Thank you all so much for all the wonderful suggestions for long-lasting roses! I will get busy looking these all up on HMF 😃

Seaside, There is absolutely no photoshopping here on my photos. I wouldn't know what to do with that software if I had it. I'm a tech idiot, and I use an old camera, not a phone.

Ben, your Masora is beautiful, and it's nice to know it lasts well. I have that hot, dry air that is hard on lots of my roses, though not so many anymore. I got rid of most of the heat wimps long ago. Diane

@Diane Brakefield , I didn't mean you! Sorry if it came across that way, it's not what I meant at all. I was referring to sellers who alter pics of the rose varieties they sell, not to your pictures ! I have zero doubts that your roses are really just as gorgeous as in your pics.

Your roses (and @BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) 's Lavender Crush) were what made me fall in love with purple roses. Thank you for sharing their beauty in the pictures you post!

Thanks, Seaside. I knew you didn't mean me, but I was hoping other forum members weren't thinking I did anything to my pics. They do get cropped at times. Aren't purple and lavender roses great. Like others, I've often wished Austin would come up with a deep, dark purple, but Munstead Wood is a good sub. The Prince shows good colors, but he's so picky in the heat. Diane

Munstead Wood a few days ago.

Wow, Munstead looks fantastic!! I'm so excited to hear Blue Bayou is making a comeback... I hope it'll give you good blooms next spring. Can't wait to see pics of him! Why oh why would Kordes discontinue such an incredible blue rose? Perhaps they found a fault with it? BB's color is unmatched!

I agree, Seaside, but BB was picky and unpredictable for me. So far, the blooms this year were awful looking, so it can only get better. It will be pampered this winter. It's very small, too. Diane

More old photos of BB

I read that Austin Sr. disliked the mauve class. So while there might be a few incidental Austin introductions that are sometimes lavender or purple, it was never a goal of his. But Junior’s in charge now, and he’d would probably eat a bug if there’s enough profit to be had, so there’s hope!

Meg

I think some of the longer lasting Austins for cut flowers are Evelyn, Abe, Claire Rose. Other romantic style roses make great cut flowers include Liv Tyler, Rouge Royale, Sweet Madmoiselle. Amazing Grace, Chantilly Cream (a new favorite with outstanding fragrance, garden performance and lasting power)

Amazing Grace

Evelyn

Chantilly Cream

Liv Tyler

Claire Rose

Seaside,

You’ll have to share pics of Theirry Marx when he blooms. Our perfect romantic-style purple might already exist but is just unavailable in North America.

Claire

I agree that some breeders, especially smaller scale ones, would tend to introduce a uniquely beautiful rose that might lack good growth. I’m willing to coddle a few if I think they’re really that special. I have my eye on Victoria’s Secret from this seller, but find absolutely no info on her. I think Meilland and Weeks do a terrific job of vetting their roses in North America and only introduce the ones they find most worthy in garden performance. They’ve probably come across some real special beauties that they passed on.

@Meg-zone8aOR I can offer you an answer to your query why scented roses don't last as long as unscented roses. Please see "Fragrance: Much Ado About Nothing?".

Thanks so much for sharing the link to your article, that was so interesting and informative!

You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Magpie - you are so right! What if Diane grew those roses!!! :) :)

Diane - that Rouge Royale picture is SWOONSVILLE!!! And then there are your purples!!! I can't imagine having those in my yard!! :) :) I'd cry from the beauty. :) Love your Blue Bayou too. :)

Palytoxin - Wow!!! I love the rose you took a screen shot of!! Gorgeous!

Ben - I ordered Chantilly Cream for spring this year, but it never came. Now after seeing yours and reading your description of its fragrance...I really, really want one for next year. I hope the place I order from offers them. Man, oh, man!! I absolutely love your Amazing Grace and Evelyn!!! :) :)

Roseseek - that was a good article you wrote. :) Thanks!

Thanks, @rosecanadian!

Thank you, @be@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14), your roses are so beautiful! I'll have to see if I can find Chantilly Cream after reading your glowing review. I really love the look of Claire rose too with the little button eyes, I hadn't heard of that one before, so thank you!

I think a deep purple with the bloom form of Blue Moon Stone would be pretty but the lighter lavender blooms look like a watercolor with the different shadings, and I wish that was the true color of it. I just don't know of any blooms that look like that. I don't need a blue rose, one like this would be fine. If your eyes are starved for lavender and purple there's clematis:

Perle d' Azur

Prince Charles and Etoile Violette

I was on the David Austin website and they have a link for Japanese roses that takes you here:

https://www.gracerosefarm.com/collections/all/japanese

The low, low price of $99 each

Oops, it was the top hit for David Austin roses, but actually not his website.

@Liz PNW 8b You realize that merchant sells bouquets, not plants of the varieties listed there, right? That's $99 for a bouquet.

Grace Rose Farm has beautiful bouquets! $99 or so so. They are lovely! Fun to follow in instagram. However However, I can nake my own DA bouquets, Lol

Oops! Guess I need to learn to read.

Kim

Thanks for the very thoughtful article, I especially enjoyed reading the comments from past breeders. I agree for many decades ARS Ratings were heavily biased towards exhibition roses, which was at odds with a general public that just wanted good garden performance and fragrance. I do think a few of the roses you mentioned, Double Delight and Fragrant Cloud for example, are both extraordinarily fragrant and long lasting cut flowers. I also think the situation is improving with many newer roses like Rouge Royale , Loves Promise and Chantilly Cream we have thick petaled roses that smell great.

Liz,

Mistake or not, I enjoyed looking at Grace’s new Japanese offerings, so thank you!

Erasmus

When I saw that pic of Blue Moon Stone I also thought only flowers like clematis, iris or pansies have that color. Those plants have pigments in their blooms that don’t exist in roses.

Carol, Meg

I hope you do get Chantilly Cream! I only bought it on a whim because it looked and smelled so good at the nursery. A creamy yellow rose wasn’t anything I thought I wanted, but it has just been extraordinary, flush after heavy flush of big blooms loaded with rich citrus scent.

I think a good clue to check if a bluish rose pic has been altered is to look at the foliage. If the foliage also looks a weird shade of holly blue green, then the pic has likely been altered. Below is a pic of Lila Vidri, one of my consistenly bluer lavenders. You can see that the foliage is very natural looking, not blue at all.

Grace Rose Farms is now selling rose bushes as well as cut roses (around $45-$50 per plant)

@Meg-zone8aOR

Oh!!!!!! I am going to have to check Gracie’s Rose Farm for sale roses bushes, Woohoo!!!! They must be wonderful! Looking now….. Thank you!

EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!

OH MY, MY, MY!!!!!!!!!!! GRACIES ROSE FARM HAS 45,000 rose bushes for sale! MANY David Austins!!!!!!!!! & PRECIOUS ROSES WE LOVE!!!! GREAT ROSE BUSHES FOR BOUQUETS ARE FOR SALE!!!!!! CHECK IT OUT!!!! All their rose bushes 2-3 years old, bare-root abd tgey cime own-root or .grafted. Rootstock-Dr Huey!

I wonder what rootstock Grace Farm uses.

Ben, that's a pretty Lila Vidri...where did you snag one? Thanks for tips on how to recognize photoshopping.

Dr Huey!

Does Grace Farms ship their rose bushes ?

Erasmus

My Lila Vidri came from Rogue Valley. I had read so many good things about her over the years that I grabbed one when it came in stock.

@Kristine LeGault 8a pnw Yes, they ship at your planting time. All floral bouquet ”rose bushes, too.” A lot of our favorites!!!

Cost, Kitty?? I think only bare roots can come into Idaho legally. Diane

All the American growers use "Dr. Phooey". Great for the growers, terrible for the consumer.

I love Dr Phooey. Diane

@Diane Brakefield As a rootstock, it works well for most cultivars grafted onto it, but its really only great with modern stuff.

However, the majority of growers using 'Dr. Huey' as an understock are using virus infected stock, and that's not good for the consumer. Also, in my experience with it, 'Dr. Huey' inevitably sends up suckers below the scion, and at that point, there's no hope of ever being 100% rid of Huey suckers. The joke here in the PNW is that 'Dr. Huey' is Oregon's "favorite" rose, because around here, you can find more examples of it than all other varieties combined.

Dr. Huey is the unofficial State Rose of California. There are more of him in the state than any other. The real official State Rose of California is California Centennial, by legislative proclamation in September of 1949. And, Huey is IMMORTAL. NOTHING will kill it but Vitamin R!

Diane,

Grace Rose Farm rose bushes approx. $45-$50.

I would first look at Cattail Creek Gardens to order, roses excellent own-root-DAs & few others and similar pricing.

Both have great DAs and few others!!!!

Oh, you guys. I still love Huey as a rootstock, though multiflora works well here, too, in spite of our alkaline soil. I do not like modern own root roses. The two I grow are mediocre. I've grown roses for decades at two locations, and I want my roses grafted. To each his/her own. Diane

Diane, That’s very interesting! You have this very warm-hot climate and it appears grafted do better for you. Which own-roots do “not do well for you?”

I have lots of own-roots that seem to grow better than my grafted. My own-roots are often taller and of course make it better through my freezzzzzzzzing burrrrrrrrrrrrr winters, Lol!!!!!!! However, my Palatine grafted are BIG & HAPPY! So as long as I keep the bud unions warm, maybe I won’t get suckers! So far, I mainly have DA grafted and they are beautiful!

There are positives to both types of roses!

@KittyNYz6 Cattail Creak doesn't specify the rootstock and with that we can only assume it is Dr. Huey. Did I miss something on their site?

Kitty, the own root roses that are mediocre for me are Abe Darby, and an own root Julia Child I got by accident about seven years ago. I checked tag after I'd had it about a year and found out it was own root. I got many of my best roses locally from Edwards, and they always have tags straight from the company that produced the rose. Anyway, I have wonderful grafted Julias, starting their 19th year, grafted on Huey. They so outbloom the own root, and the blooms are larger. The OR grows nicely with a lovely growth habit, but it's the blooming that is inferior to the grafted. Abe just doesn't want to grow much and doesn't bloom that much either, though they are beautiful. But the blooms are too big and heavy for Abe's little canes to support. I never lose roses to cold winters, and I don't do any winter protecting.

Nobody suggested that modern roses don't perform far better when grafted onto a strong rootstock. They do. But of all the rootstocks to use, the US growers had to settle for 'Dr. Huey'. Sure, you get a strong plant that outperforms an own-root plant of the same variety. Same can be said for R. multiflora, R. Laxa, or even 'Ragged Robin' and 'Pink Clouds'.

But Huey rootstock is guaranteed to take over the scion at some point, ruining the plant. And it probably has virus too. Phooey.

Better choices could have been made at numerous stages in the evolution of the industry. But no - we got 'Dr. Huey'.

I usually find that multiflora is a better rootstock here. If Gracie Farm had plants on multiflora I'd be willing to pay their prices. But I can get a lot of plants they offer on Dr. Huey at lower prices.

I see that Regan's nursery offers some plants on multiflora but they say those plants are from Canada and due to climate are smaller than regular grade 1 plants. I don't get that because Palatine is from Canada and they offer exceptionally big plants. Maybe they're in a warmer part of Canada.

I wonder how many sellers of grafted plants buy their plants from the same mass producers, and how many of them produce their own grafted plants.

A nearby rose friend grows mostly Austins and he likes them own root so they won't grow as huge. His plants were full of buds about 6 weeks after the first flush. I have never noticed any smaller sizes of his blooms. Conditions vary in every garden though so what does best for some may not be best for others. I'm just saying an own root rose garden full of Austins can do very well. In my own garden there is a mix of own root and grafted and various root stocks. Many of my plants have a nice fall flush but not that much bloom in the heat of summer.

I do have some Dr. Huey plants sprouted up from rootstocks. I like the color.

@The Rose Geek Hi, Cattail Creek Gardens has ”only own-root roses in 3 gallon pots,” and mostly all David Austins, some others. They do not graft at all, no Dr Hueys, Lol

@erasmus_gw I like your ideas. My grafted DA on mutiflora have not done as well as my own roots, many of my grafted are smaller rose bushes in 2nd season, probably due to my freezing winters. . However, mutiflora grafted Princess Alexandria had 5 ft canes, huge blooms. I have a very large big blooming Eglantyne first season! My 3 Palatine roses are all huge first year. I have a huge 5 ft each year grafted Moonlight Magic HT! I may need to be careful to mulch them over the graft well & give them great fertilizer-I think they all can be nurtured to do well!!! Anne Boylene was grafted & she does very well growing vigorously! I just have to be extra careful w/ grafted due to my freezing cold winters.

It’s just easier to make it through freezing winters w/ own roots here.

Also, I like that own-roots always stay true to variety-no surprise Dr Huey suckers.

I read that one reason grafted roses were created was because exhibition,, florist, and roses that have weak rooting systems such as some hybrid teas benefit from a grafted stronger root system. It shoots them up tall and they have taller upright canes. Thus exhibition & other grafted roses have tall canes and big plump blooms.

However, own-root roses spread out more as every shoot from the base is ok to keep soreading the bush wider, there are no suckers to avoid, own roots- thus giving you more full bushy garden roses.

Diane, Do you only have 2 own roots, Abe and Julia? Do you have any grafted Abe? My Abe is the smallest of my grafted roses-it fets BS easily & has been weaker for last 2 yrs. But I lovec Abe!

It is an interesting dilema own—roots vrs. grafted.

@KittyNYz6 Can you send me the link to the page that shows that. I am fairly certain that the rose I received from them was grafted. If they are selling own-root, that would be good information for people to know...although......I would prefer that people consider another vendor that provides better customer service, reasonable prices, a warranty, and the correct variety purchased.

"I wonder how many sellers of grafted plants buy their plants from the same mass producers, and how many of them produce their own grafted plants."

I expect that almost all retail sellers of grafted plants (smaller nurseries, smaller than Edmunds, etc) are buying wholesale from one of the large commercial growers, probably one of the Tyler growers, and then reselling.

@The Rose Geek

cattail-creekCreek.com

Cattail Creek Gardens says, “container grown roses.” I think that means own-root. They do not say grafted anywhere in their site.

CUSTOMER SERVICE: GREAT! I emailed them and received an answer in 24 hrs to adjust sending my order when I wanted-they were very hospitable. I received very informative receipt and shipping email in very timely fashions.

CATTAIL CREEK GARDENS has a refund/return/credit policy like warranty.

All vendors have made a mistake on orders at sometime, but I received the correct wonderful rose-it was really beautiful & reasonably priced, James Galway. The rose was about 2-3 years old thus $45-$50 in 3 gallon container. Biggest rose I ever had shipped. I have bought from most all the well-known vendors. I have had 150 roses in last 2 years. Cattail Creek ship bigger roses than Heirloom Roses.

I plan to buy my DA roses from them whenever I need them! They are excellent!

I don't know, Kitty. Most container grown plants offered at places like Lowe's Hardware are grafted. Would have to ask Cattail. I do have the same speculation you have, that grafted plants can do better at first due to age and size of plant. I think it takes more patience with an own root plant but many will be plenty vigorous given enough time. Some just won't do well own root. PLenty of my larger plants are own root. I really like grafted ones on multiflora too. ( Palatine) Have also been happy with some on Fortuniana.

I thought I read somewhere here that Palatine is going to buy some grafted Austins and sell them.

@KittyNYz6 Hi again! I think that CC buys bare root (grafted roses) and pots them up in containers. This allows them to state "Container Grown Roses".

If they were selling own-root, they would ensure to note that on the site as that is the preference for many Rosarians. Because they aren't being clear, we have to assume they are grafted.

I am including a picture of the rose that I received from CC. You will see a blue arrow that I would have assumed was where they cut the stock when it was successfully grafted. But the more I am looking at it, I am thinking that the red circle portion is where they removed Dr. Huey. In this example I think they actually cut into the rose to remove it.

Am I certain it is grafted - yes. Can I be certain it is Dr. Huey - No. But I will let you know within the next few years when he shows his face. LOL

Thanks for the pic , Rose Geek. My hunch is CC buys from Austin, they’re not offereing anything different from Ausitin, the value add for me is that they’ve grown them for a while in those 3 gal pots and you get a plant with the feeder roots grown out. That’d mean grafted on the Good Doctor.

Usually when a seller grafts their own or sells own root, they will make it very, very clear. There’s no question about root origin for K&M, Palatine, Wisconsin, Long Ago , Burling, Hummingbird. Agree with Paul that otherwise the plants are re-sold from wholesalers like Weeks, Certified, Star, DA.

Kitty,

Thanks for that pic of the whole big plant. I would certainly buy that, regardless of rootstock.

I believe the photo @therosegeek posted above illustrates a grafted plant.

If you look at reviews on Garden Watchdog for Cattail Creek, (there are only two reviews) one states that the customer apparently received a grafted plant and when contacting CC about this, they offered to take the plant back and swap it for an own-root plant of the same variety.

Although the review doesn't make it absolutely clear that they were sold a grafted rose, that is certainly implied in their review. It was also implied that CC sells both own root and grafted roses, but I would want to ask a direct question of the nursery to make a factual determination.

@The Rose Geek

I would like to know for certain. I sent a message to Cattail Creek. I’ll let you know their response ……

OH, MY MY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look at this….. I pushed soil back to see if my Cattail Creek potted James Galway rose was ”really grafted?” And look!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When it came I noticed this buddish appearing cane area above pot soil so I pushed soil up to cover it-thought that was weird! That’s the bud union!!!!!!! It has roots way below it that are feathery trying to establish-doesnt look like it’s been in the soil growing very long-maybe 6 months. Very little roots for that huge size of rose. They definitely bought it grafted, cut down the large long roots to fit into that pot and it has grown a few small feathery roots. Usually DA roses in Texas have canes that thick but longer way thicker roots!!!! It’s roots have been reduced, Lol I do not think it benefited the rose to reduce the roots size!!!!! just benefited them to fit into that pot. Ha!

So you can buy same rose from DA with bigger roots, maybe a few months earlier, spring, Lol! For $10-15 less! I also would prefer if Cattail Creek told me it was grafted!!!!!!!!! I think customers need to know beforecthey buy!!!

Thank you!! @erasmus_gw, @BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) and @User! I would not have discovered it was grafted without you!!!! I need to know to take extra care in winter!!!

Although, on other hand, their roses look really healthy! I received a lot of poor looking bareroots in last 2 years-lots black canes. ,I lije that Cattail Creek seems to have very healthy looking roses!!!!! A real plus!!!! They are already growing well w/ roots in soil and green pretty healthy thick tall canes!

I guess there are plus & minus to Cattail Creek.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) Ben, I saw you were looking for information about Victoria's Secret. It is a cutting rose that you can sometimes find in fresh flower markets. Actually there are more and more fancy floral roses being sold in stores like Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Safeway, etc, over the last a couple of years. I have found many interesting ones such as Xpression series (wedding xpression, peach xpression, etc.), Antike series (caramel antike, etc), Country series (Country blues, Country Spirit, Country Home, etc.) in local stores. I have heard that there are more varieties available in California including DA wedding roses and Princess series from Japan, so you are in the right place. These cutting roses can be rooted, although success rate might not be high. I am thinking about buying those banquet roses and try rooting them to help me survive the 6 months of winter here.

Claire

Thanks Claire! Did you actually see Victoria’s Secret, if so, did it look like the kateroses pic?

I have not seen it in person; i have heard about it though and seen some online photos. You might want to consider vuvuzela; vuvuzela has a similar look and has proven to be a solid performer.