Just for fun I'll post in this ancient thread LOL Joyfulguy Your thoughts on Costcos etc. is how I feel about bottled water. Why buy it when it comes free from the tap and has flouride in it to boot. :) My state is ranked very high on cleanest water anyhow. Anyhow as far as the Costco sitch I side with Costco. Of course it is annoying for the purchaser when they don't know the rules. Who's fault that is I won't touch because I myself don't always pay attention to the rules and get caught out there too. Hey it happens. As to why pay someone for the priveledge to shop in their store. For me I'd rather give them $40 bucks a year and save hundreds over that year than give the local markets all my money for less food. Plus I shop less often and don't have to make trips to the local markets to try and find which one has the sales. Just the amount I save in meats alone is worth it. I was sick last month and didn't feel like driving to BJ's and went to the market. I came home with very little and spent so much money. I wished I had just bundled up and took the drive. BJ's around the Holidays is great! I spend $40 to save literally hundreds. There are other things I won't pay for a membership figure why should I pay you just to join but in the case of BJ's etc. I can see the worth and $40 not bad at all. I'm single but I imagine it would be even better for those with children. So will this thread continue to live or will it die again! Its kinda like Jason Vorhees, it just won't die!

shee- no I have never used Paypal. I've never shopped on Ebay either. I have seen some great things that friends and family have purchased on Ebay. Does Ebay accept any form of payment other than Paypal? I personally like a more straight forward shopping experience. From what I've heard about Ebay, sounds as though there is bidding process? Is that the case with everything on Ebay or only certain items? I love to negotiate when I have my eye on something in an antique shop, estate sale, etc. While I enjoy the negotiating IRL, I don't know that I would do very well doing so online. I experienced identity theft at holiday time a couple of years ago. That was a total nightmare for me as I felt violated that someone had access to my social security number and other personal information. I use my credit card for online purchases. The bank that issued my card is extremely vigilent and actually stopped the use of my credit card on the first purchase attempt by whomever it was that hijacked my info. I never use my debit card for online purchases. Perhaps it is not as big of a risk as I envision, but I don't want to go through the whole identity theft horror again.

OK> So, I'm reading this post due to a recent experience with the plumber my GC is using for our renovation. I got a babysitter to watch my toddler so I could go look at fixtures at their showroom with my baby. So, I get there and they don't have many of the nicer brands on display- they want to show me everything in a catalog!! Well, thank you but I can do that at home. So, fine- I briefly look at the catalog and pick a few things to get prices. They gave me some pricing and I left. So- wouldn't you want to see products in person if you plan to invest nearly $2000 on them?? I dragged my two small children to another local plumbing outfit to see the higher end stuff I got quoted for at the previous place. The prices were more than $500 different!!! I mean to do I have stupid written on my head b/c I have a newborn? Do they just think I don't have time to research and will just take their price?? This mother has an MBA thank you very much. Fine. So I talked to my contractor and he said to approach them on the issue. I did. They claim their product is better quality and that you can get the same things from other dealers but they aren't as heavy... blah blah blah. That may be true for some Kohler fixtures, but not Rohl!!! And I don't even believe them at that. For the amount of money saved I can buy a whole new fixture in a few years if I decide to change it or it goes bad!! Can someone please tell me if these people are just jerking around with me?? I thought about how they may try to pad the rest of the bill if they adjust the fixture prices, so I'm not really sure what to do with this mess. This is why I do NOT trust vendors like this- b/c of dishonest people who try to make excuses for their ridiculous prices.

This is not to be construed as third party interferrance into a contractual relationship because there can't be a contract without first an offer and in our state which is a "buyer beware" state, that offer has to be accompanied by some earnest money or else it's not legally binding and only then can a meeting of the minds take place (an agreement reached -contract stage) This appears to be a communication problem so heres some food for thought. Yes, the Realtor is to present all offers to the seller. And she will. But I would not advise anyone to write it on a napkin. Not even a white house napkin can provide a person the protection she is offering. The association paper is there to protect the public *not* do them in. The public includes the buyer, the seller and every one involved... not just the buyer. In other words it covers a lot of already explored territory; they keep up with issues based on cases and outcomes to protect the public. Is it perfect, NO. Because when you think everything that can happen has already happened something new will pop up. So, if one wish to write it on a napkin go ahead, but the realtor must advise her seller not to sign off. Most of the time the agent holds the pen... But she does not provide the answers. That has to come from buyers and sellers. She fills out the paperwork from questions asked on that form. It covers a lot. Ask for a blank copy and pre-read it, then ask questions on any topic not understood. Sometimes buying foreclosures require signing specific paper put together by Real Estate Attorneys in another part of the world. And there are variances in state laws. Where there is a variance in any association or seller required paper work it has to adhere to the law of the state where the transaction occurs. A lead base paint disclosure is a good example of buyer protection; It is required by the FEDERAL GOVENMENT (not the local association) on any home built before 1978 and has to be filled out by the seller (they are asked if they have any knowledge of it in that home, when they list) and a publication is given to the buyer to read over and and the buyer must sign to acknowledge they have been informed that there is a possiblitie there could be lead based paint there. If you have concerns about lead base base you can have an inspection. Many FSBO are not aware of this requirement. But ignorance of the law is not excuse for breaking it. Association paper varies from Sate to Sate and from even from one County to another. The reason is they have different problems in different areas of the Country. An example may be radon gas. While I've never heard of it here, some places have a lot of problem with it so to protect the public there will most likely be something in that associations paper recommending an inspection for it. If a buyer does not wish to pay for the inspection then the agent may attached an addendum to the contract signed by the buyer that he or she choose not to have one. That might be OK if the buyer has lived in the house all his or her life and trust there is no problem. The same applies to home inspections, septic tank inspections, termite and wood infestation inspections. Or, a buyer can buy "as is" waving all inspections. I would never do that. You can always buy "as is" but I do recommend this "For your protection, have a home inspection". Then if it meets your expectations buy "as is". Many sellers are selling "as is" today simply because they don't wish to get caught up in a nick-picking wish list to then have a potential buyer change their mind. The next contract that comes along may have other nick-picking ideas. Then another topic was brought up; note key words ready, willing and able. Here are examples of how an agent has brought a buyer which is ready, willing and able to buy to the closing table and at the last minute perhaps the seller can't sign away the house his grandma left him or the title closing attorney cannot close because the seller does not have recorded ingress and egress (a road) to the property. At that point a commission is owed to the agent who brought the buyer whether it was the listing agent, a transaction broker, or a buyers agent. That agent had performed his or her job. The law is that he or she is to be paid. But first there is an offer...then there has to be "a meeting of the minds" if an agreement is reached which produces a contract. I don't think any agent ever made any money where there is not even an offer on the table, so therefore they cannot possibly have a contract to go to a closing table! Sellers have sometimes changed their minds and caused buyers to loose the cost of inspections and other and yes they can sue for specific preformace which forces the other party to perform the action set forth in the contract. On the other hand a seller may wish to sue for specific performance if they gave someone a contract which results in them taking if off the market and loosing other opportunities to sell and the the buyer doesn't execute the contract. I suspect more of the latter may be seen in the near future. When an agent lists a house she becomes the sellers voice. She will present all offers but it has to be reduced to writing! The seller is to refer back to her anyone who makes an inquiry. If another realtor goes around that listing agent to the seller he or she is in violation and could lose his or her license. That's a whole new can of worms. One last thought and that is if a person retains a lawyer to help with a real property transaction by all means hire one who has a real estate licence. Because they all charge for every call and every letter to and from you and on your behalf. But many of them cannot pass a real estate exam. Just because he did a good job of aunt Sally's divorce does not make him an expert on real property matters! If it were me I'd seek my own representation in the form of an ABR (Accredited Buyer's Representative). They represent the buyer not the seller and around here they are usually compensated from the selling side because the listing fee pays many people. The way it it works is the listing fee is divided between two agencies then a portion of that is paid in commission to the realtors who performed the work. I'm not sure how flat fees work but whatever is agreed upon. I hope this helps. I need to get back to my gardening.....then worms. Good luck to all.