I know that people who are overweight are statistically more prone to certain health conditions. I don't need to see a person or their medical records, know their weight or any contributing factors for their weight, to say that with confidence.

Lucille, I have not been avoiding your question but didn't see it until now.

I'm not even sure why "passing weight laws" comes up. I never said anything like that. I never proposed it. I'm only suggesting that people may think they are making choices just for themselves but are ignoring the impact their health has on others, especially members of their immediate family who so often bear the burden of caring for infirmed family members.

maifleur, I was responding to this: "Do you really think that I can lose weight and still be healthy with the amount that I should eat to even maintain that weight? Should I exercise enough to lose weight and run the risk of my heart electrical impulses going wonky."

My point was that exercising isn't especially helpful in losing weight in general as people tend to get hungrier and eat even more to compensate. Moreover, the typical amount of exercising one does won't burn a lot of calories so won't lead to significant weight loss. Especially if you are being advised against putting stress on your heart, that does not sound like your best focus for weight loss. Rather diet with the proper macronutrients, lots of water, vegetables, minimizing processed foods and portion control would probably have a bigger payoff for you.

I agree FOAS. While statistics can't predict which individuals will experience what, they can indicate increased risk for many diseases that are associated with obesity.

For example:

Most recently I saw a study which found an association between consumption of added sugars and GERD. We know that being overweight increases your risk of diabetes. It's also a risk factor for structural issues such as back, knee and hip pain, and increases the risk for osteoarthritis. Over 80% of people with coronary heart disease are overweight or obese. Sleep apnea is associated with obesity. So I agree. You are safe to say that being obese puts one at greater risk of developing diseases.

I‘m curious why so many of you seem almost obsessed with other people’s weight??

I'm not "obsessed" with other people's weight with the possible exception of my wife, whose weight gain of recent years (for medical reasons she was warned to expect) is of growing concern along with my own. But I do care about people. Just like it makes me genuinely sad seeing people smoke. Or regularly drinking to excess. Or homeless. Or young people past a certain age working low skill low pay dead end jobs. (No, I don't know their situations, either.) Or people on overpowered motorcycles weaving through heavy traffic at 90mph. Would posting about increasing risks/problems associated with any of these result in the same defensive response?

If caring about others' well-being makes me a bad person, then let me be the first to admit that I'm a bad person. I'm out of this conversation.

In 2024 it's against the WOKE rules to say anything that may make another have to take stock of their situation. No one wants to consider they are not taking care of themselves. People want to eat/exercise as is comfortable for them and the result is well not for anyone else to JUDGE!! We expect applause all the time!! People do not know the meaning of that word. To judge means to see another's heart and know if evil lurks there. To estimate things like health--especially negatively bums people out so gosh don't do that!! HAHAHA Sorry folks but honest or not so fair evaluation by others happens ALL THE TIME. Ya need to get over it.

Who is obsessed with other peoples' weight? We are discussing a national (and global) health issue. Raising awareness of that issue which FOAS has done in the OP, sharing our personal experiences and providing information to people who are asking questions is hardly obsessing about other peoples' weight.

TV, The fat acceptance movement is NOT some sort of anti bullying campaign as you have portrayed it. In fact, members of that movement often bully other people. For example, when celebrities like Adele and Rebel Wilson lost their excess weight, they were all up in arms about how "toxic" they were for losing weight on purpose. They say that other people posting their own before and after weight loss pictures is problematic and say that an individual losing weight on purpose is the same as launching a bigoted attack on fat people. One of its main leaders, Sonalee Rashatwar, touts that trying to get an obese child to lose weight through changing their diet is the same thing as sexual abuse. It is not about loving yourself and respecting others. It is about spreading dangerous mistruths about health and attacking people who think otherwise in order to try to force people to be attracted to them, and to think that obesity is healthy so that THEY are comfortable. THAT is why THAT movement is a problem.

And look, there is no such thing as health at every size. There is not. Period. You just are not gonna meet a 600 pound 70 year old okay. Just because it hasn't taken it toll YET, does not mean a person is healthy. Being obese constantly erodes away at the body. And yes, thinner people can be unhealthy. NO ONE says that JUST because someone is a normal weight than they are healthy. That is foolish. But imagine the problems your boss would have if she was 100 pounds heavier than she is now. Do you think she would be better or worse off and why? As for quality over quantity, do you think that if the lifestyle change you say would harm your mental health were not necessary and that you could be magically 80 pounds lighter and maintain it without those changes and carry on the same habits, it would improve the quality of your life?

There is no "High Cholesterol Acceptance " Movement because (like obesity) it is well established that high cholesterol is unhealthy and leads to problems. And as cholesterol does not have anything to do with ones appearance (unlike obesity), people are not so emotional and defensive about it. I guarantee that if someone told me their cholesterol was 400, and I told them they should lower it, they likely would not cry bullying. Obesity is a condition you can see, unlike high blood pressure or cholesterol. And not every comment about it is an insult.

Just as being anorexic or bulimic and being extremely underweight are problematic, so is being obese. Why is it ok to say something about one and not the other? There is no nationwide movement trying to force people to think it is normal to behave in such a way to end up emaciated. Why is there such a push to force people to believe the opposite? Its not true.

By all means, live how you want. No one deserves to be bullied or harrassed for their body or anything else for that matter. But realize this: Saying that the obese body is not a healthy one is NOT bullying or harassment. It is scientifically backed and proven.

I am not overly concerned with the health of individual people I do not know or care about, so I will not claim to be. I do not see an obese person and automatically think "they need to lose weight." Stay big, I do not care. But I do, in general, want everyone to have an easy, happy and healthy life. And according to decades of evidence, the obesity epidemic and the health problems it is causing is going to make it harder to achieve that. And give us less time to do that. The average life expectancy in the western world is dropping, and its not because of hurt feelings.

"To judge means to see another's heart and know if evil lurks there."

That certainly isn't my definition of "to judge" but it does provide some insight....

>> It seems to me that the onus should be on the companies making, advertising and selling unhealthy, high calorie, low nutrition foods. There's an overabundance of cheap high calorie food here in the USA.

Really? I don't agree with this at all. People should be responsible for their own actions and the onus should be on themselves.

In 2024 it's against the WOKE rules to say anything that may make another have to take stock of their situation

Say what? I know I slept in this morning but I didn't think I slept through an entire year! At least I'm one year closer to retirement than I was yesterday.

I wish someone made a low carb beer that actually tasted like beer but until then I'll have to stick with light beer.

Looking at the comments the post is about looking good for others rather than people's health. People can be healthy and not look the way people think they should look or we would all be clones of each other.

I'm curious where you get that impression maifleur as I see a lot more posts here about health than looks...

(LoneJack, my DH says Athletic Brewing is pretty good for a non-alcoholic beer. I'm not sure if they are really low carb, or just lower than regular craft brews. We get them at Walmart. But TBH if I'm drinking healthy, I'd prefer water to anything low cal, low carb, low etc.)

Do any of ya'll remember the comic strip "Freddy"? Some papers still ran it in the 1960's. My mom said she appreciated Freddy because the kids were normal/fat, rather than super skinny. This was in Twiggy's era, so maybe Mom was reflecting a backlash. Personally I liked Freddy because it was funny (a precursor to Calvin and Hobbes). But just now I googled and ironically the first two strips that came up involved weight/over eating:

" And look, there is no such thing as health at every size. "

Health? Yes there is. Perfectly healthy? No there isn't -- and I wager that >90% of normal weight people aren't perfectly healthy either. Less so for very thin, even highly athletic, bodies. Do you want to talk fat, or do you want to health, because they're 2 different subjects. Related, yes, but you're not talking about health when you talk about fat, and you're not talking about fat when you talk about health. Pick the one that concerns you and talk about it -- don't mix the two up.

It is possible to be equally healthy in a fat and slim body. That's the important message, and one that Fat Acceptance is saying (well, that and 'stick your opinion about my body where the sun don't shine').

Fashion models are not healthy (have you seen what they eat?). Many athletes and dancers aren't healthy either (trying to fit into a weight or size class; abusing their bodies in pursuit of often unrealistic dreams). I could go on, but I won't because I know you don't really care.

Maybe you and I have a different opinion on what physical health means........and we haven't even talked about mental health.

You just go ahead focusing your negative judgment on fat people, ignoring all the other unhealthy people around you, while admiring athletes, dancers, and models who often abuse their bodies for a job.

" The average life expectancy in the western world is dropping, and its not because of hurt feelings. "

The average life expectancy almost all over the world (except Oceania) has dropped in the last 4 years, naturally, but until then it was all rising slowly but steadily: https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy. While between 2001-2021, the US life expectancy hasn't changed, it's actually increased in Canada and Europe. I suspect some of the reason that the US life expectancy isn't continuing to rise (and may be falling in the last year or two?) is that it's got a complicated and very expensive health care system, unlike most of the rest of the world, and double the maternal mortality rate than its peer countries https://ourworldindata.org/maternal-mortality. Definitely not about hurt feelings.

"Fashion models are not healthy (have you seen what they eat?)."

Well THAT brought me back into the conversation quickly! Do you see what you just did? You made assumptions about people's health based on their appearance and broad brush speculation about what they eat. How ironic.

Your screen name implies you practice medicine. Do you believe in preventative healthcare at all? Statistics? If someone brings in a 150 pound lab and the bloodwork comes back fine, do you leave it at that without comment?

I'll let Amylou deal with defending her words, but while unhealthy behaviors and lifestyle do not necessarily make you instantly unhealthy, they certainly increase your risk for becoming unhealthy. I mean, read a report such this and tell me it's not of consequence:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5599277/

And how often is obesity listed as a comorbidity? Speaking of falling life expectancy in the last couple years: Covid. If you'd like to read how the CDC believes obesity affects the outcomes of that disease:

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

As far as I can tell, the ONLY reason there's so much defensive backlash when discussing weight and health is because there's a visible indicator. While the science of exactly what's healthy to eat and what's not changes here and there with each new study, in my lifetime I don't recall any coming back with a conclusion that it's not harmful to be overweight after all.

"It is possible to be equally healthy in a fat and slim body."

Yes, it is 'possible'. It is also possible to cross a busy highway blindfolded and not get injured, but it's risky. The scientific evidence of the impact of obesity on the body is very strong. I posted some of the risks above. Does this mean any one individual will experience any of those? No. We probably all know someone who lived a long, cancer-free life despite a lifetime smoking habit (such as my MIL who died at 93). Does this mean smoking is a healthy choice and won't increase your risk of disease? Of course not.

There is no doubt that there are many ways to live an unhealthy lifestyle. My SIL was always severely underweight and lived largely on coffee and cigarettes. Not what I'd consider to be a healthy lifestyle either. And it caught up with her at an early age. She died of lung cancer at 39.

Each individual has specific health (mental and physical) issues that they have to deal with and they have to make choices about. The more informed, the more likely to make better choices. If one assesses those risks and makes the best choice for them, more power to them. But misjudging or denying those risks won't get them there.

Even at that, even when we know the risks and the best choices, we will often decide otherwise...humans are complicated, irrational and make mistakes.

When it comes to looks and weight which some are bringing up here, I think it is evolutionarily ingrained in us to instantly assess someone's health upon seeing them...just as we instantly assess someone's gender or race or age. In seeking the most likely hope for passing on our genes, humans and other animals are hard wired to look for signs of health or ill-health in those we meet. (It also has to do with are you a danger to me kind of stuff.) Some have posited that there are cross-cultural similarities to what is considered beautiful and much of it has to do with things like symmetry in the body and other signs of genetic and reproductive health and fitness which seem to be universally desirable.

" How ironic. "

Not irony, a mirrored example. Apparently I wasn't obvious enough in pointing out your hypocrisy.

" There is no doubt that there are many ways to live an unhealthy lifestyle. "

That's all I'm trying to say.......that this isn't about how being fat isn't a healthy way to live (it's not), it's about judging ONLY fat people for not living the best and most healthful life possible, and for living risky lives with their health. Most people live lives that are a risk to their health in one way or another (it might be depriving themselves of nutrients with an unbalanced and insufficient diet, not keeping their cholesterol under control, drinking too much, too much sun exposure, not getting enough sleep, not wearing seatbelts........), but it seems only one risk is deemed acceptable to lecture other people about, because they choose to admit their not ashamed of the risk they've accepted as being better than the "reward" of removing that risk - sustained and healthy weight loss is exceedingly rare, and the costs in mental and physical health of those attempts are real.....most fat people have been there and done that multiple times in their lives.,

hard wired

So you are saying you think people are hard wired to pick other people as friends/mates based on physical traits/beauty, instead of intelligence, wealth, success, personality?

"So you are saying you think people are hard wired to pick other people as friends/mates based on physical traits/beauty, instead of intelligence, wealth, success, personality?"

You asking about men or women? 😂

"Ingrained in us to instantly assess someone's health upon seeing them"

You are assessing looks not health. You can't determine a person's health just by looking at them

TV I'm glad the irony was intended; maybe I should have picked up on that.

"but it seems only one risk is deemed acceptable to lecture other people about..."

Are you being ironic here, too? As a former smoker, I can assure you that I was lectured about that a lot, in fact far more "in your face" confrontation, from people both close to me and not, than I've EVER experienced regarding my weight. And as a former very heavy drinker, I'd say the same. PSAs about addictions, psychological issues, risky behaviors, etc. abound, as does public discussion about them. So I'm curious what high risk health behaviors you're thinking are not acceptable to talk about? Especially ones that carry such high risk. Bonus for widespread.

I just want to add that I'm well aware of how incredibly difficult it is to lose weight, and what a small percentage of people are able to maintain their weight loss even if they do initially succeed. 1% or something? Thus far I'm among the 99%, so I know. To me that's all the more reason to drill in healthy eating and lifestyles from a very early age, and to NOT normalize being overweight.

One good thing about at least trying to lose weight is that it's often accompanied with educating oneself on what food are particularly healthy and unhealthy. Even if you stay overweight, you might for example shift some of your caloric intake from high fat processed meats to lean proteins. That can't hurt, either.

Heritagehd07 "You are assessing looks not health. You can't determine a person's health just by looking at them"

Your brain instantly assesses visible signs of good health. Of course it can't see blocked arteries or cancer. But it can see bloodshot eyes, jaundiced skin, decayed or missing teeth, coughing, rasping, poor posture, rashes on exposed skin, weight, hair quality, ...

I am also one of those 99%. In 2009 i was 56, was renewing my life insurance and had to have a check up from the insurance company's health officer because of my age. Part of it was having blood pressure checked and being weighed. I am a decades long trail runner and at the time I ran trails 4-5 times a week, went to a strength gym with a trainer 3 days a week, walked my nieces dog 3 days a week and hiked twice a week and still do most of that.

It turned out my blood pressure was high which shocked me, after all with all that exercise how could that be? She checked again and sure enough. I hadn't weighed myself in years, after all, with all that exercise why should I? Anyway, I looked at my registered weight and I WEIGHED AS MUCH AS A MAN! I was shocked and embarrassed.

There is no way that I could add more exercise so I had to tackle the eating/food issue. The very next day I started googling about food and healthy eating for life and learned that 1 pound is 3500 calories so if I wanted to lose this weight (I set a goal of 45 lbs) permanently it had to be slow and steady. I set a goal of about a pound a week which meant finding 500 calories a day that I didn't need. That turned out easier than I thought when I analyzed what and why I was eating those extras.

Nine months later I met my goal and the weight is still off. At 70 I'm still running those trails, hiking, strength training and now walking my sons Golden Retriever 3 times a week.

I just want to say that my opinion is that for those who are overweight/obese that you may be happy with what you look like but in my experience, on the inside, your joints, heart, etc are not happy.

For me losing this weight was a personal journey. I didn't tell or share it with anyone. The met goals were mine, the setbacks were mine. I was only responsible to me and for me. I still weigh myself everyday and watch what I eat and plan sensible meals.

This is just my opinion - but for those who don't exercise at all, even walking, I would suggest changing eating habits first and then taking on a workout program whatever that may entail. It's easier to tackle one issue at a time and once some weight is lost getting out there for a walk is easier to do.

lucille "So you are saying you think people are hard wired to pick other people as friends/mates based on physical traits/beauty, instead of intelligence, wealth, success, personality?"

I'm saying that the brain takes in much more information than we know and makes instantaneous judgments for us of which we are not consciously aware and that includes things like physical traits...some studies even suggest odors impact our choices in friends and mates. I'm not saying those other traits are irrelevant in terms of developing a relationship. I'm saying that learning about those traits is not automatic and instantaneous vs. a first impression which some suggest the brain makes in 1/10th of a second. So like it or not, people assess others (why clothing matters too) and they can't help but do it as they are hard wired to. But people are not bound by that judgment. What matters is what we do with it. Do we dismiss people of say a certain age or weight? Or do we stay open to that person and learn more about them? I have seen, for example, overweight yoga teachers perform with far more flexibility, grace and strength than I could ever achieve, though first glance at them would suggest otherwise and stereotypes might expect them all to be slender and lithe.

See for example: The Hidden Brain by Shankar Vedantam and Blink by Malcolm Gladwell. Also: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-may-pick-friends-who-smell-like-them/

Interesting. But I think if physical appearance was 'hard wired' people would choose fat people first as they obviously have access to food, which is certainly important for survival.

@blfenton - Actually with having kept the weight off for over a decade, you're in the 1% not the 99%. Congratulations, I hope to join you someday!

lucille, that's been true in some cultures. But sapeins also needed mates who were strong and agile enough to hunt or fight off competitors and so on. But then again, way back, finding someone who was overweight was probably a challenge given the amount of physical labor required to survive and food insecurity.

Congrats blfenton! That's quite an achievement.

The rule of thumb is if you reduce calorie intake by 100 calories per day, at the end of a year you will weigh 10 lbs less.

foodonastump - You're right! I was only 1/2 through my first cup of coffee. :)

Annie - I see your point but my comment was specifically about assessing health relative to weight. The other conditions certainly convey a sense of neglect or poor health.

Where are the people hoping to be overweight? Where are the people hoping to appear overweight? Right, I haven't met any either.

DH and I achieved middle-aged spread, but decided to lose -- and did so over about one year. Weight was never a big problem for either of us, but today lack of exercize IS one.

Whatever the difficulty, owning it is Step One. Denial is the enemy of change.

(Now I have to get up and MOVE.)

" Whatever the difficulty, owning it is Step One. Denial is the enemy of change. "

Not too many people are denying their fat, or are denying the difficulty of losing the weight.

Good discussion. I got lazy during the shutdown and gained ten pounds. I also let my scoliosis get worse, so I lost almost 5 inches, which places me in a different place on the BMI scale. (I used to be long waisted - now my ribs rest on my hips.) In 2022, I cut out sugar - ate only two desserts the whole year. Also cut out all processed food. We are retired, and my husband does the cooking, so that was admittedly easier than for most people. So far, I've only lost five pounds, so I need to exercise more. We did spend the year walking, but now I am adding Pilates. I recently read that there may be a connection between Alzheimers and sugar/processed foods. My father lived to be 95, but had Alzheimers for the last three years. I am 75 and hope to live as long as he did, but without the Alzheimers.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › 34328409

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/could-fructose-contribute-to-the-development-of-alzheimers

Sue - not sure if this was directed at me or not. I'm about 6# overweight. I walk 25 miles per week and bike 20 miles per week in rain snow sleet and sun. 😀 I'm trying to move!

heritage -- My comment was 'in general'. I can only wish to be as active as you! Although I have been 20 lbs. overweight in my 50's, at 81 I struggle to keep 100 lbs on my shrinking frame, and it's certainly not strong bones or muscle. Six pounds? How can you even *notice* that? Congratulations on taking good care of yourself.

"Where are the people hoping to be overweight? Where are the people hoping to appear overweight? "

....reminds me of how they are trying to make all these meat-like products out of vegetables, but they never try to make vegetable-like products out of meat...

TV, your rant at me shows that perhaps you were too angry to actually read the post you responded to, as I explicitly said that normal and underweight people can be unhealthy. I am unsure as to why you skipped that. You also failed to answer the direct questions I asked you. But no matter. It seems you have taken this post personally as an attack on you and your appearance. I am sorry that happened.

You just go ahead focusing your negative judgment on fat people, ignoring all the other unhealthy people around you, while admiring athletes, dancers, and models who often abuse their bodies for a job.

Um, I am overweight. Or FAT, as you say. I do not judge myself negatively. Being fat is not a character flaw. I face facts about the problems I will face in the future, and decide whether to try to avoid them or embrace them. Accepting scientific truths is part of that. You do not have to do that. You do not owe anyone your own health after all. My doctor told me to lose weight. he wasn't judging me negatively. And he wasn't commenting on my appearance. He was using his training and experience to help me achieve a healthier life. I imagine he might be less inclined to do so if I told him to "stick what he thought about my body" "You need to lose/gain weight to be healthy" is not the same as "You need to lose/gain weight to be hot"

And I do not admire anyone you listed really. I admire people who have had and maintained a lifetime of BALANCE. People who haven't been either extreme ever, and are healthy and happy. I do not meet too many people like that. But when I do, I admire them. My mother is like that. I also admire people who can do yoga without catching a cramp in every muscle as I do. Oh, and as far as ignoring all other unhealthy people around me, ask my SO how many times today I have nagged him to quit smoking and eat more. He is very underweight and I fear unhealthy. He wont go to a doctor for a check up. I nag about that too. Not because his lanky appearance may be unappealing to someone, but because I love him, want him around forever and since that is impossible, as long as possible and want him to feel good.

His grandmother was a lifetime smoker and lived to be 97. Should I give a rip about that given the undeniable evidence of the dangers of smoking?!?!? Because I do not. The facts of obesity are no different.

I hope you maintain your good health for the rest of a long life, and I hope you have no physical hardships or suffering, truly. But you shouldn't be so angry at others for speaking generally about accepted and proven facts and statistics when referring to society as a whole.

" they never try to make vegetable-like products out of meat... "

Ooooh, that would be a cool idea. Instead of the "everything is cake", it could be "everything is meat"

I think more people today are shortening their lives with anxiety than any other health issue. How many readily gave up 2 plus years of living staying home due to fear of a virus? How many give up the joy of dining on favorite things to stick to rigid unrealistic diets in the name of health? How many spend more time working out to stay fit instead of enjoying each day for what it brings even if it means staying home for a day and never getting out of your sleepwear? All the anxiety over food labels, processed food, OMG it's got chemicals. LOL All the piousness over I never do that, I never eat that etc. What is it really based on? Fear of dying . Fear of Illness. Fear of injury if you take up certain activities. But what is the purpose of a life that is based on existing over one that is based on living it to the fullest. I'll take a shorter full life over a longer anxiety ridden emptier one. But that's just me.

"Not too many people are denying their fat, or are denying the difficulty of losing the weight."

No, but are people properly assessing the risks of the excess weight they carry? The purpose of the OP was to point out that, despite all the evidence of the risks obesity brings to the body, even that may be understated due to affects of illness on the body near end of life causing weight loss...paradoxically those very illnesses that people are at higher risk for because of excess weight.

FTA: "While previous research estimated 2 to 3% of U.S. adult deaths were due to high BMI, his study pegs the toll at eight times that."

That is a significant difference. Moreover, the research suggests that the current thinking... that mortality to weight relationship was U-shaped with the biggest risks being for the severely under or overweight...is wrong. Instead, it is a direct relationship with the higher the weight, the greater the risk.

No pun intended...but this research is certainly food for thought. Okay, I lied. Pun intended.

" No, but are people properly assessing the risks of the excess weight they carry? "

Maybe, maybe not......but while you assume "no", I assume "yes". Maybe that's because I'm obese and I've assessed the risks and rewards of accepting my fat body, after decades and decades of fighting it - decades that resulted in more weight, an altered physiology, and worse mental health.

Unlike quitting smoking (where even a few days or weeks without cigarettes is a benefit to your body, even if you return to smoking), frequent weight loss and gain in overweight and obese people actually can damage a person's physiology - and over 80% of fat people who lose weight do not maintain it. I'm not saying that trying and failing to maintain weight loss is worse than staying fat, but it's not benign either, and that has to go into the mix to assess one's health risks and benefits.

And, seriously, why is no one discussing the mental health issues of living in a constant state of negative self-image, and always feeling the need to work harder to change oneself?

Maybe, maybe not......but while you assume "no", I assume "yes".

What this study is suggesting is, whatever your risk/benefit assessment was, it may need revisiting because these conclusions, if correct, are saying the risks of overweight/obesity are greater than previously thought.

I found this most interesting:

"why is no one discussing the mental health issues of living in a constant state of negative self-image, and always feeling the need to work harder to change oneself?"

I have been dealing with my weight since puberty. I have been a lifer with WW since 1989. However, I don't live in a constant state of negative self-image. In fact, studies have shown that a positive attitude can help one lose weight. Negative feelings can lead to cycles of: I feel bad, I eat to swallow my feelings, I overeat, I feel worse, I eat more, etc. Rather it's the positive, can do attitude that will be beneficial. It's knowing you deserve to succeed that makes all the difference, no matter the endeavor. It's also about setting realistic goals, incremental goals, and enjoying each victory, on the scale and off, along the way, and forgiving those very human missteps that will happen. WW has come a long way over the years, and they work a lot on psychology...after all, the hand doesn't lift the food to the mouth without the brain telling it to. And the workshops are incredibly helpful as you are with people who understand where you're coming from as they have been there too. They help you celebrate your victories, support you in your stumbles and encourage you when it's rough going, all in a nonjudgmental way.

As far as working harder to change oneself...that for me is a lifetime quest. It's not about food and body, though health is preferred to ill-health. It's about building character, dealing with negative emotions, eliminating suffering -- my own and others -- and learning every day how to do better than I did yesterday. It's about a daily practice of gratitude and creativity, treating others with respect as I would wish to be treated, and treating myself with respect too. If that includes making changes that make me healthier, more's the better. Life is a daily practice.

I remember a story about a famous buddhist monk who came to America to deliver the message to be more kind. He was stunned when, unlike other cultures where people respond to the encouragement and are uplifted by it, Americans instead responded with beating themselves up for not being kinder in the first place. Go figure.

If it were simply a matter of knowledge and willpower (or as some seem to believe, character), don't you think maintaining a healthy weight would not such a big issue for so many people?

You can live without cigarettes and alcohol, but you can't live without food.

I stand by my comments above, about manufacturers bearing a large part of the responsibility for the rise in obesity rates.

This article at Wired magazine is very interesting - about ultra processed foods and their role in weight gain. There's a reason it's so dang easy to eat an entire bag of chips without thinking...

https://www.wired.com/story/ultra-processed-foods/

BTW, do the people who are strict about their food intake exercise the same amount of control with alcohol? Yesterday on NPR.org, I listened to part of a discussion about alcohol and its relationship to conditions like breast and prostate cancer, heart disease. Research is now showing that no amount of alcohol is good for anyone's health, and even 2 drinks weekly is enough to adversely affect the body.

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2023/02/27/alcohol-guidelines-health-risks

Yes. There is a lot of sugar and calories in white wine.

I didn't lose weight for self-image issues but rather for health issues. I still don't have a chest and I'm still not particularly attractive but I am healthy.

I do have to watch my alcohol intake...but especially because once I have my glass of wine, my discipline drops and out come the cheese and crackers/chips and all h*ll breaks loose. That's much less likely to happen with my mocktail...my latest being raspberry/lime seltzer with a splash of cranberry juice and a squeeze of lime.