spedigrees: Limestone varies in magnesium content. If you go to your local agricultural store--I am not sure what you have up there--and ask for “high mag limestone“--crushed or pulverized--they should be able to direct you. The analysis is always posted on the bag. Dolomitic limestone is generally “high-mag,” but perhaps other types of limestone have a high magnesium content. Our soils here in the northern Shenandoah Valley are very high in magnesium, and high mag limestone underlies a good portion of our soils, and high mag limestone is readily available. And, almost all the NS in this area look very nice, in spite of our hot, dry climate. As for soil acidity--that should not be a problem for Norway spruce, unless the soil is extremely acidic, maybe in the low 4’s. At my timberland, where the soils are a bit below 5, Norway spruce does very well. I am not sure what an optimum pH would be, and it would probably vary with soil type. Maybe somewhere in the 5.5 range is "safe." As for magnesium for Norway spruce--this has been fairly well documented. I titled my original post “a hypothesis,” but there is substantial evidence. A site factors study done at SUNY Syracuse some years ago now, noted that “at least 75 kg per hectare” is needed for good NS growth. Studies in Europe, where there has been extensive decline in NS forests, has shown that the acid rain causes a reduction in the availability of magnesium, and supplementing magnesium often solves the problem. And, I have made some personal observations--not scientific, and without all the facts--that magnesium supplementation can make a dramatic difference. But, the main effect of magnesium may not be in height growth, but in the fullness, density, and lushness of the foliage. I have seen many poor looking, thin foliaged NS trees growing reasonably fast in height. Also, the thin foliage on some Norway spruce trees has causes other than a lack of an optimum supply of magnesium. And, I know, some of that is genetic, and not correctable. As for your experiment: Yes, 5 years should be long enough to show some results, but no sooner. The limestone has to dissolve into the soil, get down to the roots, and, because NS hold their needles for several years, the "thickening" of the foliage may not be vis1ble for several years. BUT, and this is a big "but," the effect may not really show up on very young trees. It may help the growth rate, but as for foliage density, that is never really noticeable until trees are somewhat older and larger--maybe not until they are 20 feet tall or more will any difference be really clear. As for the growth rate: white pine usually starts growing faster than NS. How old are your trees? How tall? NS trees don't begin to grow fast until they are about 4.5 feet high, and that could be only after 6 to 8 years. At that point, they should "take off." On the best soils, and in the right climate, an average of 28 inches is possible, with some years the new shoots elongating up to 4 feet or more. But growth averaging 20 to 24 inches is good for many sites. Norway spruce and white pine, assuming equally good strains, should grow equally well over the first 50 years. The white pine up to about 18 years should outgrow the NS, but after that NS should catch up a bit. After 50 years NS should outgrow the white pine for some years. SUNY Syracuse did a growth curves study for NS, and found that for the first 60 years--after the trees reach 4.5 feet in height, there is no "curve" as such, but a straight line. White pine growth curves bend sharply over to the right after the first 18 years or so, and at 50 years the growth averages about 1 foot, while at the same age, NS trees can still be growing 28 inches per year. But this rate does begin to decline not too long after the 60-year mark. On the best sites both should eventually make 150 feet or more in forest stands. Open grown NS should make 120 feet or more on better sites. As for the blue spruce and magnesium, I really don't know. Tom may be right about this. --spruce

I think Bob confused the Picea abies 'Farnsburg' and 'Frohburg'. Dax's discription is from the first one. 'Frohburg' will allways make a leader of it's own even without staking it. Also the needles are longer then it's motherplant 'Inversa'. Mr. Hall from Aarburg, Switzerland selected the following weeping selections from 'Inversa' seedlings around 1975: -'Aarburg' -'Farnsburg' -'Frohburg' -'Wartburg' 'Aarburg' is the most fast growing one and 'Farnburg' is the most slow growing one. The growing rates of 'Froburg' and 'Wartburg' is in between those 2. At the photo I show you the 'Aarburg' (the big weeping form)and in front the 'Farnsburg'(the small weeping form)

Well, I am a Norway spruce "nut," and have seen lots of them in all kinds of conditions, but for this one I can't really imagine what you are describing. Any chance of a picture? Only two things seem like possibilities to me. First, any chance this is one of the weeping varieties of Norway spruce that unless staked will bend over and grow downwards? When these are bought in the spring they often have erect leaders, then when they start to grow the first growing season, the leader will begin to bend over. The side branches generally grow downwards, with the tips of the new growth having a turn outwards as if they want to grow upright, but they never do. The other possibility is what you are seeing is just the weeping of secondary branches, which is natural to a lot of Norway spruce trees. But if this is the case, the main branches should, perhaps, be angled downwards just a little, and then as they go away from the tree, have a "sweep," a curve outward and upwards towards the ends of the branches. The branchlets that grow from the sides of the main branches can droop or hang downwards. This is a natural Norway spruce growth form. If the tree were sick, the needles would be falling off. A Norway spruce tree is not going to have its branches "wilt" and droop downwards, even if it is dying. They are woody branches and will hold their position. Actually, a NS branch is more likely to curve upwards as it dies. Once in a while I will see a NS with branches with the sweep I describe above, but then the ends of each branch, perhaps involving two years worth of growth, will have a bit of a droop. This is also a natural variation of some NS trees. --Spruce

at that age ... they are too large to move .. and no tree should be 2 feet from a house ... want to see the pix.. but i bet the answer is.. they both need to go ... that said.. you could just start learning how to prune on them.. and see where you get ... i highly doubt they created the foundation crack ... but they could take advantage of it.. in the ensuing decades ... ken