Lard has a larger fat crystal than other fats, which is one reason it works so well in pastry. Butter gives great flavor but has a lot of water in it and it melts quickly. The combination of lard and butter in pastry is a great twosome. When I use coconut oil (frozen and grated on the large hole on my box grater), I can reduce the amount of fat by about 25 percent, especially when using pastry flour or milling soft wheat or low-gluten spelt into flour to use for pastry. Good pastry is a combination of tenderness and flakiness and each characteristic is developed differently. Pastry is all about reducing the gluten development in the flour, so choose flour (pastry flour or Southern All-Purpose flours like Martha White, White Lily, Gladiola, Red Band) that has a low protein/gluten content to begin with as a great way to reduce gluten-development up front. If you want more tender pastry while using all-purpose flour you can add a little more fat and add an acid ingredient. Divide the cold fat in two portions and mix one half in the flour until it's very finely mixed. This will coat the flour so it develops the gluten in short strands (hence short-crust pastry) when the liquid is mixed in and will give a tender crust. Quickly add the remaining fat and keep it in larger blobs. When the heat of the oven melts the blobs of fat the steam will raise those layers in the pastry we recognize as a flaky pastry. Vinegar in a recipe is another way to decrease the gluten-development. Adding an acid brings one more tenderizer into play. "Acids soften gluten, breaking apart gluten strands and keeping the pastry tender." When eggs are used in a pastry recipe it is best used for something like a meat pie. The protein from the egg will reinforce the structure of the pastry, making it strong enough to hold a hefty filling. When liquid vegetable oil is used to make pastry it is considered a "warm fat", which coats each particle of flour so completely than no gluten develops. Oil pastries are very tender and tend to be more mealy than flaky since you don't have steam raising those flaky layers. Oil pastry is generally easier to handle and is easy to roll between two sheets of waxed paper. It's neither right or wrong what type of pastry you make - it's just one of those cooking/baking choices we make - BUT - as a general rule of thumb don't take an oil pastry to the fair because it will tend to get judged down because they rarely come up to judging standards. If a sticky dough that is hard to roll-out is your problem, you have too much gluten developed - probably from adding too much liquid and/or using flour that has a high protein content. Northern all-purpose flours like King Arthur and Robin Hood really don't make good pastry because of the high amount of protein. Add as little water as possible!!! As soon as lumps of dough stick together during mixing, stop mixing and adding water. It takes very little extra water, as little as 1/2 teaspoon, to quickly toughen the dough. -Grainlady

linelle, if I lived in another state, the vodka would be cheaper, but here in Michigan it's taxed like crazy. I've been known to bring a bottle back from Chicago, but that's illegal. Ahem. Here a pint is $11 and that's for the cheap Popov stuff. Another poster said you had to have good vodka, that affected the taste, so that ups the price. And I'd rather die of whatever ailment than to ever drink vodka, LOL, although I did spring $22 and buy a bottle to make Lemoncello. We drank a little of it mixed with cranberry juice and I ended up dumping most of it out after about 14 months in my refrigerator, I'm told THAT won't last forever. Hey, I wonder how lemoncello would work in pie crust, for a lemon meringue pie. Hmmmm..... Annie

Thank you - great suggestions. Localeater - I hadn't thought about nesting. I'll take mine with me when I go to the store. Since we downsized I definitely need to maximize storage. Rita - My quiche pan has thin walls and my Emile Henry pie plate has the typical thick stoneware sides - I think the finished crust looks better in the more delicate pan. My custard and souffle dishes are Apilco too. Olychick - I think I'll pick up the Apilco and one of the pans with the removable bottom - and both are available in the W.S. store. They have different sizes too which makes nesting easier. This should be a really nice day - the siblings are bringing tossed salads, fruit plates, mini croissants and scones. Thanks again! Maire

I clicked on Bob's tag and he posted just yesterday...maybe 'hot topics'. I did my first shopper insta-cart last week. I got lucky with a shopper that sent me text pics of questions and what I might want to substitute. (phew) everything was spot on. Thank you so much for finding that old thread! The KingArthur is similar. We don't care for traditional crusts for garden tomato pie/tarts. I press the crumb, lightly, then top with parmesan, then just 2-3 layers of tomatoes. Herbs and some other cheeses what I have. Here is the pic from the link via canary bird. You or anyone is not lazy for not making/baking from scratch. DH is our bread baker and pie crust maker. He makes 4 pie crust and we freeze the other three. Just one in the freezer now. But I don't like traditional pie crust for my garden tomatoes. We like puff pastry or a flaky crust like above. I can't get puff pastry now, but another recipe uses toasted breadcrumbs as the base that is also good. Thawing out homemade pie crust, or starting from scratch is a pita....need to plan ahead. If prepping a gazillion other things with a garden in full swing. (I can get Deflor puff pastry from the wholesaler but it is sold in a case of 24, 😂) Garden tomatoes have been enjoyed fresh for a few weeks. About to get way too many so any recipe is welcome!