200 year old floor joints need filling

10 years ago

I'm in the process of helping my daughter repair the floors in her home. It is close to 200 years old and historic. Floorboards are random widths with some up to nearly 20" wide. Wood species vary from pine, chestnut, oak and cherry, depending on the room.

There have been repair attempts over the years to repair the gaps between the floorboards and they all appear to have failed. All kinds of fillers have been used with one exception and that is what I am planning to use. We have old boards that have been salvaged and I plan to rip them up into wedge shaped splints. Then they will be glued and driven into the gaps, planed level with the existing floorboards and finished off. Keep in mind that some gaps maybe up to 1/2" wide.

My question is, has anyone done this? What were some of the issues and did this last for years? Any advice and/or comments would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

Featured Answer

eaga

10 years ago

I haven't done this myself, but in our house, with 138 y.o. floors, someone seems to have done what you are proposing, except that it looks like the strips were nailed in. Don't know if glue was used. It was covered by carpet and particleboard when we purchased in 2000. We had it uncovered and refinished last winter. Some of the wood strips were broken or missing when we had the floors uncovered, but since they were refinished I haven't noticed any more breakage. I would have liked to have had the floor guy take a shot at replacing the strips that were missing, but he didn't want to. He didn't have experience with it and didn't want to practice on my floor.

Yes the floor moves as the seasons change (we have 'winter creaks' and 'summer creaks'), but not by 1/2".

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (11)

User
10 years ago
And what will you do when summer humidity comes and forces the wood out of the joints? Wood expands and contracts and the only way to stop that is to perfectly maintain temperature and humidity. In other words, it can't be stopped except inside a museum. In real life, old homes have gaps between their floor boards. It's part of why people like old homes.
gregmills_gw
10 years ago
Woods going to expand and contract. But it wont close a 1/2 gap.
Ripping a board down will be just fine. When the planks gap out that much first thing i would do is clean the gap as much as possible. Im sure the inside edges are caked with gunk. Clean that well, glue in your wedge pieces, and finish away.

Are you refinishing the entire floor? Or just plan on finishing the wedge pieces? Its hard to tell but my guess is the exsisting finish looks like a varnish. With that in mind you cant put your typical polyurethane over varnish or shellac. It doesnt adhere properly and will just flake off. So you can find varnish still and i would use that if youre not up to the task to sand down to bare wood.

If you watch This Old House they did a show where they put pieces of rope between the planks. Looked ok. Not a fan personally but its another idea. Being the house is as old as it is you cant really go wrong looks wise.

Good luck!
Related Discussions
One year old well needs priming
Q
Comments (3)
Somewhere you have an air leak on the intake side of the pump. Every connection on the intake side of the system is a possible source for the air leak, allowing the water to move back into the well and fill the pipe with air. If you use a pressure tank and the system is kept pressurized when off, you would find these weak connections when the pump turns off because they would then be under pressure instead of suction and water would start leaking. I've had more experience than I want with this and the difficulty of sealing a connection that just doesn't want to seal, and you never realize it is leaking except when under pressure with the pump off--it just isn't a big enough leak to put visible bubbles in the water, but at 40 or 50 psi, it starts dripping. Check each connection carefully to make sure it is sealed, working back towards the well. If you have any connections where the pipe slides over a fitting and is held in place with a hose clamp, loosen the clamp, warm the plastic pipe with a butane torch until slightly soft, then put the hose clamp back in place and tighten, and make sure you have a 2nd hose clamp on there also. Follow your way back to the well. It sounds like the pipe coming out of the well runs horizontal, but it will be vertical in the well. Check the elbow where this happens and make sure the connections on each side of the elbow are good. Then pull the pipe in the well. It could be damaged or there could be another foot valve at the bottom of the well which isn't seating due to sand/sediment, and if you have been pumping some sand in the water, the pump impellers could have some damage that prevents the pump from self-priming when turned on. A 1 hp pump can move a lot of water, depending on the size of the well casing and replenishment rate of the water, you could be stirring up sand in the well when the pump is running and the sand has accumulated on the foot valve seals enough to prevent them from fully closing. Finally, if your pump is located above ground level and the system isn't pressurized, you could be having the water leak off on the outlet side of the pump when it is off with air moving back up the lines to the pump and filling it with air. If the rest of the intake was still filled with water, the pump should self-prime, but again if there has been sand going through with the water, the suction could be compromised enough that the pump will just no longer prime itself.
...See More
Is there any floor coating meant to fill expansion joints?
Q
Comments (3)
if you go tile, you need a good sub surface that will account for the expansion/contraction. other wise the tile will just crack. the shows always use some orange stuff they roll out then put the tile on it. you can use concrete patch to fill the joints, but don't think for a minute that it will never crack. usually after the first year it has let go.
...See More
Bad to install a dehumidifyer in 200-year old house?
Q
Comments (3)
I am in upstae NY as well, with a 160 y.o. center hall Greek Revival - 2 story - building w/o any insulation, so, I can relate! My cellar has two areas, one with turn-of-the-century (the last one!) thin poured concrete, and the other part with just dirt. I'm not sure you need to dehumidify the entire house (or how you would do that short of installing a/c.) But you can run dehus in the basement. I do, during the warm months. But you can also improve the moisture issue in another way: by installing a vapor barrier under the floor (if you're going to poured concrete) or just laying it down on the surface of the dirt sections. No, this will do nothing for radon (though probably will retard it some, but not enough to be a satisfactory, or safe, radon reduction technique). You easily install insulation before you repair the slate, as well. But I'd wait til late fall when the bats have departed for the winter. I have been scheming to get radiant heating in my house for years, as I think it's the nuts. We heat entirely with wood and pellet burners, now. However, I have concluded that it would be unsuccessful because my floors are about 1 1/2 inches thick and I have no possiblity of insulating my walls so the demand would be heavy and the thermal transmission rate slow. Plus my flooring (though completely accessible in the cellar) is made of very wide (up to 20" wide) t&g old-growth pine, and I think it would not react well with radiant heat. I do plan to use radiant in parts of the house where I still have tamped-earth (dirt) floors, or rather no floor, when I incorpaorate them in the reno. However, to your original question, I doubt you could injure your house with using dehus in the cellar compared to the dryness of a heated winter. By the way the base of your foundation is also likely to be 'way thicker than two feet. Mine is probably approaching 3 to 4; the inside is fairly smooth and regular, but the outside stones stick out quite deeply, and in an irregular way, into surrounding the soil. Instead of painting the inside of your celler, you might find white washing an acceptable alternative and one the would not require more than a vacuuming and loose brushing of whatever is there to prepare the surface. It is the traditional wall "paint" and does well on dampish stones, though it's rather short-lasting compared to paint, only lasting maybe 3 or 4 years, before it needs recoating. HTH, Molly~
...See More
Will you buy an 200-Year old property for rental?
Q
Comments (10)
Wow... The youngest 2- or 3-family rental property for sale right now in my area is 150 years old, so 200 years sounds normal to me for this sort of thing! Making the call on how much of a risk 200 years is has to do with what's been renovated when, and where you are: If the town was first settled 200 years ago, the builders could have done anything. Other places were built up and had some common building standards by that time. Whatever you do, DON'T buy it without having inspections and at least looking inside first. The basement will tell you a lot: the condition of the foundation (is the field stone still square?), and the stability of the sills... take along a pocket knife or screw driver and stab a sill or load-bearing floor beam. If it crumbles or feels like popcorn instead of wood, you are likely looking at some very major structural work. The basement and the attic will also tell you about water damage, whether the electric was updated since knob-and-tube wiring, and whether the house has any insulation to speak of (no insulation or horse-hair plaster makes for higher heating bills). I'd find a good inspector with experience in older houses, and make any offer contingent upon that checking out to your satisfation. Good luck!
...See More
glennsfc
10 years ago
Saw this done by a farmhouse owner and it looked OK. But, why would you want to do this in the first place? If it is more than simply cosmetic, such as reducing airflow from below, there are other ways to do that. If 'stuff' collecting in the cracks bothers your daughter, then any high suction vacuum cleaner with a crevice attachment can suck all that out in no time flat.
lazy_gardens
10 years ago
Another period-correct filling is oakum ... and it has the compressibility that wood strips don't have.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202274121#product_description

Or rope, stained to match

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,1631562,00.html

OR - this is really radical ... the flexible gap-filler sold for the purpose
http://floormechanics.com/bona_pacific_filler_1_gallon-AF0001830-1.php
joeurda
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks for all of the comments.

We have pulled up some of the boards over a crawl space to up-date the plumbing. I'm thinking that if the boards had moved due to shrinkage and swelling, they would have been split at the nails or the nails would have been loose. None of this happend. These boards were so tightly nailed that some were broken as we tried to get them out. Keep in mind that we are in central NYS and the humidity does not get up there too high.

I've cut a bunch of different sized splints and have tried them out and I think it's going to work. The spaces do have to be cleaned out as they are filled with all kinds of dirt, fur and anything else from nearly 200 years of use.

I'll be posting progressive photos so you can see how the project is going.

Thanks again.

Joe

This post was edited by joeurda on Tue, Feb 4, 14 at 13:51
Acadiafun
10 years ago
I have seen on the internet where they have used rope to fill gaps. The rope is first measured by placing it in the gap to make sure it fits. Then it is taken out, stained and placed in the gap. Final step is the polyurethane. Looked beautiful in the videos.
joeurda
Original Author
10 years ago
I've been working on my daughter's dining room floors for about a week now and here is what I'm doing. There are 4 videos showing the steps I've taken to this point. They're not professional, but you can get an idea as to what it takes to get the job done. It's time consuming, but will be worth the effort.

Video 1 of 4 shows how I cleaned out nearly 200 years of dirt, fur and other junk. No gold dust yet.

Here is a link that might be useful: 1 of 4 Cleaning out the joints
joeurda
Original Author
10 years ago
Step 2 of 4 showing how I set in the splints in the joints.

Some of the joints vary in width, so I would have to use different sized splints.

Here is a link that might be useful: 2 of 4 - Setting in the splints
joeurda
Original Author
10 years ago
Step 3 of 4, hammering in the splints.

Some of the splints might get bashed in a bit, but not to worry. After leveling them off and sanding they are look great.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hammering in the splints.
joeurda
Original Author
10 years ago
Step 4 of 4 - Trimming off the splints. I tried different ways to take off the excess splint material and found that scribing the edges with my multi tool and then knocking them off with the hammer or chisel worked the best. Flushed them down to the level of the floorboards with a sander.

This is not the final video. Sanding them down, staining and sealing videos will follow.

Here is a link that might be useful: Trimming off the splints.

200 year old floor joints need filling

eaga

Comments (11)

User

gregmills_gw

Related Discussions

glennsfc

lazy_gardens

joeurda
Original Author

Acadiafun

joeurda
Original Author

joeurda
Original Author

joeurda
Original Author

joeurda
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

200 year old floor joints need filling

eaga

Comments (11)

User

gregmills_gw

Related Discussions

glennsfc

lazy_gardens

joeurdaOriginal Author

Acadiafun

joeurdaOriginal Author

joeurdaOriginal Author

joeurdaOriginal Author

joeurdaOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

joeurda
Original Author

joeurda
Original Author

joeurda
Original Author

joeurda
Original Author

joeurda
Original Author