Please Critique This Floorplan

last year

I posted another floor plan a while back, Banning Court. Since then I’ve read a lot and continued looking at floor plans. Whatever home I build will be my retirement house. I’ll be an empty nester. No grand kids as of yet. I do expect to have a dog or 2. My plan is to build in southern MS , near New Orleans. I do not have the land yet but I do not plan on purchasing in an HOA area. I first saw this plan on houseplans.com and then found the designer Period House Styles. I like the Italianate details, specifically the eaves brackets. They remind me of the row house I grew up in in Philly. But I plan to keep the exterior more in keeping with a southern wood clad home with a big veranda and shutters This specific style feels more familiar to me than the other southern vernacular styles I was looking at, even though I did like them.

My thoughts are that I would use the dining room as a parlor/living room. I like the idea of keeping the heart of the house for more familiar people. I would be using the master bedroom as my away space. I like to lounge, read, watch a lot of tv but don’t want to be in my bedroom all the time and also don’t want to be napping on the great room sofa all the time either.

I can take one of the upstairs bedrooms and if the stairs ever become too much, I can relocate to the 1st floor. But I want to uses stairs for as long as I can to maintain that ability. So that master bath on the 1st floor will have a zero entry shower with a shower bench and the upstairs bathroom will have a stand alone tub. I’d make that second powder room off of the nook into a small mud room. And those are really the only changes that jump out at me.

The plan seems like it has a good flow to me. The stairs don’t face the foyer and the powder room isn’t “in” a living space. I don’t have to go through a living space to get to the master bedroom from the front door. The kitchen work zone isn’t a more convenient path.

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Mrs Pete

last year

last modified: last year

Whatever home I build will be my retirement house. I’ll be an empty nester. No grand kids as of yet. I do expect to have a dog or 2.

So is it just you in this house?

If dogs are important to you, I'd aim for a space for them ... since you say you'd do away with that half-bath near the breakfast table, that could be an ideal spot for crates and their gear. Maybe something that could be closed off with a pocket door ... or a crate type door so the dogs could be left in that room instead of a crate? Add a doggie door to the back yard, and you'd have an ideal spot to leave the dogs when you go out. I'm liking this idea.

My plan is to build in southern MS , near New Orleans. I do not have the land yet but I do not plan on purchasing in an HOA area.

You have an idea of what you want to build, and that's great ... you really should be shopping for land now. Focus on details after you have your property.

I like the Italianate details, specifically the eaves brackets.

Are you ready to pay big for these details?

with a big veranda

Stop and think about how you'll use the veranda(s). They are expensive to build ... think 60% the cost of interior spaces:

- This plan has a lot of porch built around the front of the house ... of course every house needs at least a bit of shelter for people approaching your front door, but how do you see yourself using that large U-shaped front porch area?

- This plan has a large veranda facing the back yard ... how do you see yourself using this more private space? Grilling? Playing with the dogs? Reading?

- One thing I dislike is a bay window under a veranda. It's weird and cheats you of the lovely light you could have at the table ... but it's adjustable while it's still on paper.

- The kitchen will be dark. Nice, lovely beams of light that we all love will not penetrate beyond the veranda and the seating area.

My thoughts are that I would use the dining room as a parlor/living room. I like the idea of keeping the heart of the house for more familiar people.

So you want something of an old-fashioned feel ... a formal parlor for "everyone" and the larger, more casual area for family to relax.

Again, let's think through this: how often do "formal guests" come into your home? Will you have such guests often enough to justify building and maintaining this space?

I would be using the master bedroom as my away space. I like to lounge, read, watch a lot of tv but don’t want to be in my bedroom all the time and also don’t want to be napping on the great room sofa all the time either.

- Your master bedroom plans seem more firm, better thought out than your thoughts for the other spaces. It's a large master with a lot of closet space ... do you need that much space? I like that the master has an outside door ... that'll be convenient for bringing in large furniture, for letting the dogs in/out at night, and for fire safety.

- Since this will be your retirement home, I wish the washer/dryer were closer. I'd consider bringing the laundry over to what is now a half-bath ... you could lose some bathroom space and still have plenty.

I can take one of the upstairs bedrooms and if the stairs ever become too much, I can relocate to the 1st floor.

Why would you not take the larger, nicer bedroom downstairs now? You can always use the stairs several times a day as exercise.

I suppose my post is not so much about this plan as it is gaining knowledge about things to look for when determining if a plan, custom or stick, is a good one.

Okay ... comments on this house plan:

- This house has a complicated footprint ... lots of jigs and jogs, which will drive up the cost without adding anything to the comfort or function of the house.

- This complex footprint will also force the roofline into something more complex, which will cost more and be more likely to leak.

- The front door /foyer are oddly placed. Think through this: your garage is on the right, so that's where your driveway will be /your guests will park on the right. But the front door is on the left, so people will have to leave their cars and walk literally around the house, turning two corners before they get a glimpse of the front door. This will be confusing for guests. This is fixable ... with a second driveway /parking area /clear indications for your guests as to where they should park.

- The L + island kitchen is a comfortable size and looks highly functional. I personally wish it had a larger pantry, as that's "one of my things", and I wish it had natural light.

- How do you anticipate laying out furniture in the family room? I find it difficult to lay out furniture when walking aisles must be preserved around the edges.

- Since you'd be "floating" furniture in this space, you definitely need to anticipate placement and have a couple floor outlets built in. This cannot be done later, and it will make a difference in your ability to place lamps, etc.

- The back veranda will prevent your casual family room from receiving lovely natural light, which can make such a difference in a room. No, it won't be cave-dark, but it also won't be as pleasant as a room with windows directly to the outside.

- I see the back veranda has a grilling area ... but it's on the far side from the kitchen. I'd change this.

- You have a large, expensive switchback star ... and it's nicely placed to be a focal point in the main living area. Good. But it looks like the space underneath is just closed off ... I'd want those closets to be made deep /open in the back. Even if the space is half-height, it's excellent storage space ... maybe for Christmas decorations or other seldom-used items.

- Alternately, you could check out Pinterest for very cool dog spaces in these under-stair areas. But what I would not do is let that space go to waste.

- The two upstairs bedrooms are large enough for comfort ... but since they will be guest bedrooms, do you want to build walk-in closets? On the same topic, I'd definitely downsize to a single sink /a good-sized stack of drawers on each side for the guest bathroom.

- Overall, the house is over-bathed for a single person. Four bathrooms? Two half-baths? Too much to build, too much to maintain and keep clean.

The laundry is where your “drop zone” should be, for your keys, umbrella, shoes, etc.

- Agree. I'd like to see a cabinet with drop space and coat hooks where the cabinet is now ... and a built-in bench with a larger window over it where the washer/dryer is ... this would give you space to leave shoes under the bench. I'd also sub in a pocket door; this door will almost always be left open.

- You said you might use the space that's now the back half-bath as an entrance. I think the current laundry area would be a much better choice ... it's larger and better suited as an entry. Plus, if you're going to have your eating area in this bay window, you can't afford this space to be a major thoroughfare; it would cut down on the size table you could have.

In fact, you’d probably be going through the kitchen anyway

Is that a small pantry between this laundry area and the kitchen? If so, it's nicely located ... though I'd flip the door the other direction. Consider where you'd set down your bags before putting away groceries.

The house seems to show a basement, but I’m thinking that houses in your area don’t have basements. So, is there enough storage for you?

Yeah, but house plans usually give you the option of several foundations.

If you do build a second floor, put in an elevator.

Or go with a one-story house ... with adult children and no grandchildren yet, I don't see that you need two guest rooms.

And yes, if you're near the coast, you will need to be above base flood elevation, so how will you plan for that as you age?

Yes, this is important.

My drop zone is a dresser by the front door. I keep my hats, gloves, scarves, and umbrellas in the drawers. And have trays on top for keys and mail.

Practical.

I actually don’t like the idea that I would seldom be using my front door because I’d be entering from the garage.

So flip-flop the foyer over to the other side, creating one entry for yourself AND guests. It'll also solve the odd front-door placement, which I discussed above.

I would only have one car so could use the garage for overflow storage.

Don't. Does anyone actually ever use anything stored in a garage? Moving is a great oportunity for downsizing a bunch of junk you really don't need.

explain how I want my house to function, what pleases me aesthetically, and how I want my house to make me feel

So now you're solidifying these thoughts.

The OP said she would turn that bathroom into a back door entry.

The plan already has a back yard entry through the family room ... I don't see a need for another one only a few feet away in the same public space. One or the other ... doors are less energy efficient than windows, and every door is one more door to be secured.

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Comments (21)

PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
last year
Obtain the site, then design the house to fit the site and meet your needs.
Cheree Kennedy (7a SE PA)
Original Author
last year
Yes, I do understand that is the ideal way to do it. Like I imagine this plan would do best on a level site where the views are to the south since that’s where the majority of the windows are and takes advantage of southern exposure. And the garage should be on the west side of the house to protect from the western sun. Outside of sun exposure and views and slope, what other site considerations would I keep in mind? I guess setbacks too would determine the design. How would I know if a plan that I had designed specifically for my site, was actually planned with the site in mind outside of the items i mentioned and not just a flipped stock plan. I suppose my post is not so much about this plan as it is gaining knowledge about things to look for when determining if a plan, custom or stick, is a good one. I have also been reading past posts where plans have been critiqued and am curious to see if I’ve picked anything up.
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Floorplanner is nice and all, and I use it too, but it really is difficult to do anything with on this forum... Also, you can email yourself the image from your floorplanner dashboard. Then, you can actually post the image. But, you need to post it with some dimensions, and not just the dimension key/bar at the bottom. For example, right now, it looks like your master bathroom is a smidge skinny in some ways... you need 2ft minimum infront of your toilet. And, it looks like you have a pretty small shower stall (only). That is fine to have a shower only, but this is a particularly small one. Also, since I can't tell the dimensions very well, your closet is not likely to be able to hold as much as you think (you won't get 3 racks of clothes all the way around. It looks like it is probably 7 ft wide? You will get 2 racks, one on each side, and then you will need drawers or similar along the back wall...the corners will be useless otherwise.) Other comments... I am concerned that your choices of an angling stair from up to down, going under the hall bath tub may not work. That will depend on your ceiling height in the basement.
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So this is a rough draft - which obviously needs help. That's why I'm here :-) Virgil - the 'forced symmetry' is a request of my husband. Although he is willing to budge somewhat, he hates strange roof lines. We're actually trying to save money with going with dimension divisible by 2's and mainly 4's and few corners. Would a walk-in closet need to be wider if clothes are only hung on one side? We are considering two different roof lines. In both cases the center section of the house will have taller interior walls. Palimpest: There is a fantastic view to the south, just trees to the north and west and a hill to the east. So locating the kitchen on the north and placing pantries, etc in the middle cut off view from kitchen. In our last home, designer talked me into typical rectangle great room: kitchen, dining, living - all along view side and I hated it. Company all swirled around the island while I was trying to cook. I don't mind being in my kitchen and looking through another room for a view. (see revision for windows on N) Cpartlist: Not totally committed to shape - just trying to save $ and hubby likes symmetry. Less corners, less $$. ? The dogs get that much room because we will be training diabetic alert dogs. We'll be in that room a lot, and when we are not, the dogs need to feel part of the family but I don't necessarily want them in the living room all the time. My software doesn't have pocket doors, but we'd probably use them on the living room wall, also gates. The dogs also need the west access to enter a dog run which will provide afternoon shade. For resale, the room can be converted into an additional bedroom and a den off the living room. The mechanical room was designed at 3.5' because it will contain hydronics on the wall, on demand hot water on the wall and a safe facing the bedroom (I forgot to put a door to the hall). See revisions, I added the W/D to the room, I think hydronic valves and on-demand should fit above w/d. I increased the pantry to 5.5' (freezers open to 5') and the kitchen aisle to 4.5'. Also, reconfigured second bath for more room. We will be bathing and grooming dogs in this room. The walk-in shower is mainly for them. The width is 3', the length is over 6'5" - not sure how long we need. ? Suru: Thanks. Made some revisions. The door banging in the master shouldn't be a problem, because it will only hold a safe and not used often. With the revision on the north wall in the dining room there are now windows with counter height cabinets below. The only thing I haven't placed is the built-in vac motor/canister. Wondering if it could go in those cabinets? I'm posting two elevations. One gable, one shed. The shed is of a timber framed house - which we love, but probably can't afford, but would would still prefer to do a shed roof. After reading comments, my 'symmetrical' husband is suggesting maybe we bump out the master room wall either west or north to be equal with the center section. I think that would be fine with the shed roof and keeping the sides lower than the center, but not so much with a gable. ? We would welcome all suggestions. I'd imagine a 40x60 is cheaper to build, but I don't like the look of a wide gable. And, no, we don't want to go to a designer, yet, because the last two times we did they didn't listen. Each change we asked for wasn't changed, but something else done - of course with a hefty bill. Lots and lots of corner w/ complicated roofs, J&J bathroom when specifically asked not. Designed for the exterior flash, but we think simple exterior - spend the money inside. Would much rather work it out 95% with input here, then take it in for professional plans for the shell to make sure engineering is correct to handle snow loads, roof loads, etc. Our county doesn't require any plans. On this first elevation (gable roof), we would not do the dormer. Probably not a porch, but an attached pergola. Husband prefers the shed. Can it be done w/o timber framing and at a reasonable cost? This land is similar to ours, you can see why a window on the master W side isn't so much an issue, but if we "grow" the house to move the closet, we could get one. (See new post) Would like to maintain the master being recessed from the front of the house. Revisions: laundry moved, dining expanded with windows, pantry widened, 2nd bath revised for more room (will be great for peeps and dogs). (Yes, small closet in 2nd bedroom, but dog room will be divided to be 3rd bedroom (w/avg closet) and den, before selling. TIA
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Quick question is it okay to have your main entrance into your living area? This was something I was previously told to avoid and to try create a "landing area" where coats etc could be kept and random knocks on the door would not have a direct view to your living area. When doing these things, in order to focus on what I want emphasized, for better or worse, I try to keep as much other stuff the same as possible so the owner doesn't get side tracked and it's easier for them to compare "apples to apples". In this case I was talking about moving the entrance. Sure, the entry could be a little better defined and maybe 5'x5' (1.5mx1.5m) but that's another conversation for another day with your guy/girl. Maybe the front door moves out to the plane of the wall with some sort of entry roof figured out. But foyers don't have to be big to get definition and a visual separation from other spaces. Examples below. Also would the hallways be very dark? This is again something i have tried to avoid. Again, I was focusing on the entry without getting you distracted so I didn't touch that but I'm not in love with that hall either. I'd be getting your designer to take a whole fresh look at that wing which is going to be time consuming. And I do have one question for you....normally the elevations, sections and the plan are developed simultaneously. In your case it looks like you have a well defined hard lined floor plan to the detailed level of different wall thickness shown for the exterior and interior walls but then you drew the elevations on level of what looks like a freehand crayon rough sketch. Does your guy/girl have elevations? If not, they should.
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PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
last year
last modified: last year
"I do understand that is the ideal way to do it."

That is what I strive for, the ideal.

"What other site considerations would I keep in mind?"

Everything

"How would I know if a plan that I had designed specifically for my site, was actually planned with the site in mind outside of the items i mentioned and not just a flipped stock plan."

If you did you should.

"I have also been reading past posts where plans have been critiqued and am curious to see if I’ve picked anything up."

You should have picked up to obtain the site, then design the house to fit the site and meet your needs.

There are so many variables that it is 'ideal' to have a site and design for it.
Stephanie
last year
And just in general as a parent, i wouldnt buy a home that had my kids bedrooms on a separate floor, so i would consider a plan with a primary on the same floor as the rest of the bedrooms for resale.
bpath
last year
The laundry is where your “drop zone” should be, for your keys, umbrella, shoes, etc. Not the laundry, which will have you likely going through the kitchen to get to. In fact, you’d probably be going through the kitchen anyway, to get to almost anywhere. You could go through the dining-turned-parlor, but I’ll bet you wouldn’t.

The house seems to show a basement, but I’m thinking that houses in your area don’t have basements. So, is there enough storage for you?

It sure is a pretty house, though!
cpartist
last year
Keep this as a look you like in your idea book. Then buy your lot and bring this to an architect to show him/her what you like.

If you do build a second floor, put in an elevator. And yes, if you're near the coast, you will need to be above base flood elevation, so how will you plan for that as you age?
Cheree Kennedy (7a SE PA)
Original Author
last year
The area that I am looking to build is about an hour away from NOLA, and not in an area where I have to build above BFE. I was looking at places along the coast but quickly came to my senses about that.

The drop zone idea is something to think about. I live in the city and don’t have a garage. My drop zone is a dresser by the front door. I keep my hats, gloves, scarves, and umbrellas in the drawers. And have trays on top for keys and mail. I actually don’t like the idea that I would seldom be using my front door because I’d be entering from the garage. I would only have one car so could use the garage for overflow storage. But the closets in the house seem sufficient for me. I had assumed the door under the staircase was a closet door. I also tend to buy furniture with storage since my current house has practically no closet space.
And yes, I am keeping a file of all the home plans that I have considered and not completely ruled out. IDEALLY, I will sit with an architect some years from now and explain how I want my house to function, what pleases me aesthetically, and how I want my house to make me feel and we come up with something amazing. But I also want options if the ideal doesn’t materialize.
bpath
last year
Maybe the understairs is a closet, I suppose you should verify. But it isn’t good storage. I had such a closet.

If you aren’t building for some years yet, your wants and needs will change! But it is a good idea to keep track of the features and styles you know you like and want.
lmckuin
last year
Why are there two powder rooms? The one right off the breakfast nook is in truly a terrible location (no one wants to see/ hear a toilet from a public space).
cpartist
last year
But I also want options if the ideal doesn’t materialize.

If you work with a person of design talent, YOUR ideal will materialize.

Also since you plan to age in place, make sure any architect has experience in ADA. You'll want wider hallways and doorways to start.

Here is a list I always post that might help you get started when considering building.

The best houses orient the public rooms towards the south for the best passive solar heating and cooling

The best houses are L, U, T, H, or I shaped.

The best houses are only one to two rooms deep. And covered lanai, porches, garages, etc count as rooms in this case.

The best houses make sure kitchens have natural light, meaning windows so one doesn't have to have lighting 24/7 to use the kitchen. (And no, dining areas with windows 10' or more from the kitchen will not allow for natural light.)

The best houses make sure all public rooms and bedrooms have windows on at least two walls.

The best houses do not if possible put mechanical rooms, pantries or closets on outside walls

The best houses do not have diagonal interior walls making for odd spaces.

The best houses keep public and private spaces separate.

The best houses do not have you walk through the work zone of the kitchen to bring laundry to the laundry room.

The best houses do not have the mudroom go through any of the work zones of the kitchen.

The best houses do not use the kitchen as a hallway to any other rooms.

The best houses do not put toilets or toilet rooms up against bedroom walls or public areas.

The best houses do not have walk in closets too small to stand inside.

The best houses have separation, such as closets, between bedrooms and between bedrooms and public rooms.

The best houses do not have roofs that are overly large, and dominate the exterior of the house.

The best houses do not have stick on exterior materials only on the front façade.

The best houses have an organizing “spine” so it’s easy to determine how to get from room to room in the house and what makes sense. Meaning they don’t have meandering circulation paths.
chicagoans
last year
re: powder rooms: "The one right off the breakfast nook is in truly a terrible location..." I was also very curious about the outside access door in that powder room. That seems awkward, especially for anyone who doesn't check both locks.
bpath
last year
The OP said she would turn that bathroom into a back door entry.
catbuilder
last year
You should allow sufficient room for the staircase so you don't have winders on the landing.
AnnKH
last year
You may have only one car, but a future buyer will probably have 2. I wouldn't build a garage smaller than 24 x 24, especially if you have things to store in the garage. The garage in our previous house was 22 x 22, and it was mighty tight for 2 vehicles, to say nothing of lawn mower, bikes, garbage and recycling containers, etc.
PRO
Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
last year
Very tight. Stairway doesn't have enough room. Not sure the winders are still legal but if so its still only enough risers for an 8' ceiling.
cpartist
last year
You should allow sufficient room for the staircase so you don't have winders on the landing.

I missed the winders. Not really safe when young and definitely not as we age.
Cheree Kennedy (7a SE PA)
Original Author
last year
@lmckuin I don't plan on keeping that 2nd PR as a PR but I do see usefulness. People would have bathroom access from the yard without having to go through the house. Since there are 2 PRs, no one would need to use that one if people are actually eating at the nook or in close proximity. It would be a horrible location if it was the only one though. That is one thing I look for, bathrooms directly off of any living area is a no go for me.

@catbuilder @Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor WINDERS!! See that's why I like these threads. I had no idea what a winder was, so I did a deep dive down the rabbit hole of staircases. LOL. I'm also glad I can do all of this research/information gathering well before I have to make any decisions about anything. The pictures that I have seen of switchback stairs with winders have been stunning but definitely not anything I'd want. Thank you for pointing that out. Jeffery, when you say the stairs are tight, do you mean the space from the wall to the first step or in general? The ceilings are 9ft. I reached out to the designer and he did the stairs could be modified to use a landing instead.

@AnnKH Thanks for the information about the garage size. Since I never had one, I don't have a clue about the sizing of them. If I'm going to spend money to have a 2 car garage built, I'd at least like it to be able to fit 2 cars comfortably, even if I only have 1.

@Mrs Pete Thank you so much for your reply. You gave me a ton of things to consider, especially regarding space for dogs. I guess I have become so accustomed to having 2 huge crates in my current living room, the idea of having a space just for them never even crossed my mind. I guess that would be something that a good architect would incorporate even if I didn't think of it myself!

Huge verandas are on my must have list. I'm willing to scale down/eliminate side ones but I must have a front and back porch. It's just how I imagined living my retirement years, sitting on my porch sipping a glass of iced tea, or maybe bourbon (who knows what's in that glass with crazy old Ms Kennedy), looking at whatever bits of my garden I managed to keep alive, napping with the dogs. I might put in some birdhouses and watch the birds flit around. Just a bunch of nothing. I suppose the amount of veranda that I have will be determined in great part by the site I build on.

Speaking of sites. @Mark Bischak, Architect I bought a book. The Place of Houses. Do you have any opinion on this book?

I apologize to anyone that I didn't specifically name in my replies. I do appreciate the time you all took to reply. Today was the first day that I have used this site from a computer vs my phone and the @ function doesn't work on the mobile app. I had to do some research to figure that out.
palimpsest
last year
The powder room at the back is probably for the pool or for gardeners, so those people are not tracking through the house. If you have neither of those situations, you don't need one in that location.
PRO
Mark Bischak, Architect
last year
I am unfamiliar with the book, but I met Charles Moore very briefly at a lecture he gave at the college I attended. Some of his designs I like and some I do not care for, but he made good architecture.
Cheree Kennedy (7a SE PA)
Original Author
last year
@Mark Bischak, Architect I'm attaching a blurb and photo from the book (and this is just page 24). When I read it, and looked at the house that was being discussed, a lightbulb went off and I was like Oh! I think this might be what @Mark Bischak, Architect is talking about when he stresses how important it is to design the house according to the site. I think I get it now. Well, more than I did before at least.

Please Critique This Floorplan

Mrs Pete

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