I'm not sure if there's enough room for the barstools & walking space around the island. Were you planning on using the short side or long side of the rectangle? We are also doing a kitchen reno, and currently have a long rectangular island that's too big for our kitchen, so we're downsizing it a bit. I have blue tape on my island indicating 42" from the counter & it's enough room to pass for walking space, but I don't think that width would accommodate barstools, too. Regarding placement of the island, you may want to consider not centering it on the cooktop - that's what we wound up doing in our plans & it looks fine. What I mean by not centering it would be shifting down a bit towards the great room (better access to fridge by not walking around the end of the island as much) & giving more space in the width to the side that will have the barstools. Hope this is helpful feedback.

I know some peoople like to have the fridge close to the dinning area, but I prefer to have it closer to my (prep?)sink.

I think of where the food lives before meals and the path it must follow: fridge or pantry >then it goes from there to counter >sink >to prep space > stove or oven > to plating area >out to table (where ever that commonly is, it's not always the formal dining room!). Then plates and stuff comes >back to counter as dirty dishes > DW, or for leftovers > packing area and then back to > fridge or pantry.

I found it useful in my kitchen planning to spend a lot of time thinking through ramificationis of that pathway.

Now sometimes you can't make it perfect, but the more you can get it right, the better.

Also as far as sinks. There is the primary clean-up sink (with adj. DW if you use one) and a prep sink. Prep sinks are only useful, IMO, if they fall logically in the direct line between food storage and food prep and stove. You may find the pathway planning for yur kitch is easier to grapple with if you have an additional flow path of dish storage > plating area > table >back to counter and sink/DW/clean up area >dish storage. In that case you will probably get a lot of use out of a prep sink in the food pathway. But a single sink can do double duty, if you can intersect those two tracks in a way that allows for simultaneous, but non-conflicting usage.

I struggled becauseI started by thinking about trying to fit in elements I though I wanted, but reading the good advice here, and careful study of the kitchens that were pictured, taught me to think first in terms of pathways. Then to see if something like an island would make things easier, or break up the paths. And then you have to size it so it fits the available space and see if the remainder will do what you want,

If you are stuck with one or more fixed, unmoveable things like existing drain, outside vent, etc. those become anchors that you can pivot your plan around. Otherwise it's all on the table.

My first glance at your plan showed me your sink across the room from where the food is stored, so you'd have to cross and recross with every step.

Go you plan to eat most meals at the island or in the DR?

Got to run; I'll be interested in the relies you get. If your query slips way down, don't hesitate to "bump" it back up. And be patient, sometimes it takes a awhile to get a lot of replies.

L

Thank you Sevilla and L for your suggestions. I'll spend some time planning where I will placing my kitchen items to see how my pathways will cross.

We do plan on eating at the island a majority of the time.

Sevilla do you know what the recommended space would be behind the barstools for clearance. We do plan on putting them along the long side of island and one on the shorter side. Reason I ask is we could always make it smaller in width.

Thanks again
K

Do you enjoy formal dining? My only concern with the overall layout is that you can't see the dining table from the kitchen. That's great, if you have a breakfast nook and do a lot of formal entertaining (and don't want to see the kitchen) but if it's your only table...I don't know if you want it that separated. That little pantry hall is going to get a lot of use...and it's a long way from the kitchen sink to the table.

As for the island, I don't think you have enough room for stools, either. 42" is okay for a pathway (48" might be better) but you'll need more room for stools. There are specific aisle requirements, I believe listed in Buehl's post, we keep bumping up to page 1.

Since you have a built-in coffee maker, I'm guessing there's water there, as well. Maybe a prep sink, between the fridge and cooktop? I think I would put the fridge, where you have the coffeemaker, then counter, a prep sink, counter and the cooktop. Maybe have the ovens on the back wall with the counterspace for a landing area. Since you don't bake a lot, I'd want the fridge more in the main pathway.

If you took out the walk in pantry, you could move the oven and countertop back, making more room for stools. Maybe put your coffeemaker at the end of the counterspace, so oven, counterspace, coffeemaker (close to the family room).

Then, maybe a smaller pantry/hutch, accessed from the dining room side, with a much smaller beverage/wine center. This would give you the room you need for stools around the island. I think you could easily put three to four stools around the island, if you use the sides facing the back wall and family room.

This is probably not good news (sorry about the pantry) but I think you'll have the space you need around the island, better flow through the kitchen, and less of an isolated feel to the dining room. Just one idea and I hope it leads you to others...and eventually one you really love! :)

It looks like the hall between the kitchen and dining room will be too narrow for a coffee/beverage center. It won't be easy for someone to get buy while you make a cup of coffee.

To fit five people at the island, you will need to seat two on the end and three on the side unless you can make it a tad longer. I actually think the 2/3 seating arrangement is a lot better for family dinners and conversation. Keep in mind, as others have said, that there will me no space to get by if someone is seated at the long side of the island. And forget about getting into the fridge. In our dining room we have about 48" between the table and a piece of furniture and one can barely squeeze by when someone is seated. If you change the dimensions to 3.5' x 8.5' it would probably work better. And it doesn't have to be centered in the room so you could allow for a wider aisle on the side of the refrigerator.

Cheri makes a really good point about the beverage center. Could you put that on the back side of the oven/counter (facing the dining room) with wine glasses above and maybe some pantry space to the left? The pantry could be dressed up as a solid hutch, with beverage center/wine glass storage (behind glass doors) and then the entance to the kitchen.

Do you have wall space, elsewhere in the dining room, for a china hutch/buffet? If not, then have that on the left of the beverage center, with china storage above. Very pretty to have the china and glassware together, maybe with lighting and glass shelves?

If you moved the beverage center...more room for access through that hall area, you could make that area all pantry storage. That would help make up for the loss of the walk-in pantry...if you decide to go that route...to make a lot more space for the island and seating.

OK, so gathering the info. I have from all of you now I think I should remove the whole pantry/butler's pass thru. If I have this blank slate to work with. What do you recommend. That load bearing wall is my real pain. Have to work around it. Otherwise, water, gas etc. hasn't been run yet and can be put anywhere. The built in coffee maker would have plumbed in water. It's 25" wide.

Every time I go to redraw this I keep trying to keep everything balanced to the cooktop.....what do you think, I should just get over that idea???

Thanks again,
K