Dave--(or anyone else?): I am really confused by these "weeping" Norway spruce cultivars. You show one picture of a 'Reflexa' that was not staked but is growing erect, then another picture of the same kind of tree that had to be staked. So, does this tree grow erect sometimes, and not all the time? As for the P. abies 'Frohburg' I find confusing statements. You say it needs to be staked or it will grow prostrate. Iseli nursery, and a couple of other places on-line, says it is an upright grower. Elsewhere I see a cultivar name P. abies 'Frohburg Prostrata,' with the 'Prostrata' sugggesting a flopping tree. So what am I supposed to think? Now in the Gotelli collection at the National Arboretum in DC they have two P. abies 'Inversa' trees. Both of these have picturesque irregular habits, but they are definately not prostrate. One, or I think both, have multiple erect trunks growing upright with severely pendulous side branches. I would like to grow one of these, but several sources say they will not grow upright. I have also seen another P. abies 'Inversa,' or so it is labelled, in the courtyard of the Winterthur museum in Delaware. This tree is also growing upright without any staking. And there is another similar tree growing prominently in the National Memorial Park in Fairfax, VA, but this tree has no label at all. I don't know if you have seen my postings in the trees forum under the topic "Large Willow" where I comment on the rampant confusion about golden weeping willows, but I may be even more confused and frustrated in trying to get information about the growth habit of these so-called weeping varieties of NS. I want to grow one or more, but what do I buy? And from whom? Are those I saw labelled 'Inversa' actually something that I can buy as 'Inversa," or is that an incorrect name? And this 'Frohburg' thing? Is there a 'Frohburg' that grows erect, and then another that is 'Frohburg Prostrata' that must always be staked--or which is more properly meant to grow along the ground. Of course, I assume that any of these that are potentially erect growers probably must be staked for a time, but from what I have seen with my own eyes (at the Nat Arb, and at Winterthur, and at the Nat Mem Park), at least one, and maybe more than one of these cultivars, can grow on their own after a period of time being staked, in at least some irregular erect fashion. So, is 'Inversa' one of these? Or 'Frohburg' or what? I have seen them, want one, but what one, or ones is/are it/they?? H E L P!! this is driving me nuts!! --Spruce

You know to plant or not to plant and when to plant is a decision that has to be made individually. We all have our different methods and free advice to give. As for me I don't leave them in the pots all summer to become more root bound with continued growth held in check because of the restricted environment it is being subjected to. The longer grown in this state the more compromised the conifer becomes over time. If put in the ground, planted properly, and cared for I have always experienced better results. I plant all growing season. Of course climate and even micro- climate plays a big part in success or failure and where you live should be taken into consideration. Transplanting is a different issue all together. Either Fall or early Spring is the only time to do this. 4-5 ft. trees do not need to be staked unless you are training them for vertical growth. Once you have a dominant leader then the need for staking is over. This is not to say it will grow a completely straight vertical trunk. It bends and twists on it's upward growth which is the nature of this conifer. Lateral growth will be substantial as the tree matures. I have two of them. One puts out twice as much lateral growth as the other. There seems to be no consensus on the true identity of this cultivar. It takes on so many forms mostly irregular, erratic, semi-prostrate, mounding, etc. Purchased in 1-2 year old grafts you can decide how you want them to grow. This conifer is sold in most Nursery's under the cultivar name as 'Pendula'. Correct cultivar name is 'Reflexa'. Get them in the ground and start enjoying. Always a great focal point conifer. Dave

While trying to tie it before planting I broke off the central leader. ==>> been there... done that ...lol .... live and learn.. both you and the tree ... (quite devastated). ==>>> nonsense.. perhaps you feel guilty.. so what.. as i said.. live and learn .. I understand the devastation. ==>> i dont anymore.. after the first time.. lol ... listen to me... and i will yell for emphasis ... ALL TREEs WILL RE-LEADER ... period ... if it dies.. it will be from IMPROPER PLANTING ... IMPROPER WATERING... or IMPROPER AFTERCARE/MULCHING ... you will give it.. upwards of 3 years... to sort itself out.. and THEN YOU WILL 'THINK ABOUT' HOW TO TRAIN IT ... i can send you an application for the WEIRDER THE BETTER CLUB.. if you wish .. i founded said club.. after doing it myself the first time... lol ... [well.. actually after the third time... lol.. i am a slow learner ...lol] the real question here.. is why you were trying to tie it up.. BEFORE PLANTING .... i bet you were focused on training it.. rather than getting it planted.. and established .... get it to live first.. THEN worry about training it.. as the years roll by ... please refer to the link.. to insure you did everything PROPER .... and if not... lets discuss it .... lastly ... and this is why i gave you the link.. why were you planting an 8 foot tree.. in july???? .. i know there are places that are much more forgiving than MI in july/august.... but even so.. there are better times to do such .... refer to the link for PROPER WATERING... as that will determine.. if it lives.... and.. no fert EVER... it will not help a stressed plant.. ever..... and a newly planted 8 foot conifer.. is stressed..... well.. i suppose it 4 to 5 feet now ... learn to laugh at yourself... live and learn... get it to live.. we can work on it as the years roll by ... BTW.. a pic might get slightly different answers .. but not much ... ken Here is a link that might be useful: link

Ken thanks for jumping in to assist. I see now that I did not offer enough information so I will answer all your questions 1 by 1. Later on today I will take some photos & post them. I can not right now as it is raining hard. 1. As for the pots. They are the typical black pots that the nurseries use to display the specimens for sale. The sizes of each are listed below next to the description/size of each plant. 2. My location is zone 6a in Pennsylvania between Allentown & the Poconos. 3. About my soil, it is terrible, a mix of clay & pulverized shale, I'm in the Slate Belt area. For all my landscaping I have brought in literally "tons" of enriched topsoil, compost etc. which I have ammended to the planting areas, turning in deeply & well. I have been working on this soil for many years. Right now there is an area in the rear of home (shaded most of the day, early morning sun only) that is ready for planting, drainage would be good & the hose bib is close by if needed. 4. Well if size matters, here goes..... (all measurements taken from where soil & truck meet to top of specimen) Norway Spruce #1 is 3' tall in a black 12"w x 9"h pot. Norway Spruce #2 is 2 1/2' tall in a black 10"w x 9"h pot. Boxwood Spiral is 3 1'2' tall in a 15"w x 12" h pot. 5. When I take the photos later today I will tip these babies out of the pots & shoot photos to show the condition of the roots. 6. Now as for the bargain, the Norwood Spruce were $7.50 ea. & the Spiral Boxwoods were $8.50 ea. At those prices I thought I would give it a try to bring them home & hopefully be able to save them from danger. Even though I am a novice & will follow direction & work hard to protect these guys. My ground is not frozen at this point & I do have a nice shaded area behind my house. I am not sure how you "make sure to keep them dormant", watering, mulching etc in this situation. Any education/input would be greatly appreciated.