@millworkman Yea, I hear that. From my perspective a build is "cheaper", even if it costs more, because I get what I want and nothing more, nothing less. There are houses in the area I am looking for less than $1mm, but they probably need $50k-$100k of work, and it's still not what I want. I don't want a 30 year old roof/foundation/electrical/insulation... I don't want wood shingles or anything fancy. What I want is simple, or used to be thought of as simple...

Thanks for you candor.

@User As I mentioned, I have a home of the type you seem to be asking about. It is brand new. I had the same reasoning as you as far as not wanting to be in a home that has older infrastructure, since going forward there would be costly replacements and nasty surprises.

My home is basic; the same builder builds for H4H and wealthy buyers, using the same concepts. The materials are more expensive, and the designs are more roomy and sophisticated if you have $$$, but the energy efficiencies are the same.

Keep in mind, if you're not paying for utilities for heating and cooling (i.e. via solar), you can afford a bit more mortgage. Around here, it's several hundred dollars a month more in your pocket. This would be forward-looking, not backward looking like so many current builds. So, reflect that in your calculations: NY might very well have advantaged alternative energy features, especially with new legislation in DC.

I'm shuddering that posters are so focused on acrylic bathtub surrounds as making a home sale viable, while ignoring alternative energies. IMO ignoring those will be a much bigger drag on a re-sale price than an acrylic bath surround, and will date the home VERY quickly. Alternative energies can be an expensive retro-fit. Homes will need power capacity plus infrastructure to re-charge cars in garages, all kinds of stuff, in no time at all.

My home would be more expensive to build now than pre-COVID (it was finished right before), but it's still much less expensive than pre-owned homes in this area. Actually, it's less than area rentals. All electric, and I pay for the meter only, since I'm netZero. No HOA fees, which has also put many homes out of reach.

I believe you can get a custom roof incorporating rails for solar panels at maybe less than a regular roof. IIRC, that's what I have (I wasn't too focused on roofs when I was having my home built).

I'm with you that what you want broadly is do-able. I don't know about $400k in LI—does that have to include the lot?—but you could truck it in from another state? So, you might have to make a few more compromises in your ideas. But I would definitely look at alternative energies to keep your monthly bills down and perhaps be able to add to a loan payment and get you a bit more than $400k total.

By compromises, you might have to pare down your desired square footage a bit, or not dream about a kitchen that will accommodate every pan you currently own.

Also, you might be surprised at the cost of laying a slab foundation, preparing your lot, running pipes to the sewer outlet, etc. My foundation is helical piers. Are those permitted in NY? They're used for lighthouses and bridges, and are very cost effective: might save you some money. No worry about slabs cracking in freeze/thaw cycles, and no water in the basement.

At any rate, keep focusing on the big stuff (no distractions on tub surrounds as factors in home re-sales, 'cos that's old paradigm), and investigate cutting edge solutions that trim down prices into the range of affordability.

Haha! The alternative energy features that people seem to think are unaffordable, actually made my house more budget-friendly than more expensive. I twice turned down free homes because the utilities would cost too much and would have no cap. Two years in, utilities in those homes were more than my mortgage. Smirk.

So, it's paradoxical. NOW and FUTURE materials may suit your overall budget than "old paradigm".

Heck, find out how Habitat for Humanity builds in your area, and you might get some ideas to meet your goals. Around here, they're very "old paradigm" in their thinking, and that might be true for your area, too (they're now selling their homes and not donating them, too), but if you look in other districts, you might learn something useful.

Good luck!

Forgot. I see a list of items ^^^^ that would have to be left out of a basic build as compromises. I'm not sure what's wrong with "builder-grade", either, if the goal is affordability. Somehow, "builder-grade" has become "unacceptable".

Pre Covid the building costs were allegedly $200-$300/sq ft. and I appreciate there is inflation currently, but I think I should be able to build for $225/sq ft.

No. Precovid, prices on Long Island started at around $350 and went up from there. Sorry but you're living in a dream world if you think you'll be able to build a house for that money on Long Island. Have you seen what prices are going for resales? Building ALWAYS costs MORE.

However, I did get a quote from a company in Cutchogue that does Pole Barns for about $125 sq ft for the raw insulated shell, roof, slab foundation, windows, doors and plumbing roughing. What should the interior cost?

Another $200-$300/square foot. If a pole barn house on Long Island would even be allowed to be built.

Oh and I grew up on Long Island and only moved away 3 years ago. Still have lots of family on Long Island and my DH's kids just purchased a resale house.

I'm shuddering that posters are so focused on acrylic bathtub surrounds as making a home sale viable, while ignoring alternative energies. IMO ignoring those will be a much bigger drag on a re-sale price than an acrylic bath surround, and will date the home VERY quickly. Alternative energies can be an expensive retro-fit. Homes will need power capacity plus infrastructure to re-charge cars in garages, all kinds of stuff, in no time at all.

First nothing wrong with acrylic bathtubs or showers. Nothing wrong with formica, sheet vinyl, or builder grade, etc.

I highly believe in alternative energy and building a house that takes advantage of passive solar heating/cooling. I did both with my house in FL. I positioned the house for the best passive solar heating/cooling and I put in solar. Guess what? Solar is still a heck of a lot more expensive to put in than more conventional methods of energizing a house. Even with rebates. We're talking almost mid 5 figures versus 4 figures.

Every situation is different. And building is local.

Our townhouse is in a high crime city: it's hard to sell a house that isn't in a gated comuunity. So the HOA, far from being a detriment, is a big positive.

Alternative energy is fine, but it doesn't apply everywhere. Certainly good insulation is always important. In a high-crime area, multi-point locks and good security systems are key.

Appraisability is less important if you're paying cash, which also has many cost-saving advantages.

@cpartist

Solar is still a heck of a lot more expensive to put in than more conventional methods of energizing a house. Even with rebates. We're talking almost mid 5 figures versus 4 figures.

A few things:

1. When doing the math for solar versus conventional energy costs in a home, you have to ADD the cost per month. Then you have to ADD the increase in cost for fossil fuels, for which there is no upper limit. Add servicing, and furnace replacement. Also include the power to re-charge car batteries, since you won't have solar to offset that cost. The life of a solar panel is 30 years.

2. It's unclear what the future will hold in terms of fossil fuel availability.

4. Solar is <$30k installed, depending on the size of the installation. There's a 26% federal tax credit for solar and incentives from the State of NY. If you're calculating cost of energy, these costs would be weighed against ALL the costs of a fossil fuel system.

5. The monthly cost of a home with traditional energy system, including the fossil fuels, is already more than the monthly payment for a home with solar.

And, consider what happens if you want to sell a fossil-fueled home: you will be selling a dinosaur. This is not going to get top dollar. That paradigm is GONE, in the same way gas cars have a very limited future.

@latifolia

Our townhouse is in a high crime city: it's hard to sell a house that isn't in a gated comuunity. So the HOA, far from being a detriment, is a big positive.

In speaking of housing costs, HOA fees need to be factored in when calculating housing budget. (This has nothing to do with advantage or disadvantage of HOA's.) Around here, incidentally, HOA fees per month can be higher than the mortgage. Heating oil can be higher than the mortgage, too.

@tangerinedoor Solar works for some people, but is not always a possibility. In heavily wooded northern climates it's pointless. Geothermal can work.

Financing is only one part of a housing build. If you're looking at environmental impact, then choosing renewable materials like wood, wool (insulation), straw, stone and glass is a better choice than vinyl, acrylic and materials made from the same fossil fuels you're saving. Just sayin'.

Do you own the land?

wow, I'm reading this from my home on Eastern Long Island and laughing. You're talking about building a tiny home in one of the most expensive areas of the country, if not the world. Unless you're considering buying land west of the Shinnecock Canal, and nowhere near the water, you aren't going to be able to build a garage for $400K. And even then it's iffy. A quick Google search came up with one lot in Cutchogue for $200K, which has already sold and is on the main road.

Getting a permit is an expensive and extremely lengthy process unless you're Joe Farrell; the towns are overwhelmed with applications from multi-millionaires and billionaires, and they are woefully understaffed. Builders don't even want to build 4,000 square foot homes; most are over 8,000 square feet. The 4,000 square foot home next door just sold to a developer who's building a 10,000 square foot home which he has listed (on spec) for almost $14 million. Neighbors will not appreciate your plopping a tiny pre-fab home on their block which will devalue their property.

We built our home here over 30 years ago and paid about $400,000 and the property values have only gone up since then. They aren't making any more land out here, and there are still many people with "stupid money" that will bid it up ad infinitum.

You need to find a more cost-effective area to build your home.

@User Why is it not possible in the east end of long island? The materials are the same. The drawings are up to code. There are a ton of houses out here that are pieces of junk with shoddier work that sell for more money than I am planning to spend.

Additionally, if I looked in less expensive areas like Mastic, Shirley or Hampton Bays I could find what I want in my price range.

The labor costs I understand, but if the labor here costs 100% more than rural areas, or even 50% more than Mastic the math does not add up to being over $400 sq ft.?

The only thing I can deduce is that the builder has determined that their profit and overhead must be a certain amount, which is way too high...

@Diana Bier Interiors, LLC None of that math adds up. Their are tons of houses in East Hampton Springs that cost well below $1mm as well as on the North Fork. I can buy the land that I want for $400k. I should be able to build a home for $400k or less. Please explain to me why BUILDING a home in Riverhead would cost substantially less than say Sag Harbor?

Because they can charge more and they will. Everything costs more in EH, a cup of coffee is almost double, supply and demand Plain and simple, been that way for as long as I know. And like I mentioned I have been in construction and construction supply for 40 years. There has to be a reason that there is the "Trade Parade" every morning backing up on Sunrise Hgwy for miles just to get to the Hamptons and the bigger money. The North Fork is the same except not quite as high and more local trades. It is not a fallacy, but fact. Permits are a pain in the a**, and last I knew you could not get a CO to live in a converted pole barn. Especially if it is a Morton Bldg from the guy on 48 in Cutchogue.

"Their are tons of houses in East Hampton Springs that cost well below $1mm as well as on the North Fork."

True, BUT New construction ALWAYS costs more than existing, even all builder grade and tract homes. You can argue all you want but it is not happening, I know of plenty of people who felt they were going to reinvent the when and pulled out long before pulling the trigger when they realized if was a pipe dream..

IMO this is a discussion for you and your bank not a bunch of strangers on the internet. Your idea of a simple home and any of ours can be a big difference . IMO if you are paying 400K for th eland then of course the house will cost more than the lot. Home costs vary widely across the country and that is what drives the bus the more people want a certain area the higher the house prices has always been so and will always be so. I grew up in very expensive area but our vacation home was a frame cabin at the lake a sleeping loft and one outside toilet now that lake has million dollar homes for cabins its all about location.

@User - There are a lot of things that go into costing a home and most builders struggle with costs that deviate from the norm, so I would take some of the comments on costs near the norms with a grain of salt.

I would look at one of the home kits. Some lumber yards, especially those with rural appeal, will put together home kits. These kits are designed to meet specific needs and efficient/affordable designs are one of the more common needs these plans are designed to meet. They basically save by selecting cheaper finishes on the interior and standard window sizes along with some sensible engineering.

My favorite is the Cape May by 84 Lumber (which is available in New York). The lumber package for this is still under $100,000. If you ask at 84 Lumber they will usually have a list of contractors who have some experience with constructing the home and can help connect you with someone who might be able to meet your goals.

https://www.84lumber.com/projects-plans/home-plans/1-12-story/cape-may/

I don't know much about the specifics of eastern Long Island, it looks like it's not all the Hamptons and even if you wanted to live in a trailer park or little rancher it looks like you could in the Riverhead, Aquebogue area. So maybe it would be a little more flexible what you could get away with building in that area.

But generally this reminds me of the circular conversations I used to have with my mother who was born where I live now but spent most of her life in an isolated, rural, low-cost-of-living area (but nonetheless had a healthy income).

Conversation One:

Mom: "Why are you looking in that neighborhood? Rittenhouse Square is a nicer neighborhood"

Me: "Because what I want would cost $XX in Rittenhouse Square"

Mom: "That's ridiculous, nobody pays that for an apartment"

Me: "They do".

Mom: "Well you just need to find something that doesn't cost That much"

Me: "Which is why I am looking where I am and not there"

Mom: "Well it's not as nice as Rittenhouse Square, I don't know why you don't look there"

Conversation Two:

Mom: "You're busy, you should think about getting a cleaning lady"

Me: "I can't afford a cleaning lady"

Mom: "That's nonsense, I pay my cleaning lady $X. And you don't need one to do the same things as mine does, you just need someone to come in for a few hours and do____"

Me: "I know people who have that and they pay $XX and they are in and out and don't do a great job"

Mom: "That's ridiculous, nobody pays a cleaning lady $XX. I'll come and be a cleaning lady for $XX"

Me: "That's what it costs. $X here is poverty wages."

Mom: "Why can I only pay $X?"

Me: "Your cleaning lady bought her house for $20,000. Her car is from 1968. And technically she is impoverished. People have to be able to afford to live Here if they are going to work Here. Rent is $XXX"

Mom: "That's ridiculous that someone has to pay so much rent".

And so on and so forth and so on.

1. When doing the math for solar versus conventional energy costs in a home, you have to ADD the cost per month. Then you have to ADD the increase in cost for fossil fuels, for which there is no upper limit. Add servicing, and furnace replacement. Also include the power to re-charge car batteries, since you won't have solar to offset that cost. The life of a solar panel is 30 years.

Yes and most people do not live in their house for 30 years! The average is 7. So there is no cost benefit to most people if they're only staying in their house for 7 years. We did it to have a backup if we lose power and because it's the right thing for the environment. We're seniors and probably will never actually see the cost benefit but are happy that are solar is powering our house now and if we need it in a storm.

Additionally, if I looked in less expensive areas like Mastic, Shirley or Hampton Bays I could find what I want in my price range.

Not a chance even in Hampton Bays.

Maybe in Mastic or Shirley. That's a big maybe. And a big maybe in in Riverhead too now that the area is starting to transform.

You really are dreaming and not being realistic, You can argue with us all you want but it's not going to get you a $400k house built in eastern LI.

And as Millworkman said, the trades will go to the better areas because they can charge more. And guess what? That's their right too. They are allowed to make a profit even if you don't like it.

Not sure you could even buy a pre-fab ADU for that amount of money, never mind build a cabin/cottage from scratch. Labor is not cheap. Land is not cheap, especially on Long Island! Even if you picked the least expensive materials and didn't hire a GC (essentially, you would be the GC and hire your own subs), I don't think it can be done in your market.

Can you separate the costs for foundation/framing/exterior/windows/doors/roof/hvac/electrical/plumbing from costs for interior finishes/trim/fixtures/drywall/flooring/paint? You could do the latter yourself, if you have the time, physical ability and interest, and long time limits for any permits needed for interior.

Sorry, I am not an expert - just a DIYer who is not in NY. (On occasions, an involuntary DIYer because it’s hard to find someone to work on my projects. The contractors have better offers. That’s why you have trouble negotiating with them.)

The thing about DIY on the interior, or leaving out X on the interior until later, a lot of that is going to depend on what is allowable by your permitting process. Where I live you don't necessarily have to have the finished floor everywhere or have anything more than a rudimentary kitchen, you could have a painted plywood countertop attached to the wall with a sink in it and a freestanding fridge and stove, and if the room has a window, no range hood, and you'd be good.

Ten miles from here I know people who have not gotten certificate of occupancy or a permit signed off on because they had a single broken light fixture, or a room that was supposed to get carpet that didn't have it yet, or a kitchen faucet that the inspector did not like way the handle turned. A lot will depend upon your location.

If the OP cannot find a builder to give him what he wants at a fair price because they're all too greedy and backward thinking, he should be his own contractor and show the so-called pros how it's done. Easy peasy.

I clicked on his profile and it has ”page not found”. I think Elliott has left the building (that he can’t afford to build).

Did not want to hear that his dream was a pipe dream.

Aww poor boy. Took his toy hammer and left.

Even IF a home could be built here for $400k, it’s difficult to afford to live here. Many of the restaurants, retail stores and service businesses can’t find enough workers because they can’t find an affordable place to live. EVERYTHING is more expensive here, from food to gasoline to insurance to clothing to utilities to taxes…I can go on and on. Why is that? Because a huge percentage of the (mostly) second homeowners are very wealthy and they pay whatever the market will bear without giving it a second thought.
So why is it more expensive to build a home in Sag Harbor than in Riverhead? Because the builders know that the demand is so great that the same materials can be marked up to the sky and the customers just pay it. You can’t do that in Riverhead, it’s a different clientele.

@cpartist

.......most people do not live in their house for 30 years! The average is 7. So there is no cost benefit to most people if they're only staying in their house for 7 years.

Sell your house in 7 years, with a middle-aged furnace that requires fuel that's not available..... Resale value on that? Hmmm....versus turnkey solar-powered with 23 years life left on the system.

@Diana Bier Interiors, LLC, you are so correct. I live in Manorville now after living in Mattituck for 50 plus years.

Well, I think it you come to a forum like this with a single idea you want to get feedback on, and the resounding response is that it can't be done, there's really not much point in hanging around, is there? If $400K is the budget and that's unrealistic, it's not going to turn into $800K, so there's no more productive conversation.

@palimpsest you are correct, but there is a way to accept constructive criticism without taking it personally and getting offended.

It's really fascinating for me to read such discussions about construction costs in other parts of the country. Here in deep South Texas, I'm building a 3000 sq ft home, and while it's turning out to be a bit over budget, it's still going to be under $150/sq ft. Moreover, by local standards, it's considered to be a high-end home. I'm on a cost-plus contract, so I know exactly how much everything is costing, so overall I can estimate that materials and supplies are about $65/sq ft, labor about the same at $65/sq ft, and contractor fee is around $20/sq ft. Permits and other paperwork (survey, etc) are negligible.

I would think that material costs should be pretty similar around the country, but suppose we increase it to $80/sq ft. Then, also suppose we increase the contractor mark-up to 25%, so then to get to a total cost of $300/sq ft, labor costs should be around $160/sq ft, i.e. more than double compared to around here. Does that sound right?

Of course, building in NY has additional expenses compared to TX - you would want a basement probably, maybe insulation would be more expensive. You would also need a furnace. On the other hand, exterior finishes could be less expensive - shingle roof rather than a tile roof and vinyl siding vs stone and stucco, so that maybe that would balance out some of the additional expenses.

It may get you closer if you pay everybody in cash.

Aww poor boy. Took his toy hammer and left.

lol

Elliot has left the building. He closed up his page and decided the truth was not what he wanted to hear. (can you imagine being his GC or Architect??? holy hannah)

So please, lets put this stupid post to rest.

"I would think that material costs should be pretty similar around the country"

Not. Even. Close.

I have an older book on industry data and the pricing is out of date, but it had a section of "Geographic Multipliers" where, if the national average cost of labor or materials is "1" you can look up by zipcode how pricing will vary by location. I know that greater NYC had a multiplier of 1.6 for labor and it was over one for materials.

(Whereas the remote area I grew up in was something like 0.75 for labor but slightly over 1 for materials because of getting them there).

The material costs for single family homes are actually pretty consistent nationwide. The various construction cost indexes are typically used for commercial construction, as their purpose is national bidding, so they struggle with single family homes. The largest difference is the contribution of construction materials versus finish materials to the overall cost of the structure. A significant amount of the entire cost of a home comes from nationally or regionally priced products (e.g. faucets, toilets, carpet, tile, cabinets, etc.)

The end result is a fairly small price difference in materials between different regions for single family homes, even when there is a fairly high construction cost index difference.

---------

On an interesting side note... The difference in regional building costs of single family homes is largely unexplainable. In the U.S. some of the markets with the cheapest single family home construction costs have relatively high per capita & median household incomes as well as higher living wages.

Law of supply and demand explains a lot of things

"Law of supply and demand"

If I want or need it, it is expensive.

@millworkman Of course prices for materials are different, but not by a factor of 2 or 3 as they are for overall construction costs. Some items that are made locally have an embedded labor cost - for example, custom cabinets.

Also the labor cost differentials may require the use of more expensive materials - for example, here labor is cheap and all roofs are stick built. In a higher labor cost area, trusses need to be ordered, which is of course much more expensive than standard framing lumber. Being produced locally, they will also have a labor cost embedded in their price.

I get you spec quick looking at HD here on LI versus Dallas. 3/4" T&G OSB L.I. 17.95 / Dallas 15.65 and Timberline Roofing L.I. 43.47 bndl and Dallas $34.47. Small sample but 20% OSB & 25% on Timberline Shingles, both commodities. Multiple it out with specialties and the entire material package I bet would 30-35% more minimum, for the package as a whole. Our area has huge freight as it needs to come thru NYC to get to Long Island.

@millworkman said, "Multiple it out with specialties and the entire material package I bet would 30-35% more minimum, for the package as a whole."

No.. It would not be. Yes, the prices of building materials changes by region, but building materials are only a portion of the materials cost of a home. Toilets, nationally available windows, faucets, tubs, tile, etc. are the same price in both stores. The materials multiplier for NYC is 1.2 - 1.25 depending on the index you are using, but fixtures and finish materials are not included in indices. Those are usually nationally priced items, sometimes regionally priced, but still not nearly as different. In the end, the difference actually becomes about 10% - 12% because of the weight of nationally priced materials on the overall cost of construction.

Unless you are familiar with the economics of a specific region, you really can't understand the cost structure. @millworkman knows this local LI market, as do I, both of us having lived here for most of our lives. The East End of LI is a unicorn, prices are out of control, due to the limited supply and outrageous demand of uber-wealthy homeowners.

Comparing items nationally available in stores is not really helpful, since builders do not disclose the price of every item that goes into a custom build, which is the norm here (no tract housing). They are free to mark up over retail, and the client is none the wiser, and doesn't really care. "Bottom line" pricing for the entire project is what they care about--these people don't go into the weeds pricing out each piece of lumber or window.

As millworkman stated, the price of getting supplies and labor out to the east end needs to include the travel time from the western suburbs and NYC. Most of the laborers cannot afford to live here, and must commute. Believe it or not, it can take 3 or 4 hours at 5:00 AM to get out here, in bumper to bumper traffic, and another 3 or 4 hours to get home. There's a huge cost to this, and no one does it unless it's worth their while. Ka-ching, ka-ching.

@millworkman: those OSB prices are more like 1/2”; 23/32 is around $30. 🙂

You're right, I looked up both and meant to call it 23/32 T&G as that is 34.48 here and was like 4 less in Dallas.

As a cost accountant, I can assure you that you don't need to live in an area to understand how costing works. In fact, that is the entire job description.

---

I could go into some detail but instead I will simply refute the materials cost assertion thus... kit homes, such as the 84 Lumber, kit I mentioned above are available for comparable prices everywhere they are sold. Those people in New York essentially the same thing as people in West Virginia (within 5%)...so the difference in construction costs can't be driven by materials.

This is not to say the OP could do it. It is to say that, for under $100,000 the OP could get

Blueprints • Gutters and downspouts • Drywall and finishing materials • Treated sill plates • Insulated windows • Interior trim • Floor joists • Exterior trim • Fasteners and adhesives • 3/4" plywood or OSB floor • Vinyl siding • Kitchen cabinets • Wall studs • Hardboard / Fiber Cement siding • Bathroom vanities • OSB wall sheathing • Insulated exterior doors • Engineered roof trusses • Interior doors • Post-formed laminated countertops • OSB roof sheathing • R-19 wall insulation • Cultured marble vanity top • Roofing felt • R-30 ceiling insulation • Fiberglass roofing shingles • Roof ventilation.

The OP would have to get permits, site work, foundation, any added brick or stonework, plumbing, appliances, any steel beams or columns, HVAC, finish flooring, electric and pay labor costs with the remaining $300,000. Whether or not that is something that can be done in their location is a different question, but the reason they can't achieve that isn't because of massive material cost differences, because they are just not there.

My father, not known for being circumspect had a saying. Basically in this case he'd say the OP was p***ing into the wind.

Booty bums …i feel sad for you that you don’t recognize a humorous comment…and have to say your comment was nasty and mean spirited🤷🏼‍♀️…and totally wrong in this case…

Well like I said, I don't think there was much point in the OP staying, because what he wanted to do was impossible. And he didn't have a melt down and tell everyone to GFT and he was leaving, he just quietly left.