Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond. I can't tell you how helpful it is to get out of my own head on these issues. pam - great input. My realtor said the kitchen definitely needs updating (although she doesn't like the idea of giving up the dining room area) and we just had the house appraised. I know we won't get our money back but we're partly remodeling for us since it looks like we'll be here longer than planned. (Getting 50% back would be ideal)Yes - I did draw in a "hall table" and maybe there is also room for a tiny bench/drop area on the left of the front door if I build a little wall there (full or half). renovator - Overview of the lot is below. We are already past our side setbacks on the back corners which means we could only bumpout in the middle of the back of the house. We did not seriously pursue this given the house's layout (it would effect almost every room on both floors in a weird way) and the fact that there is a raised flagstone patio along the back of the house (with steps down to a small lawn) which is one of its nicer points. The yard is small but a nice point of the house and with 3 kids we use it. ANd we knew we were updating the kitchen so to rip out both ends of the house sounded $$$. The "views" are mainly from the back of the house. The front of the house is close to a street and not too private, but we had space to push out on the porch and a little on one side of the house which this plan uses. House is 2 stories on a hill (bottom levels has office, bath and family room with french doors to patio). Hill slopes down from right to left on these plans and from front of house to back. I am having trouble uploading an elevation. And what kind of pictures would help? Interiors? Here is a pic of the house: kirkhall - thanks for your vote and for encouraging me to push the full bath! I can't tell you how exciting it is to contemplate not sharing a bathroom with 3 children... elizawhyza - Talk to me about the box window...the original plan (if you scroll up to my first post) actually has a box bumpout of 1.5 feet (with a bay window) that the table is moved towards. The reason I changed it to bay in this version was 1) I centered the table (for several reasons) and 2) I lost my island stools and I really wanted a seating option that was NOT the table for people to "hang" in the kitchen. I also thought I could build in storage underneath the window seat and also use it as an end banquette if ever necessary for bigger dinners. But - do you think it would really make the space feel bigger to do a box window? What would you put in that space? I will definitely play with the island size. I can't go longer than 4 feet parallel to table but I can go down to 2 or 2.5 feet across and would definitely consider that for more room for 5 people to get around in there... Appreciate all your comments!! Keep them coming...

In my job I have to come up with solutions that can be done on-site with the stuff we have available. Steam bending is very cool, but it would require a caul (form) other than the walls themselves. What I'm thinking of could use the room as the form. I'd try 1/8" plywood (perhaps 1/4" would bend to 14ft dia. Lumberyards also sell a plywood product made just for this application. It's $40/sheet at my supplier) laminated with glue (titebond II) This could be applied directly to the walls, provided that the surface is uniform with no voids at the base or flat spots. The sections could be held tight to the wall with blocks screwed to the floor. (overlay with plywood to protect existing floor if necessary) If you could get a veneer plywood of the desired species, that would be used as the last lamination to "show". You would want to be able to dress the edges of this glue-up somehow after it dried, so don't glue it to the wall, and use some wax paper on the floor to release the glue, have some egress route planned for the assembly once its dry, or make it a bit longer so it can be cut in two for machining, then reassembled in place (biscuits). I just did a small curved-top cabinet using 1/8" lauan as the bendy-board. The amazing thing was, unlike with steam bending I've done, there was no spring-back with the ply-laminate. The room has, what, 38+ feet of base? That's a lot of material to steam bend; brick, what length of steam box would you want to use? The real problem I've observed w/steam bending is that the middle of the board gets the curve easily- it's the ends that are a beeatch; there's no "leverage" available to help with the bend; for windsor chair arms, there's no problem- their ends are straight anyway, but architectural curves need to be conistent, so there's going to be some waste at the ends of each section. Bandsawing out solid wood is going to be a tremendous amount of waste, and result in short sections. But it would be the way to go to add a solid border to the top of the base in which to run a moulded edge detail, without exposing plies. I forgot to mention that flextrim comes in at least two finishes- smooth and wood-grain, so that you could antique/glaze it to bring out the molded grain effect. In the end, there are also businesses who specialize in curved woodwork, and will be happy to take your money for any molding profile in any wood you want. Disadvantage other than the $$ is lead-time, shipping, potential for mistakes. Casey

...the 35" aisles are actually wider than most doorways. True, but it's narrower than a hallway (code is 36" in my neck of the woods). But I'm not sure what this has to do with the kitchen. It's still less than NKBA recs (although just barely) and given how you generally abide by them and post them here often, I'm surprised that you strayed from them in 2 of your plans. If that's a major path from garage or bedrooms to the rest of the house, I wouldn't want it to be too meager. (twn85, where does that hallway lead to?) You and I differ about fridge placement. I'd rather not have it blocking or taking up what could be great dish storage near the table. If the fridge is on the back wall to the right of the island, I don't see how someone going to the fridge will get in the cook's way. It's still at the perimeter. btw, I'm betting the window is about 2' in because the sink is right in the corner. And I'm betting the wall oven is to the left of the sink. Lovely home, twn85! Looks like you have a great space to work with. But, uh, that is one weird room divider in that kitchen. It looks like a wooden version of old-time bank teller bars. How do you access your back yard? Oh, and I just realized that you gain 4.5" to your space. You gave us dimensions for the kitchen and for the DR but since that wall is coming down, those inches are added to the overall space.

oh my goodness, so many responses! thank you so much everyone for your generosity with your creativity. :) thanks very much tbb for the 3d renderings. i will have to use the ikea tool myself. love the baking station idea too - those metal shelves could actually double as cooling racks! debrak - oops.. duh. obviously i am new at this! thanks. :) deedles - i like everything about your rendering. i think we might go in that direction. you convinced me the pantry fridge is the way to go. technicolor - i'll second lyfia. i used to have about 10 inches next to a stove and it was SO handy. our baking sheets were stored underneath, and narrow open shelves for oils and spices above. rosie - what excellent thoughts, thank you so much. i agree, extra deep on the short side of the L would be great, and then clearance between counter and cabinets wouldn't be too big of an issue (i really prefer a lot of clearance over working surfaces - but then you tradeoff for storage space). i like the idea of the floor to ceiling pantry on the left, but i also wonder if i should put counter/cabs there. would i use it? would it obstruct traffic flow? tough choice. leaning towards pantry. clueless- love your rendering.. and in fact, that window probably needs to be replaced anyway (garden window= leaky/condensation). i think we might do exactly what you recommended! now i just need to decide where the sink and stove go! thanks all :)