enjoy the future. You and I can accomplish a lot here together)

Thank you , Mike. You are a gentleman.

Nik, Tintori's mix looks different from the citrus and cactus mix in that it seems to have a gritty nature and so I imagine that it is more porous and less likely to compact. No?

Hi Alanna I feel for you and your frustration I see you've posted on multiple threads that your trees aren't doing better. I can try and offer my two cents even though you've got the experts here already! The nzl that had the root rot in the 511, I potted it into a very tiny clay pot in the 511 and have started to water it every other day and it's blooming and is putting out some leaf growth after I completely chopped it down to its bare twigs! It did take a while though. Here is the photo of it now if you're interested I don't have a before photo because it was literally just twigs not a one leaf on it and so was really too depressing to take its photo.

Alanna, can you take a closeup of the mix of the one doing their worst?

Al gave suggestions on how to keep the top as most as the bottom layer. Too, you could add a bit more water holding things and scratch into the top since it seems to me there is not enough moisture at the top.

Are you fertilizing a lot? I mean, every time you water?

Are you using a fertilizer with Calcium? Like Foliage Pro? If not, did you add lime to that mix when you made it?

Mike

'Tintori's mix looks different from the citrus and cactus mix in that it seems to have a gritty nature and so I imagine that it is more porous and less likely to compact. No?'

I wouldn't know since I have never seen either Tintori's or your mix in person. I just go by the video and see that it should be much denser than 5-1-1 mix.

I use a locally produced cactus mix which contains a large percentage of sand and I mix it with a coarse peat mix. Tintori's looks much denser than mine.

I intend to order a few trees from Tintori next season (next spring). If I do I will report on the mix. Those things are pretty expensive, shipping included, as they can be up to Euros 85 for a 22cm pot, which is a VERY steep price to pay for citrus in my book and where I come from, since citrus intended for in ground planting on appropriate stock sell locally for less than 10 Euros a piece retail. But they do sell many varieties which are impossible to find locally.

I have not read everything here but wanted to say how sorry I am about the tree. I have looked around and found something interesting and at least worth to read and then think about it https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/using-hydrogen-peroxide-to-treat-and-prevent-root-rot.707074/ Maybe it will help the tree to recover. I was so so sad when I lost some of my trees but loosing one after 35 years must be awful.

Nik, I agree with your statement completely. People grow container plants in all sorts of mixes, and do so very successfully. Like I previously wrote, the world's #-1 mix is the 3-1-1 (bark/peat/sand). Stan uses another very common mix, just plain bark and sand. I really don't know, but I would think 5-1-1, which I would call an OK mix, would be little known on a global bases. Bark, peat & sand are the three most ingredients in one combination or another .

I thought about using sand, but had a very hard time located coarse sand that didn't cost a million dollars

Alanna, was wondering if you saw the last few posts here directed at helping you. There were some questions asked and sympathies and not sure you even saw them.

Also, course sand can be found at Lowe's or Home Depot if you have one and at a pool store. They use it for filters. Too, you can use grit, granite as a substitute if you want to use a sandy type mater

Silica, you would be surprised at how many people know of the 511 mix all over the world. I think it's because of this form. I know some that live in the Arab world, Europe and other places abroad trying to use the same 511 mix or come as close as they can with the ingredients they have access to.. Crazy)

Vladimir, I hope that tree is doing better..

Is there anyway you could start a new thread and in the theme direct it to Al for help ? I think his expertise would help many many here. Please

ask him of he would do root work and how Would love it

Mike

Emily, post a picture of you baby tree, we can estimate it's age :))

Emily. What I would imagine is that you risk the vitality of the inner roots which are attached to the outer ones. Root rot in the center of the root mass is never a good thing.

That's why I'm hoping she posts this asking Al what to do. A root working expert )

2.5 -3 years old now, I would say.

Vlad it was great you took action to go further into the rootball to investigate why your calamondin wasn't doing well in the new container. I get scared to repot too incase I do something wrong and in my fear, sometimes I choose to do nothing and hope it passes but nothing can be fixed if we don't try to find some idea of what's going on under there!

It's also possible that it was so rootbound that the root mass itself played a large role in holding the soil in the center & compacted. I don't believe it was necessarily soil compaction alone that caused the root rot but the root density since it was already very rootbound in its original 16" yet looked to be healthy before the repot. I think the new mix around the rootball during your 2017 repot absorbed water easily which also caused a drastic difference in water absorption between the outer new mix and inner old mix. Probably due to the root density within the old mix, it would take much more water and time watering to soak the center root mass. But the new soil would readily moisten (visually as well) so it would be easy to believe through that visual cue that it was thoroughly soaked when it wasn't. I like the Jenny's idea of poking at the center soil mass to allow some water into the denser areas. I've done that before and it seems to help. Water is supposed to drain down the mix using the paths of least resistance right? So sometimes I also like to use a wooden skewer to carefully poke around the center root mass to create some paths of zero resistance for water to drain into!

Vladimir, how is your tree doing?

I think everyone agrees that root congestion limits growth, limits vitality, and when transitioning from the mildly rootbound stage to 'very rootbound', limits yields. It must then follow that correcting rootbound conditions w/o killing the tree or causing permanent damage to it is desirable. I've repotted a wide variety of trees in front of groups, and I find that almost every grower in the room has no idea that root congestion eventually kills their trees. There is also a common expression I see on the faces of people taking in the demo. I don't think that 'horror' describes it perfectly, but it's close. It borders on something like you would see if I was beating my dog in front of them. They almost want to intervene on behalf of the tree or whatever plant I'm repotting.

Occasionally I'll repot one of my own trees if the timing is favorable, but usually I would have arranged for a couple of people to bring a large failing tree of their own, Usually that will end up being a ficus or schefflera, but I've repotted trees of dozens of species in front of groups, and hundreds of species of my own trees. I always bring 5:1:1 and gritty mix to use after bare-rooting the trees, and I get the people's name so I can follow up re how the trees/plants are doing. So far, not one tree has died after the repot. On average, I'd say I repot 125 trees annually, and I've been doing it for about 30 years, so that's easily over 3,000 trees. My temperate zone trees are repotted in early spring, conifers follow the deciduous repots. Tropicals that are grown indoors (in winter) under lights are repotted mid-Jun to mid-Jul.

Last summer, I fully repotted a tree (Ficus benjamina) that was 45 - 47 years old (per the owner) and in a pot it took 2 men to tip on its side to get the tree out. The trunk was as thick as my thigh, so 7-8" in diameter. It was in an upstairs apartment, so there was no way to move the tree, so we repotted it on a tarp in the LR. I had visited her to look at the tree the week before. I had her completely defoliate the tree because I knew I was going to remove at least 75% of the root mass. I cut off the bottom half of the roots with an electric chain saw (wrecked it). Then, the owner intermittently used a Foggit nozzle on a hose (to keep the roots moist) and a shop vac to remove water from the tarp as I worked on the tree. I had severely pruned the top back before I started the root work. It took about 6 hours to bare-root the tree, then another hour or so to remove unnecessary roots and repot it. It could have gone into a pot half the size of the pot it was in, but we repotted into the gritty mix. If a mix doesn't hold perched water (or holds VERY little), or if you've taken steps to limit the impact of excess water retention (an example would be using pot-in-pot technique or ballast), it doesn't matter how large the pot is, you can't over-pot unless you almost intentionally over-water.

I mentioned the defoliation and hard pruning of the top prior to root work (or at the same time) because you cannot stretch conventional wisdom far enough to fit all cases, and those who suggest you can, lack the experience to support the contention. I've seen, over and over, trees that were root-pruned but the canopy not reduced when it should have been. No one disagrees with the noteworthy thought that leaves make food which supports root growth, but, when the canopy's water demands cannot be met by root system, the function of which has been temporarily limited by root work, the entire tree often collapses, or key branches die back as the tree goes through a balancing process of shedding parts it cannot support. Defoliation is an important tool to have available when you need it. Leaves grow back, but not when the tree is dead or when the branches they were on were shed. The truly wise and/or experienced do not allow themselves to be bound too tightly by current conventional wisdom.

Some repotting sequences:

This was the technique I used:

Another sequence:

Grown in gritty mix^^. Pre-pruned before work starts.

Root work complete - ready for a new and much smaller pot.

Generally speaking, the first time you bare-root a plant is the hardest. Unfortunate that the first isn't easiest so we could avoid that 'baptism by fire' thing. But wait, maybe there IS a way for some trees. What if you start while your trees are young? Young trees with small root systems are VERY easy to repot (fully). You simply remove roots growing straight down, straight up, roots growing back toward the middle of the root mass, + any circling, girdling, or j-hooked roots. Try to make your root system as flat as possible, which makes the next rootwork session easier.

Continued below >>>>>

Looks like I ran out of digital room on the post above.

Root work on the tree above almost completed:

The rootwork you do needn't be as radical as what I do. I've developed a very good feel for how far I can push a tree, based on its state of vitality and recent history. Since you don't really care what a root system looks like you needn't be so severe. Remember to always keep the roots wet while you work. Fine roots die within minutes if they dry out. Focus on removing the largest roots (with the few fine roots) not directly connected to the bole (base of the trunk flare), and making your root system fairly flat. Your goal is to increase the volume of fine roots in the pot. Fine roots do the lion's share of the work and are much more valuable to the tree. You only need fat roots enough to anchor the tree and serve as plumbing through which nutrients/water and photosynthate can flow.

I hope that was helpful. More info here. You can also ask questions and get input from other experienced repotters.

Al

I poured a gallon of 3% hydrogen peroxide through the soil mix and my calamondin has lost a about 10 leaves since I repotted. The remaining leaves look good. It is still in the shade. I will move it so it will get sun for 4 hours/day today.

Al, that looks like a work of art to me. There is a lot to bonsai culture and i do believe you got that pretty well cornered. I love to learn more about that.

Proper dilution rate for 3% H2O2 is 1/2 cup per gallon of water. I'll be surprised if the plant survives. Too late to flush the soil, too.

Something I wrote:

H2O2 has an extra O atom (compared to H2O) in an unstable
arrangement. It's the extra atom that makes it useful in
horticultural applications. Generally, we're not concerned with
aerobic forms of bacteria normally occurring in container media or on
roots.

Since H2O2 is an unstable molecule, it breaks down easily. When it
does, a single O- atom and a molecule of water is released. This O-
atom is extremely reactive and will quickly attach itself to either
another O- atom forming stable O2, or attack the nearest organic
molecule.

Reduced O levels and high temperatures encourage both anaerobic
bacteria and fungi. Many disease causing organisms and spores are
killed by O, and the free O- H2O2 releases is very effective at this.
Additionally, when plants growing in water-retentive media are
treated with H2O2 it will break down and release O into the area
around the roots. This helps stop the O from being depleted in the
water filled air soil air spaces until air can get back into them.
High O levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth
and discourage unwanted bacteria/fungi.

.

I know H2O2 comes in several different strengths, the most common
of which are 3% and 35% solutions. Least expensive is the 35% product
which you dilute (to an approximate 3% solution) by mixing 1:11 with
water. I have used the 3% solution at 1-½ to 2 tbsp per gallon as a
cutting dip/soak, and have mixed it into irrigation water for plants
in extremely water retentive soils at up to 3 tbsp per gallon, both
with good results and nothing adverse apparent.

H2O2 in high concentration is a powerful oxidant and quickly
oxidizes almost anything it contacts, so be careful with it if you
use it. A solution that is too strong can destroy any organic
molecule it contacts.

I’ve seen this chart posted several times as suggested strength
solutions for use in watering plants. You may wish to start at a
lower concentration , such as I’ve used, and experiment.

TO THIS AMOUNT OF WATER ADD THIS AMOUNT OF 3% HYDROGEN PEROXIDE
--OR-- ADD THIS AMOUNT OF 35% HYDROGEN PEROXIDE

1 cup, add 1-1/2 teaspoons … 35% - 7 to 10 drops

1 quart, add 2 tablespoons … 35% - 1/2 teaspoon

1 gallon, add 1/2 cup … 35% - 2 teaspoons

5 gallons, add 2-1/2 cups … 35% - 3 tablespoons plus 1
teaspoon

10 gallons, add 5 cups … 35% - 6 tablespoons plus 2
teaspoons

20 gallons, add 10 cups … 35% - 3/4 cup plus 1 tablespoon
plus 1 teaspoon

Al

Emily - horticultural "sand" is more like gravel than sand. People often confuse builders sand or sharp sand as horticultural sand, but builder's/sharp sand is still very fine.

The product on the left is screened Turface MVP, which is a high fired clay (ceramic) product and very stable.

If you are considering the use of sand in your mediums, I would suggest one of these products. Use the poultry grit/cherrystone if you want to reduce water retention w/o reducing aeration and drainage, and the Turface or calcined diatomaceous earth if you want to increase water retention w/o reducing aeration/drainage. Generally, the grit is around $7 per 50 lbs, the Turface is around $12 for the same weight.

You can use these coarse sands/grits mixed with an equal measure of your potting soil at the pot bottom if you think your soil is too water-retentive. Use the 50/50 mixture in the bottom 4-6" of of larger pots. Combing the grit with ballast and/or wicks is also very effective. Removing excess water from small pots requires only that you remember to remove it after flushing the soil. Hold a small pot you just watered over the sink and move it up and down. You'll immediately see you've validated Newton's first law of motion when you reverse the downward movement to upward. Excess water in the pot wants to keep moving downward, even as you reverse direction to upward, so water moves completely out of the pot. You can remove virtually ALL perched water using this technique.

Al

Thanks so much for sharing your root pruning process and the peroxide information Al! I've read the thread you linked awhile ago (trees in containers) but sometimes the information is forgotten in the back of my mind unless it's frequently applied in our gardening habits. I have a citrus tree that needs to be repot but it has a root that bends to one side at the soil instead of a proper 360 degree root flare at the trunk base. I'll definitely be referencing your photos and process for its repot. What was the function of that tourniquet in the root pruning/fixing process though?

The tourniquet was used as part of a layering strategy - really has nothing to do with root pruning insofar as this thread is concerned. It just happened to be on the tree I had taken pictures of to share when the topic of repotting comes up. My primary focus is bonsai, and as bonsai judge, I'm very aware of how important the appearance of the root system is to the o/a quality of the tree. Trees with ugly surface roots usually get only a passing glance and low scores, while trees with root systems like the one below are attention grabbers. We want our trees to look old/mature, and roots like those below add a lot of perceived age to a tree. If I think grafting new roots onto the base of the tree is going to take a lot of time/effort, I usually elect to do away with the original root system entirely and create a new root system above the old. The tourniquet blocks the downward flow of photosynthate/carbohydrates and auxin to roots. They accumulate in the tissue above the tourniquet and create a swollen area or root flare ('nebari', to a bonsai practitioner). Since the swollen area is rich in carbohydrates and auxin, rooting occurs easily and relatively quickly exactly above the tourniquet, as you can see.

This tree ^^^, Styrax japonica, aka Japanese snowbell, shown growing in gritty mix was from a cutting and also layered off of an ugly root system by the same method you asked about.

Al

Those trunks and root flares look amazing. I've never come across any bonsai that was not from a supermarket or nursery but these photos of the trunk and roots blows away all other bonsai wannabes. Thank you so much for explaining what the tourniquet does! I'm interested in root layering after you've explained it and may try practicing it if I feel my citrus tree's root system is too skewed to one side

A lopsided or one-sided root system is the norm for in situ trees, rather than the exception. It's doesn't impact the tree's vitality or growth - purely cosmetic; but, layering off top parts of the tree (branches) is a good way to exactly replicate the genetics of the parent plant. The downside of layering citrus is in that you'll then have a plant that's on its own roots instead of understock chosen for various reasons.

Good luck!

Al

Not as pretty as Al's roots but here is a Ficus mysorensis root flare with a 6 inch scale for reference. Wanted to repot it last year but never got around to it. I am hoping to do it in the next week or so. Thanks for letting me go off-topic :)

A very interesting tree in a number of ways, but at the top of it's most notable characteristics are the gorgeous buttressing surface roots the tree develops. I soo wish it had small leaves! It has really nice bark, too.

Al

Al, what is your prefer rooting gel or does it really makes no difference and also what was the longest time "you" had to replace your gritty mix, i am talking large containers, 15gl and up to 25. I have seen your list of progression of decline in tree's.

I left these comments on another thread somewhere, and decided to save them to a word document because questions about rooting aids arise so frequently:

I don't think it's appropriate to pitch a particular
brand or type of rooting hormone because different plant species
respond to different chemicals, whether we are cloning hardwood,
summer wood, or herbaceous/tip cuttings. Even though it's generally
true that the most effective concentration levels normally vary and
can be roughly grouped by the 3 types of cuttings you mentioned, the
most effective chemical to use also varies and can be much more
important than concentration levels; so, it is a combination of the
concentration AND the choice of chemical + type of cutting and time
of year that determines the effectiveness of a rooting chemical.

The rooting aids are synthesized forms of the
plant hormone/growth regulator 'auxin'. Indole butyric acid (IBA) and
naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) are the two most common chemicals that
have been found to be reliable in the promotion of rooting in
cuttings. IBA is widely applied in general use because it is
non-toxic to most plants over a wide range and promotes root growth
in a large number of plant species.

Some plants respond better to either IBA or NAA,
some respond to ONLY one or the other, some may have a toxic reaction
to one but not the other which will lead to poor or no growth and
actually, mortality; and some respond best to combinations of both
chemicals, or to other variations of either IBA or NAA based on K
(potassium). Both IBA and NAA are commonly available in talc or in
liquid formulations of varying concentrations.

I do 'lots' of propagating of
several hard-to-root species, but only use a rooting aid occasionally
for the most difficult. As a generalization, you should know on a per
plant basis which chemical and concentration is most apt to be
effective before applying it. I have found it mostly unnecessary.
Learning a little about the cultural conditions cuttings prefer and
some other tricks (like methods of wounding) along with cleanliness
will add more to what it takes to be successful at propagating
(plants) than rooting aids (except in the very hard to root plants).

******************************************************************************

There really is no limit to how long the gritty mix can resist the type of collapse that predictably occurs in media that consists of a very large fraction of very small organic particles and a very small fraction of inert ingredients, usually perlite. The reason for this centers on the fact that the breakdown of larger screened-to-size organic particles in the gritty mix that make up no more than 1/3 of the mix happens very slowly, and as it occurs, you still have an increasingly large fraction of inert media that provides structural stability indefinitely. I can say that the fraction of inert ingredients increases with time because it does. If you start with equal fractions (1:1:1 ratio) of screened Turface: screened grit: screened pine or fir bark, what happens to the 1:1:1 ratio when the organic fraction is reduced by half, to choose an arbitrary number? The ratio of the inert ingredients vs organic ingredients changes to 1:1:1/2, or 2:2:1 - same thing. As the organic 1/3 fraction is reduced by 1/2, the o/a inert fraction is doubled. So instead of 2:1 ratio of inert:organic ingredients in a fresh gritty mix, you have a 4:1 ratio of inert:organic ingredients after a period of time during which the volume of organic ingredients has shrunk by 1/2 in volume. The organic fraction of the gritty mix has a very small to nearly no influence on the medium's serviceability over time. In order for the soil to fail structurally, the inert ingredients would need to break down, and that can't realistically be expected to happen unless you put it through a crusher and reuse it.

A medium only needs to retain its structure for whatever length of time lapses between repots, and I refer to 'repots' specifically because they are much more involved than potting up. For the most part, plants in either the 5:1:1 or gritty mixes will need repotting long before there is a problem with the soil's structure. Presumably, you would be changing the soil when you repot, so, problem solved.

Al

Here is an update on my calamondin. It has stopped dropping leaves and is putting out new leaves and flowers. Some have set fruit. Branches that had lost all leaves are now putting out new growth.

What do you think? Is the tree going to be OK now?

Vladimir, that is wonderful news, the new growth all along the branches is a very positive sign! Great job!

Not to change the subject but is that elderberry I see in the last picture behind the branches?

AI, thank you ! I appreciate your willingness to help others and all of your very detailed, helpful and informative posts.

Vladimir - I would think that plants with such a mature root system like that would have a much better chance at coming back than a younger plant. Although not citrus, a case in point was when my sister first moved into her house and while we were trying to ID all the shrubs/trees/perennials that were there, we saw a persistently sprouting "something" near the creek at the bottom of her yard. She found that It was getting mowed to the ground continually by the landscapers so assumed it was some weed. Eventually in spring the following year when it re-sprouted again, she let it grow out a bit until we could look at the leaves to ID it - and the leaves were similar to that of a spirea. I helped her dig it up (there wasn't much to it, maybe about an 8" wide by 6" deep chunk of roots but those roots were thick). We moved it not far from a newly bought 2-gallon spirea that she had recently planted and by the end of that summer, the transplanted shrubette, had grown to half the size of the new spirea. The following year, the 2 plants were almost identical in size and growth and this "newly found" spirea even had the identical bloom color as the bought one.

So since your cal is sprouting all along the stems, I think it is on its way!!!! :-D

Looks like full strength (3%) hydrogen peroxide and rpotting might have done the trick.

Yes that is an elderberry. I have three of them. Two huge ones that I will have to cut back because they have taken over my wildflower/pollinator garden. I plan to make elderberry jam or wine with them.

Re the spirea. Living things cling to life, don't they? I love spirea. Have one next to my carriage house.

Vladimir - hope you have a Black Lace sambucus among your collection of 3. :-D

Jenny,

I know what those are!!! I have one..lol Seems you and I like the same plants! How about a Colanthra? Winter sweet? and one other@?!!!! Oh, boy, you need one of those! lolIf you like fragrant, these will blow your mind away. I have all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimonanthus

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=7DBzW8CMGNGSzwLW16-4Dw&q=winter+sweet&oq=winter+sweet&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4j0i10k1j0l2j0i10k1j0l2.2283.4531.0.5385.12.12.0.0.0.0.144.960.11j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.12.947...0i131k1.0.May9nQMcTDw

https://nurcar.com/collections/woodies-all/products/calycanthus-venus-pp15925

https://nurcar.com/collections/woodies-all/products/edgeworthia-chrysantha-winter-gold

https://nurcar.com/collections/woodies-all/products/edgeworthia-chrysantha-winter-gold

Vladimir, excellent work!

Jen, I have no idea which ones I have. I do know they smell lovely, especially in the early morning.

Thanks, Mike.

Vladimir, so good to see that your tree is growing and flowering. I learned a lot about large potted trees, the root care for them from this thread. Thank you and everyone who shared their experiences on large trees! This is one of my favorite threads in the forum!

I’m so happy to hear the good news about your tree Vlad!! Congratulations on saving it’s life!

Great that your plant is doing well. Looks like it dropped leaves low down and kept the upper ones - apical dominance strikes again. Is that so?

Also I would not bank on using 3% peroxide in general. Perhaps just the large amount of organic material saved (buffered) the living roots. I would have started with say 1/8 of the strength and used it several times spread out over a period. 3% will attack living tissue too especially if they are thin membranes. For mouth wash recommended is 1% for 60 seconds - at least that is what my dentist says with associated ample warning of exceeding the recommendation.

Anyway, good that your plant is doing fine.

LOL @ Mike. I have some more citrus coming today and if I try to put anything else out there, I won't be able to step out the back door. Thanks for the links to that because I have been slowly building a 3-season bloom garden in my tiny space and that looks like a good alternative to witch hazels for winter blooms! I have an itea (Virginia sweetspire "Henry's Garnet") for spring fragrance.

Vladimir - the Black Lace sambucus has dark, finely cut foliage & pink flower clusters and is often recommended for people who like the look of dwarf Japanese maples but may who might have hardiness issues with those. It's a great elderberry! Picture of it here - https://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/3037/black-lace-elderberry/

It is a beautiful plant but I have nowhere to put it. Does it spread by underground suckers the way the regular elderberries do?

Vladimir - You sound like me and you have a yard! lol That sambucus does have some suckering but not as much as other cultivars. Plus once it is established, they do well with rejuvenation pruning so you can chop it back pretty good. I've seen some beautiful specimens around my neighborhood and they are good standalone ornamental shrubs - especially in spring when they are blooming... plus they have that rich dark intricate (feathery) foliage the rest of the growing season when planted in a sunny location.