Panic Attack, Grief? (long)
Comments (35)
- 3 years ago
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collection of citrus trees and panic attacks
Comments (27)John, Don't worry about thinking your are being too assertive... no offense is taken. I'm just genuinely curious as to why the soft water is perceived as being so terrible. I often see many quite firm statements on a variety of topics (water, fertilizer, temperature, sunlight, methods for planting in ground, etc...) related home gardening. There is a sound horticultural basis behind many of these recommendations, but at the same time I see many firm recommendations that for most people likely make no difference one way or the other. I don't see the point of having this huge list of varying do's and don'ts if a large portion of the recommendations either are minimally helpful, or don't really have any impact. When I began growing container citrus several years ago, I started out all gung-ho trying to do everything under the sun that was recommended to make my trees happy especially in winter (grow lights, supplemental heating, boosting the humidity, etc...). The end result invariably was sickly looking trees. I've had much better luck not really doing too much and allowing the trees to acclimate gradually on their own to whatever their current environment happens to be. Getting back to the soft water question. I completely agree that too much sodium chloride will kill plants, especially citrus. I would also add that too much salt of any kind could kill your plants, of course the lethal concentrations will vary quite widely depending on the specific toxicities. An ion exchange water softener does not add sodium chloride to the water. The sodium chloride is just used to regenerate the ion exchange resin by saturating it with sodium ions. The softening process only replaces the magnesium and calcium ions with sodium. The primary anion before and after treatment should remain carbonate, no additional chloride is added. Since sodium carbonate is much more soluble in water than either magnesium or calcium carbonate, one could argue that it would be more difficult to build up high concentrations of it in the container. This is assuming that one flushes their container with excess water on a semi regular basis. Nevertheless, I doubt this aspect really makes much significant difference one way or the other if the container is being flushed with water periodically. While thinking about this whole issue, I also came across several research papers that investigate the effects of salinity on citrus. The primary toxic effects of "salinity" on citrus are increased osmotic stress and specific ion toxicities. Again, if one is flushing their container with water semi-regularly, osmotic stress should never become an issue, as the excess accumulated salts will be washed out regularly. With respect to ion toxicity, the general consensus seems to be that chloride is a more significant issue than sodium. However, the water softening process does not really add any chloride to the the treated water, therefore its concentration is no different than in the untreated water. The concentration of sodium carbonate in the "softened" water is also not really ever going to be that high (in the neighborhood of 200 ppm, if the input water is classified as very hard). I've seen a study (link below) that subjected citrus to salt (sodium chloride and/or calcium chloride) at concentrations up to 6000 ppm. Although the differences in response to the salt challenge were clearly noticeable among the tested cultivars, the most significantly damaged trees only showed a "slight marginal burn" on the leaves. So even assuming there was 200 ppm sodium chloride in the softened water, it would take several months of watering with no flushing of the soil to build up to these high salt concentrations where there are clearly visible toxicity effects. In summary, I do not see any scientific basis for why "softened" water should be perceived as so bad for citrus culture. At the same time, there is not much evidence that it has any significant benefits. In the absence of finding any direct studies investigating this question, I think the issue is largely irrelevant for container citrus culture. If a few basic care practices are observed (mainly not treating your soil as a black hole in which an infinite amount of fertilizer and soluble salts from the water supply can be allowed to accumulate), it shouldn't really matter. I will add one final caveat, if signs of salt toxicity do happen to appear irrespective of the water source, then one should absolutely start trying to isolate and correct the problem. John, I'm curious to know if you have any additional thoughts. In any case, cheers, and thanks for the discussion! -Scott PS Susan, my sincere apologies for taking your thread off on a little tangent. Here is a link that might be useful: Salt tolerance of some citrus...See Morehealing the pain of grief
Comments (7)Greetings jampack, Thank you for your generous comments. I absolutely, completely agree with you about "reinventing" ourselves. I call it creating a new life using the strengths from the "beloved life" or just simply "the past." We can view the beloved life but we cannot participate in it anymore, so take the strength of the beauty of the memories and the great love shared and heal the pain of grief and move into creating a new life. What really encouraged me in always moving forward in my healing from the pain of grief was to take care with my thoughts and my self-talk. What I think, I create. My thoughts become things. If I think something will be horrible........guess what, it WILL definitely be horrible!! Or, "I will never get through this, I am destined to suffer from now until I die." But, if my thoughts go like this: "This will be a difficult situation for me and I will experience deep pain (or agony, discomfort, embarrassment, fear, etc) but I know with great faith, I will get through this and be stronger for the journey." The situations and events that this can be applied to are endless. But it must be used fervently. It doesn't have to even be believed at first. But practice, practice, practice. Write the phrase down and carry it with you. Having been a consummate, professional horse trainer for over 30 yrs, I used those very skills to train myself to heal. In training horses, compassion, kindness and positivity are the greatest tools for success; and, the successes are measured in tiny increments....tiny steps. When one is in the throes of the most horribly, painful feelings of their entire life, DON'T STOPKEEP MOVING!!! I have heard countless times when I share my story at grief seminars, "When my spouse (child, parent, sibling) died, I died with them and my life has ended." Now, this is 100% true, but only to the extent that the life with the deceased has ended. Then, too, a large percentage of those folks refuse to/don't know how to create a new life. It is common for these folks and fellow grievers to feel that by torturing themselves with as much pain as they can inflict on themselves, they are honoring their beloved departed one. But, just sit back for a moment and do a "what if" scenario. What if you, yourself, died, was killed, committed suicide, or whatever, would you want your family and loved ones to stay in a painful, morose, joyless, depressed agony for the rest of their time on this earth; day after day, year after year???? I absolutely wouldn't. I would pray that they transplant themselves into a wonderful new life to experience once again joy, happiness and love. I have heard the cry, "Will I always feel this way?" or "Will the pain EVER go away?" My answer is a resounding, jubilant YES, YES, YES!!! The pain will recede when you choose to let go of it; but, only if you choose to heal the pain of grief. You must decide for yourself, "Am I clinging to the pain because if I let it go I will lose the love for my beloved or they will forget about me or I will forget about them?????" I can assure you with all of my heart that if you stop clinging and release the grip on what can never be, you will experience the closeness of what can be. (I feel such a warm, loving, close relationship with my Michael, now.) Do you always want to feel "this way?" It is your choice!! Everyone heals at their own pace. Consider it to be like planting a seed. It seems like forever before the little seedling pops through the soil and starts growing towards the energy of the sun, to blossom and grow to grandeur. But, we must keep watering it even if we don't see it yet. So goes our healing. The mind is critical and sharp, with a tendency to focus on what's wrong, rather than appreciating what's right. When you have gone SO far that you can't manage ONE MORE STEP!---------------------Remember, you have gone just half the distance you are capable of. Turquoise...See MoreThinking about anxiety and panic attacks
Comments (42)My thoughts align with SG for the most part, however, I have witnessed post-partum hallucinogenic psychosis and have known suiciders that no amount of self-will training or loving support from others would have prevented. There is a very real need for medicines which manipulate brain chemistry, and fortunately we have progressed in our ability to protect the most fragile in times of severe crisis. I hope that we can all be sensitive and respectful of people who have to resort to urgent pharmological interventions as the most effective and life-enhancing treatment for some types of depression, psychosis and other forms of severe manifestations of emotional distress. By and large, we've come to recognize and accept that brain chemistry and circuitry problems are indeed real physical diseases and that, just as with other diseases, there are various approaches to treating these types of illnesses. But SG's suggestion that it is an industry that is undermining our health is well-founded. Yes, there are appropriate usages for these drugs, but caveat emptor: there are several studies that suggest there is a price yet to be determined in terms of long-term cognitive ability with protracted use of anti-depressants. Consequently, they are currently in disfavor in much of Europe after having been tried, and other more natural treatments are now more routinely explored initially. I don't think these meds are the panacea to be used to mask garden variety discomfort, and I believe that is the segment that is best addressed by SG's approach. I concur with SG and others who suggest that far too many have been persuaded the appropriateness of dealing pharmocologically with the discomfort that is a consequence of simply being human. Grief, anger and other unpleasant emotions serve a real purpose, are often very appropriate responses, and are an intrinsic part of our journey. Often anxiety and difficult emotions are a sign that we really have difficult inner homework to do, and I'd opt for working through the issues whenever possible rather than placating through meds. (I hope readers understand my emphasis is on whenever possible and repeat I'm well aware that it is not always possible or advisable.) My SS, a neurologist, and some physician friends do not agree, and often routinely recommend for themselves and their patients meds to deal with stress and unhappiness rather than undertaking the arduous task of changing the structure of one's life and/or learning healthier responses to challenges. Ergo, it seems we will continue to be less able as a society to go down the path SG suggests. I believe many would be better served by accessing inner resources than by pills, but also know that a requisite foundation of skills, or access to a means to acquire this knowledge, is not within reach for some. Philosophically I can agree with SG that the answers lie within, and wholeheartedly endorse our responsibility to respond with love at all times, but IRL I know some are equipped with damaged circuits through no fault of their own upon arrival as Kkay suggests and others whose circuitry becomes damaged from illness, toxins or accidents, some have been badly wounded experientially, and some just may prefer an easier way out. I'm not sure that SG said there is no physical basis for depression. "Depression/anxiety is actually being stuck, neural-activity wise, in the primal mind of the lower brain." Rather, I understood her comment to signal a real understanding of physiological responses but that we can trigger better responses by substituting different thought patterns, widely endorsed by cognitive therapists and other gurus. SG is quite capable of defending herself, but I know many intelligent, non-cult, independent thinkers, medical professionals and main-stream religious and total non-religious types who concur with this approach. There is no one path to wholeness, and while it is always preferable to rely on inner resources and loving support, it is not always possible. Wholesale dismissal of alternate, non-pharm approaches is not helpful nor is insistence on innate ability to cope with severe illness without intervention. Intelligent discussions of this type can be a wonderful resource for countless anonymous readers in cyberworld who are facing difficulties, seeking solutions and who may need encouragement to face another day....See MoreDog having major panic attacks after moving - owners can't sleep
Comments (3)We moved to a new house in Georgia with my 15 yr old chow chow. We left her in the garage while we went shopping, no fence yet either,and she actually chewed the frame off the door leading back into the house.It took a while for her to calm down to the new surroundings.I would not have purchased a home that would not allow a fence. My dog is a family member, you must think of their needs also....See More
3 years ago
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoCherryfizz thanked carolb_w_fl_coastal_9/10- 3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoCherryfizz thanked carolb_w_fl_coastal_9/10
- 3 years ago
Thank you everyone for your kind advice and condolences. Sending my condolences out to those of you have lost loved ones and friends.
I am kind of thinking it wasn't a panic attack because I remember when my sister and my friend used to have them and they kind of went out of control during the situation. It also isn't my heart because I have recently had my yearly check ups and heart ultrasound with the cardiologist and my heart is ok. It must be grief but my feelings are different this time losing Paul even though I was extremely close to my sisters, they were suffering from terminal cancer and were expecting to die. Paul's death was so unexpected for him and shocking for me. I have handled grief pretty well over the years but as I told my niece and warned her sometimes it gets worse as time moves on. I do find meditation and reading passages in a small book I have about grieving to be helpful during those times.
I don't know if it is anxiety either, I have family members who experience it quite often to the point they just hide away. Same for depression. I don't know how I lucked out but I have never felt depression or experienced it. I am always upbeat and always find joy in something every day. I learned finding the joy in something every day while caring for my Mom because it was pretty tough all those years ago. I do feel and experience grief and the sadness of losing someone but I know what it is I am experiencing and then it goes away.
When I think of Paul and how I was told how chatty he was on the drive to London, happy to be having this surgery done so he could get back out doing the thing he loved it just breaks my heart and that is when I get that feeling and tightness in my chest. He didn't know he would never come back home. I am trying not to think this way because that is when his death hurts me the most.
I start thinking of all the things I will miss about him and the surprises he would do. I remember the time I came home and their was a huge wrapped box near the Christmas tree. He always wrapped the girl's gifts from Santa here so I assumed that was one of the gifts. I did look at the box wondering about it, felt how heavy it was and it couldn't be picked up. I remember telling the KT about this gift that appeared and posted the picture of the wrapped box and you all were guessing what it might be and many of you were right. I went out with Paul the next day and he asked me if I opened the box and I said no, how would I know it was for me. He asked if I peeked and I said no but the people at the KT were guessing as to what it was. When we got home he told me to open it, before Christmas. It was a Kitchen Aid Stand Mixer. He said it was to help me bake the huge batches of cookies I used to make and give away at Christmas. I was so shocked at his surprise and at the KTers guessing correctly as to what was in the box. Many Christmas Eve's, late at night he would call and say check the porch or if I was out and came home after midnight there would be something on the porch. He would leave big filled Christmas stockings hanging from the porch railings for me and my sister. Last Christmas he did it again. He would pick out the best stocking stuffers. One year the stocking was huge about 5 feet long. Many times in the morning or afternoon I would look out the window to see a large cup of coffee on the curb in front of the house. Instead of getting out of the car to put it on the porch or bring it into the house because of his bad knee he would open the car door and leave it on the curb. If I didn't see it, he eventually would call to see if I got the coffee. He was like my Dad because my Dad like surprising people too. I am going to miss those little surprises.
A few years after our Mom and Dad split up and my Mom left us I didn't want to be chief cook and bottle washer, cooking dinners for my Dad, making sure Paul got up for school I moved away, eventually my Dad moved elsewhere and Paul had the house to himself although my Mom and Dad came by weekly. Since Paul died Paul's friends are talking about the greatest party ever held in Riverside. Paul and his friends had a beach party in the winter in our house. They brought truck loads of sand into the house, hung big stuffed fish and nets on the walls. I had concerned neighbours calling me in Calgary where I had moved to. One neighbour even chastised Paul about the sand being brought into the house. So many people, even some high school teachers came to this party. No damage was done, everyone had a great time and 2 days later everything was cleaned up. Paul was so lucky my Dad didn't happen to drop in or my Mom. Years later when we told my Mom about the party she didn't believe it until we showed her the pictures. haha my Dad would have lost control if he had seen that. But everyone is remembering Paul's beach party.
I hardly saw Paul during the pandemic, I wasn't letting anyone into my house and he was being careful because of Laura but I talked to him online everyday. I took all his phone calls from his Doctors, and his appointments and then relayed them on to him. So I sometimes think he is still just going about his business and is not dead but I really know he is.
I had 4 living brothers, 3 older and 1 younger. My sisters were 16 and 10 years older than me. The 2 oldest brothers were nice to me, my next oldest brother who was 6 years older and Paul tortured me haha. I got blamed for everything because Paul was too young and the other brother was too old but it was always them. I don't know how I survived. There were times during my teenage years I would have easily killed Paul if I could. During those days of the month I would have to lock myself in my bedroom and read so I wouldn't kill him haha. We had some good fights and my Dad said most of the time Paul got what he deserved if I hit him where it hurt. Funny when you grow up all that goes away and you start liking each other. This one picture I will post shows me standing on the porch looking upset, I was playing outside on the porch with my dolls and then the brothers start in, most likely teasing me or taking my dolls. You can see Paul's shadow off to the side mimicking me crying.
I have lots of memories with Paul that I will cherish, and can share with his daughter. Also how stubborn and annoying he could be.
Talking about him here has helped, the only time I seem to feel that chest tightness is when I think he didn't know what was going to happen. My mental health is fine and the grief just has to be experienced and the feelings that go with it but then you have to good memories to take away from the sad feelings. Thanks again for listening.
This is one of Paul's photos that I will treasure. - 3 years ago
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