If the 18” trash pullout was in the prep zone where cpartist suggested, (sink peninsula plan) I was thinking you would also have a secondary smaller trash by the bar somewhere too for the reason you mentioned.

If you would rather the bigger trash to go on the end of the countertop area on the pantry wall and not lose the blind corner pullout, then I was thinking a second pullout trash could go under the sink on one side, sort of like this.

Hmmm, let me think about your idea for the corner. 🤔

Rebunky's plan is far superior to yours IF you like to cook. If you're just looking for pretty (which is fine!) then do yours and don't give it another thought.

As for the trash, most kitchen trash is generated where we prep. If you go with rebunky's plan, do the 2 trash cans as she suggested.

Did I tell you how much I love gadgets?
Make The Most of Dead-Corner Kitchen Space With a Storage Lift

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7eS7mAenCw

@Paul F. before putting your refrigerator all the way in the corner next to the wall, please check the specs for your fridge model to see how much space you need to open the doors completely. After all this work and planning, it would stink if you couldn't fully open the left side door. Rebunky's idea avoids that issue, or adding a narrow pullout between the wall and fridge should give you enough room.

Since nobody asked me … I’ll jump in anyway.

SINK on window wall.
TRASH cupboard on sink end of peninsula.
DISHWASHER next to trash unit. There will be drips. You will wipe them up. Yes, I thought so. (I did when I had this set-up.)
Small-ish (under 40” or so) counter-level ROLLING CART large enough to hold a second trash can for helpers.

1. Use cart to block friendly but unwelcome access to main kitchen during events. Hint: park between peninsula and bar area.
2. Else use it to get hot things to/from cooktop or other landing spot.
   2.1) Else park it in the pantry.
   Frame your slab BACKSPLASH to suit your taste.

You are welcome … to take or ignore my suggestions.
Thanks for this set of threads.

I haven't read all the comments.

Things in my kitchen I would need.

1. counter space between refrigerator and sink. Both for unloading groceries and taking things out to prep, making a sandwich, etc.

If you switch the ovens and refrigerator you get the counter space to the right. Putting a counter to the left of the ovens: I normally take something out of the oven and walk it over to the prep or stove area. Not take it out, set it on the counter then pick it up to move to a serving area. I think the space to the left of the ovens will not be used much and would be much more valuable next to the refrigerator.

2. I would put an oven under the range top. Put your steam oven etc down on the left end of that run. Then refrigerator, then counter.

3. The sink/dishwasher. Rethink this. Can the peninsula be moved over a bit toward the living room? I know this would throw off the straight line from the mini fridge and wine fridge, but it's broken up by the walkway. I have a similar situation and thought it would drive me crazy, I don't even notice it. Second option, sink/DW in peninsula.

4. Where are you going to store your dishware and glasses etc? The cabinet to the right of the range would work. I don't like the cabinet going down to the counter especially as it look to be 24" depth, that's a lot of wasted counter space where you really need it.

I understand your fabulous stone wall idea and think it would be stunning. What if you put a regular sized wall cabinet to the counter? Or, if your cabinets are wood, put the same wood below the cabinet to the counter. That would give the visual of being framed but give you counter space.

I know you have a lot of storage space in the pantry, but you really need somewhere in the kitchen area for pots/pans and dish storage. I don't see much "easy to reach" storage aside from both side of the range area, and next to the dishwasher.

Someone might bring up the issue of if you did have a range oven and put the dishwasher across from it they would block the kitchen if both were opened at the same time. I wouldn't worry about that, just don't open them at the same time. It's really basically a one person kitchen anyway.

I really liked the look of your old kitchen, and sympathize with your fire ordeal. What a pain to deal with insurance and 3 years out of your home. Your new kitchen will be spectacular if you do the stone slab back splash. I'm excited to watch your progress and hope you post a lot of photos.

Between the paragraph break, and before 2.1)

Use cart was supposed to be labeled 1)
Else use was supposed to be labeled 2)

Consider a narrow 12-15” wide tall pull out next to wall by the frig. Solves the opening issue and provides great storage. They hold more than you think.

In case you feel like gettin a lil crazy:

Did I tell you how much I love gadgets?
Make The Most of Dead-Corner Kitchen Space With a Storage Lift

OK, that is very cool!

@Rabbitt Design, you kill me when you do that. Haha, seeing my environment so expertly rendered right there.... such a display of power. ;P I like a little more counter space next to the range so I widened it it in photoshop. I've dreamed about doing bookmatch somewhere. It will cost me though. I can see my coffee bar idea working in that cabinet on the right... either opening entirely OR rising from under the counter. Did I tell you... I like gadgets!

If I put a 12 inch cabinet to the left of the frig then it I'd have to get a 36" frig and/or get a 30" cooktop to make room and then adjust the drawer width for symmetry. A smaller frig isn't out of the question but the 36"Thermador is the same price as the 42" Dacor frig... just with less features. The 30" Thermador induction cooktop is 8 months out and the 36" is just 4 and that is an issue for me.

I actually put the combo frig/freezer drawers to help address the 'kitchen triangle' but it didn't help much I guess. I also put the counter across from the frig to address a 'landing area' issue... and you just want more! :P TWO garbage pull outs? Are you nuts? I'm kidding, but seriously I've never heard of two trash pullouts in such modestly sized kitchen. Is it common?

The ranges don't have what I consider the latest tech with induction... the whole surface being active as with Thermador, Gaggenau or the unreleased Miele 7000. Also, I NEED a microwave, I use mine every day and I don't want it on the counter. I need room for my feathery things on the counters.

Regarding Rabbitt's rendering... the drawers being 30+ inches are better than less usable 24". Right?

Well cr@p Rabbitt. Why did you have to go and do that? Mic drop!

You know the famous line, ”Badges? We don’t need no stinkin’ badges!”

My mind just said, ”Function? We don’t need no stinkin’ function!”

😂

That is stunning! And your narrow sides pieces framing out the stone with the shelves and hidden cabinet above was exactly what I envisioned.

Rabbitt Designs, I hope you don’t mind me tweaking your design a little.

Paul, I was really hoping you would go for a bit of a compromise where you kept maybe the front half of countertop open in that corner. I thought it would be nice if you could have enough space to at least slide a chopping board of ingredients from the sink over to the side of the cooktop. I just am imagining icky stuff like raw chicken juice dripping on the floor as you move it. But when you think about it, really, how hard is it to pick up a board and carry it over a couple steps?

But, instead of that totally cool pop up counter coffee bar going in the back corner, I would put it in the blind corner on the peninsula side.

Rebunky, I am absolutely looking at all my options here as the clock ticks down. Your amazing adjustments to rabbitt's amazing render would be hard to accomplish with one slab so the concept of two bookmatched slabs is the option. The bookmatch would be off-center behind the cooktop since it throws off the spacing OR would you center it?. Also, I must have upper cabinets to hide the vent liner... there is no space in the ceiling. The lift could still go in the corner in your design rebunky.

You both have some Ps skillzzzz! Ha.
@rebunky my notes on function: I hear you. Also, I wouldn’t be bothered by it.
I personally prep at my peninsula, as I prefer facing an open room vs facing a wall, no lie, that’s my everyday. I cook like a line cook, and put my preppings into a bowl and the bowls are on a tray and I transfer. It’s probably not ideal, but i never stopped to think about it.
I actually have the space to prep next to my range but my preference is still to face my beautiful dining room and/or guests. That’s just me. My mothers kitchen has very short counters on either side of her range and I don’t think either of us ever been bothered by it. So my trade off is this… if I already don’t feel like I would prep at that counter at Paul’s, then I would rather keep the balance and make it a focal point. That was the thought in that layout. I also pushed the peninsula into the adjacent room closer to the exterior door. Much better setup with the sink and associated/required cabinet players:) the jog wouldn’t bother me. VERY fun to see you’re responses and imaginations spark.

I personally prep at my peninsula, as I prefer facing an open room vs facing a wall, no lie, that’s my everyday. I cook like a line cook, and put my preppings into a bowl and the bowls are on a tray and I transfer. It’s probably not ideal, but i never stopped to think about it.

Unlike you, I would hate to prep at the peninsula and then carry the food to the cooktop. I prep between my prep sink and my cooktop so it's easy to slide the food over like rebunky suggested

Paul needs to decide which is more importantl ideal prepping (function) or looks. No wrong answer but what works for him.

In reality I prefer rebunky's version all around because it makes the stone even more of a focal point without "hemming" it in while still keeping function.

Paul, while not idea, they do make a hood that fits in a ceiling as long as the ceiling, You could put that in the "ceiling" where the lights are in rebunky's version.

“ideal prepping (function) or looks. No wrong answer but what works for him.”
ha, no wrong answer, but my way is ideal, said @cpartist probably. I am teasing but this is starting to feel a bit like a cool-kid party only. "hate" is such a strong word.

The "looks" is absolutely a completely functional kitchen, so that's not the trade off that your language implies. I find that working at a counter against a wall less than ideal, and if I were someone's client, I would really want them to hear me on that and think about it from my perspective for a second, and not just railroad me. I have this “ideal” prep counter at my house and I use it to host plants. I find prepping and being able to look up and see an open beautiful space very pleasurable, far more pleasurable than looking at a cabinet a few inches from my face or a stone 2' feet away… and for the 3 seconds of immeasurable discomfort in my night that it takes to move my prep, I will trade it for the half second of convenience if it means I get to feel unburdened by a closed in feeling while dicing away.

Can we be really true about something… this kitchen that I rendered, is absolutely functional. I believe Paul is from California, maybe LA if I remember our convo. Where most houses are 1500 sq ft and a big kitchen doesn't exist. We may be used to these smaller kitchens and simply aren't bothered by perceived inconvenience. What I can say about this kitchen is that it is short on box volume. So if someone thinks they are gaining better function out of 26" more of counterspace then then may be forgetting that they are losing 23 cubic feet of storage in a kitchen already short on storage.

I can cook for hours in a kitchen and could name a few things that take less than a couple minutes of time for me. Moving food from fridge to a prep counter, and moving prep to a cooking zone. I will not design kitchens based on the least amount of time spent in that kitchen, that's just not my approach or focus. I want to feel good in my kitchen, calmly cooking away, chatting, enjoying my time, and that is my focus.
In regards to the edits on the slab, I don’t agree that it looks better, it looks very much out of balance to me, a funny sliver of color to the right and a weighted amount of cabinets to the left and pulling the center of slab away from the walking path to the kitchen all pulls this out of balance. Just my opinion, if we had to have it this way, and I was the designer, I would work hard to get the balance back into the walks of travel. I want to be pulled into a space in the direction that the space is leading me. In this case, I want to pull left to discover more of the house, but the edited design tends to lead me right, just my perspective. If I were to kick everything right, then I would continue slab to corner and back around and wrap the corner in some way.

@Paul F. I did put a drop soffit in that design it can be as small or as large you need depending on how custom you want to get with your venting. I hid it by adding a white flat stock molding at the top of the cabinets and across the face of the soffit. I would use a flat vent and a pickup fan in another location if I wanted to get super custom with this.

No matter what but I always prefer to have my dishwasher very next to my sink. You don't want to drip water or carry those pre-rinsed or dirty pots and pans sink to dishwasher.

@Paul F. Here was the peninsula. I really spent next to no time considering this, so I might think about that dishwasher a bit more.

@Rabbitt Design, can you spin up a layout of my kitchen into a 3D rendering like this too? We need some help in visualizing our kitchen and your renderings are neat and clean.

Rabbitt Designs, I respect you opinion on the slab edit. The more I look in detail at it, I actually think both designs could be improved upon. I will try and explain my thoughts on this rendering you did.

If I am being honest, I find that the narrow strip of wood you have on the left side going down to the floor in the corner looks like a ”funny sliver of color” too!🫣

It is like that strip of wood cuts a hole right through the countertop so they are now two pieces. It bothers me because I find it stopping my eye as it starts at the amazing backsplash, and then flowing in either direction around the U shape when the countertop is it divided in half like that. My eye naturually goes to the right because the next thing drawing attention is the window. Hope that makes sense.

I am far from a professional, but just someone with a “slight” perfectionist tendancy when it comes to symmetry and flow. So to me something like this feels pretty well balanced and symmetrical and I think it frames out the slab of stone nicely.

What I like better about this one is that I feel like the flow continues around the space. I like how the two narrow strips are now sitting on top of the countertop with the white counter showing underneath on both of the sides of the two nooks. They connect with the row of cabinets at the top, reminding me of a fireplace mantle sitting on top of a marble hearth. Hope that makes sense.

Paul I centered the range. I noticed you switched to the ge cafe range. That would be great!

Also I made the two lower cabinets on the left side of the range equal to the one on the right. (In theory)

The four upper cabinets are centered to the middle of the range and then the middle of the two lower cabinets on either side. I am sure there are plenty other details, but wanted to throw this idea in the mix.

ETA: sorry so many typos!

No matter what but I always prefer to have my dishwasher very next to my sink. You don't want to drip water or carry those pre-rinsed or dirty pots and pans sink to dishwasher.

Agree.

Also agree 100% with rebunky's reasoning.

Ok, I need time to digest all that happened here today. haha! I appreciate all design thought and the input. My kitchen used to be just the back wall 36" sub-zero, undercounter microwave, a 48" Wolf range (too big) and a 5' island where the peninsula is planned... there was no overhang for stools. I never once thought the kitchen was too small but I did miss having a counter for stools. Despite the whole base cabinet in the corner being taken up with heating duct work I never felt as though I had a storage problem with my massive pantry.

There used to be a door out the of the kitchen... silly seeing as how it was 6 feet from the 8 foot double doors. So why not make it a window and sprawl a little too, put a counter to connect to the island? Easily doubling my usable counter space. My concern is that as the kitchen design I have made has grown and it is getting too big for the 1000 sqft small lower floor. I admit it might be totally unfounded. I was very hesitate to add the counter across from the frig for that reason. I had 4 feet from counter to counter in the old kitchen (I think) and I thought I was 'getting wild' adding a foot in width AND a 14" overhanging counter! Maybe it's stockholm syndrome and I don't know what a good kitchen is?

I have a VR headset I wish I could view the lower level with it to see if the living area is all crazy weighed in the direction of an eye popping kitchen. Rabbitt, Thank you for video explanation of your design. Can you generate 360 degree files for VR?

My kitchen space is on youtube! Even crazier was that I found the old owner wandering the property a few months ago, the one that built the original kitchen. Her ex-husband was a tall chef. That's why everything was raised 4 inches including the stove. At 6'3" myself it was fine. She told me that she shot a short film in the house 15 or so years ago and never showed anyone because she was busy working on some TV show. She posted it for me to watch. Watch it if you're interested in seeing the living space. You'll recognize Taylor Negron and the other guy that stars later became most famous for singing opera from his balcony in Barcelona during the lockdowns.

See the old kitchen in action here. ----> https://vimeo.com/741527002

Opera singer ----> https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=919538251811882

I will be back after I gather my thoughts. BTW, rebunky, I'm not using a range... it will be a cooktop. Rabbitt was taking artistic license. :)

I worked darn hard to make sure I lost the entire soffit which was full of plumbing, gas lines and HVAC ducts. Look at that photo! That was like 27 inches of drywall AND stainless panels! All are tucked up or rerouted at great expense so the ceiling is 9'3" in the entire lower floor. Switching to a ductless heat pump HVAC really transformed the place, getting to remove the entire ducting soffits system. That dining area in the pic had the ceiling raised by 15" at least by removing the air distribution duct work.

The vent hood I lived in fear of hitting my forehead on the sharp corners so I put bumpers. I don't want anything in front of my head or doors that open at my face. Hence the 7' overhead cabinets. I've always thought I'd design it in a way that someone could put cabinets across the back easily if they wanted to add them later. I just don't want them now.

Putting a drywall soffit back now is not possible since drywall sanding is going on as we speak. A wooden soffit or cabinets would be the only way. I only had space for a 8" inch duct work in the ceiling for the cooktop vent. My understanding is the use of a transition piece for 10" to 8" duct is at least a foot tall so I need space for that. Using a flat vent and an exterior motor presents challenges but could possibly be done. However, I lose the cool wifi link with the Thermador cooktop and the thermador liner.... not only turning on when needed automatically but adjusting itself.

My 2Cents - you need to take whatever ideas you want and think will work for your lifestyle and personality and just do it. Trying to please everyone here and incorporate all their ideas, is going to send you into a tailspin.

Rabbit wrote - I find that working at a counter against a wall less than ideal, and if I were someone's client, I would really want them to hear me on that and think about it from my perspective for a second, and not just railroad me. I have this “ideal” prep counter at my house and I use it to host plants. I find prepping and being able to look up and see an open beautiful space very pleasurable, far more pleasurable than looking at a cabinet a few inches from my face or a stone 2' feet away… and for the 3 seconds of immeasurable discomfort in my night that it takes to move my prep, I will trade it for the half second of convenience if it means I get to feel unburdened by a closed in feeling while dicing away.

What is in bold is why we fired our first designer. They weren't interested in hearing about my claustrophobia and not being able to tolerate having my face 12" from a wall. So yea - I will be prepping on the island which looks outside and then turn around and drip stuff all over the floor as I step to the range.

You really need to think about what you need to operate comfortably in your space. To paraphrase - Perfect is the enemy of good or in kitchen design, comfortable.

@Rabbitt Design

I actually don’t have any Photoshop skills, because I have actually never used that program in my life, lol!

I have tried free versions of a couple different home designer programs, but I got overwhelmed trying to learn how to use them. My brain just does not work like it used to when I was younger and in better health. It is so frustrating. I feel like an old dog who cannot learn new tricks, but I still try. 😝

I must admit it feels very weird that there might be a Youtube video out there with you comparing my silly mockup to yours, since you are a professional designer and I have absolutely zero design education. I didn’t even go to college. Although it is super cool to see it in 3D like that!

I wouldn’t care if you did the comparison for your Youtube Channel or whatever, but since you seem to have other Houzz comparison videos posted and you mention my houzz user name Rebunky, for some reason it freaks me out. Even though I know it is anonymous and this sounds paraniod, if you could possibly edit out where you say my user name, I think I would feel much better.

I have learned many things from watching my GC husband on his construction projects over the last 30 years of marraige. I was the bookkeeper, the painter, the clean up crew, all around Gofer, etc etc… Although like I said, my brain went 🤯 a number of years ago, so now I can barely even remember how to read a tape measure. I have learned to laugh at myself, but it does get embarrassing sometimes.

I found this kitchen site (or Gardenweb before Houzz took it over) around 2015, when I started researching cabinets because for the first time I was finally getting the opportunity to design and remodel my very own kitchen. I was so excited!

But seriously, every little thing I know today about kitchen design (beside what I learned from cooking in homes with hideous kitchen layouts) has been from reading this forum. I am very grateful for the help and knowledge I have received over the years from all the generous people here. (Cpartist being one of those!)

The program I use to do my mockups is a simple $4 app called You Doodle that allows me to layer, edit, or draw on top of photos using my fingers on the iPad. I like how I can take my tablet with me and then wherever I am, if I get a few minutes, I can play on it.

It has been really good for me because it gets my mind focused off any negative thoughts I may be having. Thinking through and then mocking up layouts makes me use math skills and my hand / eye coordination. Posting comments helps me keep up on writing skills. It helps me with my patience too because I have to write super slow because I switch the orders of letters when I type and even then I usually have to reread and edit it a few times to fix all the typos.

I really do find it enjoyable helping people with the layouts because it is like a puzzle where you are trying to fit in the features they want within the limitations of the space. I can take the existing overhead drawing they post and then cut and move the appliances or cabinets around to different locations to show them other possible layouts that might function better. I can also help them visualize their kitchens with maybe a different cabinet color, new countertop, new backsplash, etc.. I have fun with it.

My GC husband has even “hired” me a few times to mockup different things to show his customers. I need to start charging for my services! 😂

Rebunky, your latest pics I thought for sure were photoshop! Quit playing your talents down. You've been great. Good job with an app! My insurance company is paying my monthly subscription fee for PS. I used to use it for when I worked on backgrounds at Nickelodeon. It's been really great having it while working on this restoration project. I wish I could do what Rabbitt does though. I'm very into VR and that is what we all need to experience the space we are trying to design. Standing in the center of our virtual room and looking around.

I think you should let him leave your anonymous name. He challenged you like he would another kitchen designer. I don't know if you noticed but he made your Doodle app 2d image into a 3d render is a tremendous display of power. Haha. Now, we're both players on Houzz AND YouTube! Come on, step into it. BTW... I thought for sure rebunky was fun older man and rabbitt was a preppy blonde woman (not sure why) BUT I'll think of you both and your aggressive kitchen help every time I look at the my finished place or watch that Youtube video. Well, not every time... but I will remember. :P

I thought for sure rebunky was fun older man

That just made me almost spit my drink! That is hilarious!

rebunky, that's what I was shooting for. ;P My dad used to say 'stink'in' that's probably where that came from. Rabbitt design's name is Rene' so I can't be blamed there either. French Canadian is my guess.

So, concerning the need for visual weight symmetry that Rabbitt was pointing out. I love rabbitts design but I'm also feeling a loss in it too. Reducing the counter and drawers to 24" 'feels' like a loss to me. Also, losing the long term storage above the counter with enough height to hide the thermador liner. I'm 6'3" so I can reach into a 7' cabinet so it wouldn't go unused.

There is the practical issue of the beefed up right side I assume will have a 30" door to match the 30" wall oven stack width. That for sure will have a big overhang into the sink when open and cover part of the window as well. I'm wondering if there is a way to use different finishes to try to achieve symmetry with visual weight not bulk. Will a lighted 24" glass tower on the right side or maybe a rift cut oak (or black/white laminate) tower contrasting to the walnut give it some weight?

The new window used to be a door and couldn't be made taller because of an overhang on the outside of the house. It is so now 36" by 42" The double doors are 8 feet so my eye really wants to continue a line above the window at 8 feet but I don't know how to accomplish that. Could adding a line above the window be somehow worked into the kitchen design?

The ceiling is 9"3" to the finished floor. Rabbitt, I agree that I'd prefer to face the living space when prepping and just leave the sink at the window.

The first two pics are kitchens that seems to work with asymmetry with varying degrees of success. Maybe I need to investigate going that way?

Paul I like your first rendering just above but would put the fridge to the left of the stove so you don't have the island as a barrier between sink and fridge. I think it's sleek and elegant while still having a good work space.

However, the issue with above is how wide are the aisles between sink and island and wall and island?

Sorry, I should have explained those photos. That's not my kitchen. Those are inspiration kitchen photos that seem to show colors and shapes used as visual weight instead of being so literal with proportions.

Sheetrock! Awfully dusty, but loving the progress.
I think you have heard every opinion possible (yeah, right).
Time for you to choose.
Good luck!

My carpenter did a closet with a mix of rift cut oak and walnut wood that I loved. I'm wondering if could mix woods to give weight to the right side of the kitchen or maybe just wrapping a 14 inch cabinet would do that.

Glass display cabinet above sink. Have all the narrow measurements be 14" including soffit if any.

I really don't like mess exposed so I'd close the open shelves on either side of the recentered cooktop.

Since the upper cabinet run above the cooktop wall butts to the tall oven cabinet, what about having another full height cabinet at the end of the peninsula to balance it out?

Sort of like this? You‘d have to play with it. I wasn’t quite sure how to draw it.

I thought you could have the book-matched seam be in the corner to continue the stone going around the window wall as well.

I just happen to pick this stone to show how if don’t get a slab that is super busy, you won’t get the Rorschach ink blot test design happening where the two slabs meet. Although I can see you having good fun analyzing all your friends with that.

Sorry I guess I erased your corner cabinet again didn’t I? 🫣

Eta: The tall cabinet on the peninsula could house the coffee maker, etc etc…

You're really doing this with an app? Its amazing Those slabs are going to cost me! It might be too overwhelming to weigh down both side of the room in such a small space. You know, I think this balance issue is a little bit of a red herring actually. I think that directing the eye with the distraction of bookmatched slabs or a slab with lots of movement and/or just some artwork on the wall will help compensate for the heaviness of the lesser seen side of the kitchen. He's checked out of the conversation so he's clearly offended by the questioning of his design. That 30 inch cabinet door on the right in that design is a deal breaker for me. I just can't go that far with design over function. How's this?

or even

Paul,

I was hoping you would decide against having the upper cabinets continuing across the window wall. Like you said, it looked way to heavy, blocks light from the window, and really closed in the kitchen. And yes… way more expensive!

You know, as pretty as the glass front cabinet in the corner is, I personally prefer the solid wood both esthetically and for practical reasons.

BTW, I really like the way you put a solid colored white countertop, with the veining being just on the backsplash piece.

I say go for it!

Thanks Rebunky. The real window is lower than in the rendering. I'd love to find a way to cleverly get some height above it. Shelf, art or maybe just some marble on that wall?

What about a sconce over the window to bring some height there? Walnut shelf with artwork propped against wall? Not the perfect shelf styling, but hopefully you get the idea.

Do you dig the bartender? You like sushi? 😆

I would skip the stone on the sink wall. Keep that wall simple with the short backsplash. I am sure it will all come together and look absolutely amazing.

I am so excited for you!

I still get no notification of replies from Houzz. Thanks, some exterior stuff has been coming together all week and it looks better than I thought it would.... I'm encouraged. That app is amazing!

Not offended at all, just letting the group sit with it and try to make other things work. I stand by that design as a non-revenue draft. Also was just putting my time elsewhere for a bit while I let this convo carry on and see what came of it.

I still think the layout I provided is a solid design. Wasn't a 30" corner it was a 26" in the corner and it wasn't just for looks, it was meant to be an appliance garage along with a 9" unit that has an alcove with lower tray storage and upper door storage

I still feel as if 34" counters with a 8" continuation into an alcove is MORE than sufficient for next to the range. I still feel very STRONGLY that the kitchen layout I provided has the most visual balance as well as function...as well as function...as well as function :)

Also there was a reason that I didn't meet two countertops at a corner cabinet the way I see it shown in some of these modded photos...very difficult to pull off in the field and to me doesn't serve form or function, so we are all at an impasse!. I will take one last go at it though, regardless of what you have in that corner, one thing should be abundantly clear...no one that I know amidst all of my design peers or clients will ever prep in a corner. Which means, if we are talking purely about function, storage is a better option than counter space. I thought it was obvious but there has been so much back and forth on it.

This is someone else's version:

Notice is is a 27" unit that meets the corner and then passed the corner has 15" of space

This is the one I proposed

Notice that the one I propose actually has more counter space before the corner on the right side for bringing prep over. 33" plus a filler plus the alcove. Mind you that my own kitchen is closer to the other design and I have no problem whatsoever cooking meals with a range so tight to a corner, and prepping at the peninsula doesn't bother me, and you would be hard-pressed to get that range wall to have a decent prep area, so I would count it out for that function entirely, which, really, shouldn't be that big of a deal.

I mentioned it earlier but that is a chase above the cabinets intended to house ducting for the hood. No need for those bulky hard to reach uppers.

Also BTW, I love to cook, and my kitchen layout isn't all that different than yours..check it out:

Meals I've Made

I'll offer this pic and check back in a bit later.

The following statement is intended to indemnify Rabbitt Design in the event that someone attempts to build the design. The design is not for distribution or use by anyone other than Rabbitt Design, and any such unauthorized use is strictly prohibited. However, Rabbitt Design encourages the client to build a similar design and will not hold the client liable for doing so without express written permission.

@Rabbitt Design Missed your response! Good to hear you're not offended. You did however rebuff my attempt at turning this into a revenue draft for you... so I assumed. I guess you're just too busy to return an email or phone call. This last render is quite a bit different then your first. You removed the 30" of wall ovens and widened the counters so it's not as tight feeling. Obviously adding a closet at the end of the line to move the frig over, right?

I agree, no one is going to use the corner for prep that's why I had no problem giving it up. The old corner was dusty and had a wired phone sitting there. You also removed the cove ceiling but it looks like you brought the ceiling down to 8 feet instead of leaving it at 9'2". Seeing as how the proportions will be different so it's hard to be sure that the mass on the left and the right won't look like the world trade center towers. Anyway, it's too late for that drywall soffit, it would look more like this:

or painted wood like this:

and that might lead someone to considering putting the uppers back, no?

What do I lose with this design change? I lose some efficiency of the ventilation. More importantly, my steam wall oven and a microwave/speed oven! I could put a 30" induction cooktop and the 30" steam oven underneath it but then I'd need a microwave drawer somewhere. To have a space for the undercounter microwave I could give up the frig drawers and put it there, then go for the 48" frig to compensate instead I guess.

Another thought is I could get a 48" stove that has a steam oven and speed oven combo... more burners than I'll ever need though. Btw, your proposed width increase puts my stools in front of the double doors.

I don't know, I got this pretty tweaked. Anything to help the balance?

What is across from the fridge? Could that be wall oven & micro or cso?

@ker9 Yes, I could put the microwave there, but if balance is that big of a problem, why don't I just reduce the wall ovens to the Miele 24" XXL steam ovens/ microwave and balance it with the right side with the 24" tower?

Rabbitt Design put a cove ceiling and a soffit here of at least 15 inches... seems like a crime to put something back I paid so much to get rid of. haha.

I reduced the ovens to 24" and the right tower to 24"

I could even put a coffee machine on the right to add some weight.

Ok, so 30" induction cooktop with 30" wall steam oven underneath... under-counter speed oven moved to pantry wall in place of frig drawers. Plumbed coffee maker installed next to sink to help deal with door overhang of sink. Upsize the 42" frig to 48" for $500 and cancel frig drawers. 15" closet to the left of the frig.

That soffit above is not easily solved. I have a 8 inch vent and need a transition piece since most range inserts are 10 inch.

The ladies at the Miele experience make a good point about compromising the position of the steam wall ovens/microwave by putting them under the counters for the sake of design. I have to consider that as well.

All of this sideways storage is incredibly inconvenient to actually use, as is the sideways orientation of the built-in coffee maker. It looks quite lovely in a rendering, but seems like a lot of contortion and climbing on counters to actually use.

As someone who has a Miele combi-steam oven, I would never put one under a counter. The steam released when you open it is unpleasant to have going up into your face, the oven needs a wipe down quite frequently, there's a part at the bottom and at the back that needs insertion/remval depending on what you're cooking, and the exposed broiler element is particularly annoying to clean around. It's much much better suited to being on top of a single wall oven or by itself at chest height.

The 24" combi-steam is the same size as the 30". The 30" just has filler panels to make it look nice stacked with a 30" wall oven. I think it's a wonderful device, and can fill in for a 2nd oven, but I wouldn't want it as my only oven. The cavity isn't very wide, the racks are not designed to bear much weight (they bow under a dutch oven), and it's not fun to clean grease splatter off of.

I would put a 30" wall oven under the induction cooktop, put the 24" steam oven (maybe the XL instead of the XXL) in place of the speed oven, and just get a normal microwave - possibly a drawer. Speed ovens are expensive compromise appliances. You have to change out interior parts to switch from microwave to oven mode, and when the magnetron or a control board goes (and they all do) - you have an expensive built-in appliance with no available parts and a custom cut-out that a current model may not fit in. Both the combi-steam and the speed oven are good 2nd ovens, but neither really replaces a normal oven. I think the combi-steam is a better 2nd oven, and the steam capabilities much more versatile from a cooking perspective than the speed oven. Also, I would highly reccomend the plumbed version. The constant filling/emptying of the water containers is...irritating.

That's the kind of feedback I was looking for, thank you. I just tossed the coffee maker in there last minute. Turns out the Miele unit swings the wrong way for maintenance anyway.

Thanks for the reminder that the 24" and the "30" combi-steam are the same size on the interior. There really is no reason for me to get the 30" version if I go that way. I do like that the 24" interior can fit a 26 lb turkey. Apparently the part you say you needed to change in the combi oven was in the last series, that requirement is no longer an issue on the 7000 series combi-steam oven.

The metal rack is what needs to be removed from the speed oven if you are using it as a microwave. They say it can be used with it in but if the coating gets scratched it could arc so best to get into the habit of removing it.

Only 2 models can be plumbed... of course not the couple I would consider.

I thought Rabbitt design's suggestion (he did the render) of the shallow shelves facing the cooktop was a good idea for spices, oils, etc. I was going to build in a hidden shallow section on the right side like that for spices anyway but this design embraces and expands that idea instead of trying to hide them.