Over 200 year old heart pine floors

last year

Hi, I am on the fence about this. Thinking some input might help.
I am in the process of renovating a condo in Charleston. It was originally a rice warehouse built in 1780. We recently discovered the original heart pine floors nailed to the joists. They were under 100 year old pine, then tar paper. They are heavily stained black. The widths range from 8" to 16" and some boards are 16' long. This is the original old growth pine cut down by the colonists when they settled Charleston. There are 25-30 growth rings per square inch. I have "the" floor guy in Charleston restoring the floors. They have been cleaned and wire brushed and oiled, the method he prefers with this really old original heart pine. My dilemma is do I leave it like it is now? It is very rustic, not what I am used to. The next step is sanding, then there is no going back to this look. Now, you can see all the history. Once sanded, it will become more red not the black it is now. I have decorated my condo pretty high end with furnishings, appliances, etc. and I know decor wise, sanding and putting a wax or water based finish will make them "dressier ." He doesn't recommend polyurethane. Being a wood guy, he is all about keeping the history of the floors, but from an aesthetic view, I am leaning toward sanding them.
I am attaching pics of how they are now and a pic of the floors in a condo in the same building that sanded theirs. They are the red heart pine floors.

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Sherri Brown
Original Author

last year

Well, here they are sanded and finished in Loba Impact oil in transparent. I am happy with the results. They still look like 240 year old heart pine floors, but cleaned up and splinter free!

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Comments (45)

Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
Sorry, I posted the wrong pic above! This is a pic of what someone did to the same floors I have. Sanded and finished.
James Cronk
last year
last modified: last year
I don't have an opinion or advice on what to do with the floors, but wow, those are beautiful! Having old growth hardwood floors with 16' long planks is a treasure. Congrats on the condo and your floors!
Sherri Brown thanked James Cronk
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Woods going to expand and contract. But it wont close a 1/2 gap. Ripping a board down will be just fine. When the planks gap out that much first thing i would do is clean the gap as much as possible. Im sure the inside edges are caked with gunk. Clean that well, glue in your wedge pieces, and finish away. Are you refinishing the entire floor? Or just plan on finishing the wedge pieces? Its hard to tell but my guess is the exsisting finish looks like a varnish. With that in mind you cant put your typical polyurethane over varnish or shellac. It doesnt adhere properly and will just flake off. So you can find varnish still and i would use that if youre not up to the task to sand down to bare wood. If you watch This Old House they did a show where they put pieces of rope between the planks. Looked ok. Not a fan personally but its another idea. Being the house is as old as it is you cant really go wrong looks wise. Good luck!
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You could take existing wood flooring out of existing closets and use that to match the new areas in your living room. Then take your newly purchased heart pine and put it in the closets. Regardless of whether the bedroom is on the 1st or 2nd floor, I'd just lay the new wood and then finish. We have oil finished floors. About 5 yrs ago, we added new white oak in a room, while the rest of the house was 1919 white oak. Our flooring guy told us that, over time, oil would allow the new wood to "age" and match the old. This has happened. All our flooring is golden in color. We had to move out of our house for 2 nights at the time the oil was applied because the smell was toxic. If you want it to match perfectly from day 1, it probably won't happen. If you can let it match over time, oil is the way to go.
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Shellac's solvent is denatured alcohol (or, um, real alcohol if that's handier.) If that doesn't work try mineral spirits or turp - it might just be old-fashioned varnish. Or you can have both, in serial layers. Oh, the joys of old houses! Either way, you'll know pretty quickly because the paper towel you rub the solvent on with will get sticky when you have a match between the product and the solvent. Do the tests in an out-of-the-way spot, naturally. It would be fab if it's shellac as it's much easier to lift than paint. The issue with paint is that it gets deep in the grain and between the boards and trying to sand down below it for total removal can result in sanding too deep. Believe it or not some of us actually still use shellac on floors. It has many adavantages: it's natural (it's made from insect secretions, which may or may not cheer you up!); it's almost completely reversible (as you will find if that's shellac on your floors, you'll bless who ever put it down); and it's touch-up-able as new coats actually dissolve the coat below. It is uncommon now and many (trades)people never having worked with it consider it too tricky to apply so there is much recommendation against it. It is not as durable as poly, though, and it is particularly vulnerable to water. (Though you can wax it - with well-buffed paste wax - to increase its resistance to water. It's very old-fashioned. I don't think it's as fouly stinky as poly. I like the softer, less plastic-y look to it, especially when waxed. It probably takes longer to apply (more coats) than slapping on some poly, which may be partly why it fell out of favor. Casey usually chimes with good advice about buying it dry and recommends not buying it at big box stores because their stuff is not fresh. One buys the shellac flakes in various tints and mixes with alcohol in situ. I think it is harder to apply when it is very hot and humid. At least I have more problems with uneven drying which can lead to a cloudiness. (Not fatal, but requiring another coat.) Try Googling about this. If you get beyond the anti-shellac propaganda, you'll find info and Youtubes of people who have done it. HTH L.
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ffpalms
last year
I think your high end furnishings contrasted with the rustic floor will be utterly gorgeous. The bedroom pic you posted convinced me that I would leave them as they are. So beautiful!
Sherri Brown thanked ffpalms
decoenthusiaste
last year
Its a much bigger project, but have you considered flipping them so the underside comes up top? That side might be easier to deal with and get exactly the look you want. When we rebuilt our 1860's cabin, the floors were shot but some were purchased that had been in an old paint shop. Of course, the top was covered with all kinds/colors of paint, but we just flipped them over and had the beautiful original side to work with. Yours are already installed, so the project isn't as easy, but do you have any idea what the other side of the wood looks like? I often advise posters to paint or stain floors (usually parquet) black for a more upscale/contemporary look.. That might be an option too. Here's an example.

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Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
Thanks everyone. I forget to say we are on top of a restaurant and our floors are their ceilings! So, removing them from the joists isn't a possibility. I wish we could. Also, there's a very good chance of them splintering if we try to pry them up from the joists.
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
Some more pics!
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Sabrina Alfin Interiors
last year
Defintely sand them and wax them. They're gorgeous!
Sherri Brown thanked Sabrina Alfin Interiors
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Beth H. :
last year
I don't like the floors w/what's going on in the room. the brick, the pink walls, the furnishings. I don't think it works. They look VERY rustic. and dirty. (I know they aren't, but that's how it looks) Those floors need more of a primitive type of design and furnishings. Unless you swing the other way and go industrial.

i like the floors like this
Sherri Brown thanked Beth H. :
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Patricia Colwell Consulting
last year
I ahve to agree I would keep them as is and do a really upscale contemporary space with white sheep skin rugs and awesome high end furnishings I love the juxtapositon or fealy old and rustic with really comtemporary.
Sherri Brown thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
All the furniture is new and will not be changed. We had already sanded and refinished the 100 year old pine and the painter set off a fire sprinkler head and flooded my entire condo. This was what was almost the end of a 15 month renovation. The silver lining is finding these floors. I have traditional taste...Chesterfield sofa, antiques. This has been a labor of love. I live in New Orleans and this will be our vacation home.

I really appreciate all the input. But, just want to state the only changing is possibly the floors. We are at the finish line and if I am going to sand these floors, n

ow is the time to do it before I finish with rugs and the rest of the furnishings.
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HALLETT & Co.
last year
They are certainly unique as they are, but I would prefer a more traditional smooth finish with everything else I see in the space . I’m in savannah so I deal with heart pine a lot if that matters… if you told me you loved the rustic floors that would become the feature I would design around.
Sherri Brown thanked HALLETT & Co.
Sherry8aNorthAL
last year
Are you concerned about selling in a year or so? If not, do which look you like. Find another "pro" if you want a different look..
Sherri Brown thanked Sherry8aNorthAL
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Beth H. :
last year
what do you like? that's all that matters.
ShadyWillowFarm
last year
I think they look rough rather than rustic, and would sand them. Another option would be to live with them for a while, although it would be a job to clear everything out again if you do decide to sand them in the future.
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
I actually thought about waitng, and possibly doing it later. But, I would probably have to put everything in storage at that point. Right now, they can move furniture in other rooms and close the doors while they do room by room.

Again, thanks for all the input! The are rough looking right now. They have removed everything possible without sanding. There is paint, glue, etc. It tells a story. My floor guy says it's a matter of preference and he can do whatever I want.
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
I actually thought about waitng, and possibly doing it later. But, I would probably have to put everything in storage at that point. Right now, they can move furniture in other rooms and close the doors while they do room by room.

Again, thanks for all the input! The are rough looking right now. They have removed everything possible without sanding. There is paint, glue, etc. It tells a story. My floor guy says it's a matter of preference and he can do whatever I want.
kelli_ga
last year
last modified: last year
The picture with your shoes bugs me, but the other pictures don’t. Could you spot clean/sand/oil (or whatever) the spots you don’t like?

It really comes down to how the floors make you feel.

I would think that if you want to keep the current finish, if you feel that the decor is not working, you could add a couple of unique vintage accessories (or industrial) to make it all come together.

If it were me, I’d take some blue tape and mark the spots that need to go, then assess.
Sherri Brown thanked kelli_ga
liasch
last year
I’ve seen very rough looking floors work, particularly in English decorating country houses. However given your decorating style I would be inclined to sand and wax them. I think you need a more polished look. And I would not be too concerned about saving the history of the floor.
Sherri Brown thanked liasch
Sherry8aNorthAL
last year
last modified: last year
If it was mine, I would cover the old floor with a new one. However, I do not like what is called distressed either.
sackingj
last year
Well I love old, rustic, and original, and I’m usually all about historic preservation but these floors look like you couldn’t walk on them barefoot without getting splinters. I’d have mixed emotions about it, but I guess I would go with sanded & waxed. Maybe also filling in the holes and cracks with some appropriate color putty.
Sherri Brown thanked sackingj
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
I am with you. Mixed emotions. I did walk on them barefoot and did get a splinter! I am leaning toward sanding them. They will definitely fill them. One of these boards is 1K! I had to do minimal patching. Thank goodness. I am grateful to find these! A rare find! People did some crazy things back in the day. One of my bedrooms had carpet on top of 100 year old pine which was on top of 200 year old pine.
palimpsest
last year
I like them as you have them now, and I like the level your neighbor has taken them to, sorta, but if you sand all the character out of them and make them look too new like some of the examples above...well you might as well cover them up with a modern floor and preserve them for someone else.
Sherri Brown thanked palimpsest
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
I will absolutely discuss this with my guy. I met with them yesterday and he confirmed they will still look old with most of the character. He specializes in restoring antique heart pine in the Charleston area. That's why he doesn't put any shiny finish. He uses oil or a matte finish. We want these floors looking like 200 year old floors with character! He specifically said all the nail holes, wheel marks, etc. will still be there. If anything, I think sanding them will bring out the natural character of the wood. Right now a lot of that is covered with stains, glue, paint. We want to see those tight growth rings!
Kendrah
last year
I have a deep appreciation for historic floors and the stories they tell, however, to be super blunt, I don't think your unfinished floors look very nice or particularly historic, they just look beat up. I think refinishing them will bring out some of the depth of grain, knots, and rings and provide a more historic look. I get your hesitation, but I think the pic from your neighbor is stunning. It still has tons of character and you see so much more of the grain. Sometimes historic floors end up looking too plasticy when refinished. But I don't think that is all the case with the pic you posted.

I just moved from a house that had 170 year old heart pine floors. I couldn't sand mine because they were paper thin, almost nothing left to them. I'm familiar with getting splinters and having to warn friends of and house guests of the same. I loved my floors and refused to rip them out. Plenty of people I am sure thought they were ugly and why not just start over.
Sherri Brown thanked Kendrah
cjs4775
last year
Hey Sheri. Pics below are of heart pine circa 1840s in my Philadelphia home. We had these refinished by a ”the guy” in 2015 and he did an excellent job balacing smooth polish vs age/damage reality - they were buried under all sorts of stuff. A lot of oil sealer and poly though the details escape me. I’m grateful he didn’t oversand them into a place they didn’t want to go, though still have a very silky, great feel with no splinters etc. I love them but regret not looking into options for a lighter finish at the time. We’re moving in 2 weeks, so floors are currently covered with boxes, orherwise I’d post pics showing more space. I’m having the 130ish year old heart pine in our new old place finished naturally with Bona products and I love it.
Sherri Brown thanked cjs4775
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
We are lucky. These have never been sanded. They were the floors of a rice warehouse. Then, I assume someone came in and covered them up multiple times. The seams are where walls once were. I love the story of that. Having a historical house is not for everyone. My floors are uneven and because they're nailed to the joists, they'll stay that way. There's a lack of symmetry. But, I love the imperfection of old houses.
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
Gorgeous! I have reclaimed heart pine in my home in New Orleans and I get what you mean. They have polyurethane. Seems that was the finish used in the past, and still used. Mine need to be resanded and another coat of polyurethane which I have been avoiding. I do like the more low maintenance, low sheen, low VOC products used more today.
palimpsest
last year
The 1830 house I lived in originally had unfinished floors that were later painted. They were never varnished or shellacked. It was a large house and the owners were probably affluent enough to have wall to wall carpet in most rooms. (Narrow strips tacked down with blue tacks.) We found some remnants of this in our attic.
ffpalms
last year
I thought you might like to see this image of the 2017 Southern Living Idea House with a similar floor.
PRO
Home Reborn
last year
My 200-year-old farmhouse has lovely pine floors which were very lightly sanded and poyurethaned about a decade ago - to me the look is perfect, and very much like your condo neighbours. I think your floors are lovely too, but a bit too dark and rustic. Here's what mine look like:
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Kendrah
last year
Love the pics posted by the person with the Philly floors. Your floors will still have plenty of quirks and imperfections even if you get them redone like that. You will not be erasing history, just making it more visable.
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
I spoke with John Griffiths this morning (floor guy).

They will begin sanding soon. I will post pics soon!
cjs4775
last year
Here’s some heart pine that needed a ton of TLC after 2 coats of Bona Naturalseal. Traffic HD going down today and tomorrow. Plenty of lingering imperfections from 130+ years of abuse but we love where they ended up. I’m glad we went light. Close up from a room covered in layers of paint!
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
last year
"what do you like? that's all that matters."

I could not disagree more. If you want to do whatever you please, build new or find a recently-built place please. When you've got something that's survived recessions, depressions, civil and world wars, it deserves more consideration than the fashion whims of the day. Show some respect for the historic fabric please.
Sherri Brown
Original Author
last year
Every one involved in this project has put historic preservation first. I agree with you, preserving the history of any old home has to be considered in all design aspects. I am thankful I have someone who restores most of the historic heart pine floors here in Charleston.
Jilly
last year
last modified: last year
Just seeing this, what a treasure you have. So glad your focus is preserving history (whichever you decide — I like them both). Someday, it’ll all be gone in the US because of Fads du Jour.

Please show updates. It’s going to be fabulous. And how refreshing to hear of a traditional house with traditional furnishings.
sackingj
last year
The example you provided of the same floor in your neighbor’s place, sanded & finished is definitely still historic and looks good. It’s still the original floor, just a little less rustic/industrial looking (and nicer to your bare feet). The purpose of the building has already changed, it’s not a rice warehouse anymore, after all. You are allowed to make it liveable. You won’t be ruining the history of the place by doing that to the floor.
ShadyWillowFarm
last year
Not sure why anyone would object to sanding off the crap people put on top of those original floors.
Jilly
last year
Sherri, wow, STUNNING. Best of both worlds! Just gorgeous.

Thanks for updating, so glad you’re happy with them.
Sherri Brown thanked Jilly
cjs4775
last year
They look incredible!
Sherri Brown thanked cjs4775
ptreckel
last year
Beautiful. Thank you for working through your dilemma on this platform so others could see your commitment to preservation. It is appreciated. I was going to suggest getting slippers vs. sanding, but I think your solution is the perfect one. I love that the age and wear is visible in your floors. BRAVO!
Sherri Brown thanked ptreckel
ShadyWillowFarm
last year
Gorgeous!!!! Don’t you just want to lay down and hug them???
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Beth H. :
last year
you know what's even cooler? knowing that the wood in those floors are from a tree that was there when Columbus landed on this continent. The floors may be 280 years, but the wood is prob twice that.
Sherri Brown thanked Beth H. :
RedRyder
last year
They’re beautiful! And you did just the right amount of work on them. You will love having such lovely, historic floors. 😍
Sherri Brown thanked RedRyder