Thank you, everybody. @herbflavor I really appreciate you thinking this through. -The fridge is a counter depth, so I think it may be a little wider than a standard fridge. -Yes, I do want the island to operate as part of the kitchen. I'm personally not a fan of diag cut countertops and cabinets (there is an upper diag cabinet in this layout, but that is going to be switched out) -I'm intrigued by the idea of putting the coffee bar on that north wall, but I worry about this looking like one large long wall kitchen as opposed to keeping it in the "center" of the house. There's also the question of what I'd do with the rest of that long south wall. @biondanonima (Zone 7a Hudson Valley) -Yes, there will be a mini-fridge / wine fridge in the bar. No running water though to keep costs down. It is a little annoying to walk to other sink to get water for coffee, but for me not a dealbreaker. Adding snacks to that is a great idea! The first response to this post got my heart beating and I almost texted my designer to call the whole thing off. (I appreciate truthful and frank comments that appear on houzz.) Feeling a little better now. This may not be the most ideal set up, but it will meet our family's needs better than the current open nothingness. Let's call it "a creative solution?" Also I think @herbflavor is correct that just updating the surfaces will make the entire kitchen feel better. We plan to move in the next 3-4 years, so I'm hoping this won't be SO offensive to a buyer that it's a dealbreaker.

You could improve the offset by going to a single bowl sink Agree. I'd also flip-flop the sink and the dishwasher, the goal being to bring the dishwasher closer to the refrigerator. You're going to store glassware in the cabinet to the left of the refrigerator ... and you want your glassware to be easy /quick to put away (and you want that for both your glassware and your silverware). That prep sink next to the fridge is basically useless because there's not enough room on either side and it leaves you with not enough room for setting down groceries next to the fridge too. I think the intention is that that sink is a bar sink ... but I'd get rid of it; it's a rather frivolous item that won't get much use. I'd expect groceries would sit on the island for "put away". No one needs to enter the work zone just to get a glass of water/wine/soda/etc. or to grab a cup of coffee. Wouldn't you be able to get water through the refrigerator? The sink isn't necessary for wine, soda, etc. And don't most people have Keurig-type coffee makers with water tubs on the side ... so that only needs filling every week or so? I'd rather have the storage than this sink ... it'd be a great place to store extra canned drinks. Actualy, I'd rather have a trash can /recycling ... for bottle tops, aluminum cans, etc. Hunt, the countertop is river white granite My favorite. Other thoughts ... much of it about duplicate items: - You're looking at putting in an oversized refrigerator and TWO under-counter refrigerators? Do you really need that much refrigeration? You wouldn't store plates of meat for the grill outdoors, and you have a convenient drink station inside. - I'd lose the outdoor refrigerator ... and put in a bank of outdoor storage drawers for BBQ items: outdoor spatulas, tongs, second-rate hot mitts. My husband is really into grilling, and he has SO MANY BBQ accessories; seriously, we have an old baker's rack in the pantry, and it is FULL of various BBQ things ... I'd love if he could store all that stuff outside by the grill. Well, I'd actually love it if he'd edit a bit, but that's another story. - If you feel the need to serve drinks outside, I'd rather see a short, built-in cabinet sized for a cooler ... this would allow you to set out drinks on ice during parties, and the cabinet would make it a convenient height for everyone. - Similar question: how many eating areas do you have in this house? I can see the breakfast room and the island seating ... with an outdoor grilling area planned, I suspect an outdoor seating area ... and I suspect a house this size has a dining room too. How many dedicated eating areas do you need? I think you're putting in "all the nice things", and some editing would be beneficial. Do you use charcoal (we do 'cause we're a Big Green Egg family), so I'd like to see a spot to store charcoal in this outside grill area. - Leaving grill storage /branching off to another topic: do you have lighting above this outdoor grilling area? It's an oft-neglected detail. My brother didn't put in lights above his grill, so now he wears a head lamp ... like a coal miner. I'd also want an outlet at the top of this area /controlled by an indoor switch ... this would allow you to run a string of decorative lights around the edge of the ceiling. - You have a 3' hinged door leading to the porch ... and literally within reach of it, a sliding glass door. Do you need two ways so close together to reach this small porch? - I'd lose the hinged door ... going from the kitchen to the sliding door is literally one extra step ... this would allow you to extend the outdoor cooking area another 3', giving you space to spread out while cooking /serve outdoors /have a trash can under the cooking area. Also, this hinged door will be difficult to access once you have a table in the breakfast area, especially if a person is seated a the table. - You have a bit of a pinch point between the breakfast room and the island ... it will be problematic if someone is sitting on a barstool and/or in the first chair at the table.

Lots of amazing feedback here, this is so helpful! I attached some pics of our current layout, per your requests. This is an old city house - it definitely wasn't built to accommodate a fridge, dishwasher, much less modern bathroom expectations lol! We love the character and honestly, all of the houses in the area are similar, and many have some very 'creative' modernizing renovations, so I'm not too concerned about non-ideal solutions impacting resale value. @mama goose_gw zn6OH We're hesitant about pushing the kitchen too far into the current dining room - don't really want to mess with some of the original elements in there and it seems a little out of character for an old house like this to have such an open kitchen? We also can't imagine needing so much kitchen space - the size of our current kitchen honestly works great for us, it just doesn't have a dishwasher, and the fridge doesn't fit anywhere. @Karenseb @palimpsest I'm interested in the ideas moving around windows/doors on the left side of the house. We didn't consider altering the exterior, which is all brick, but it does add a lot more flexibility, so we're looking into feasibility/cost of this. @Karenseb you make a really good point about the bar seating - i think just removing the wall between kitchen and dining room would give us the interaction between seating area and working area that we're looking for. probably don't need a secondary seating area.

My small kitchen remodel experience suggests being sure to get frameless cabinets that can be semi-custom; this maximizes interior storage space, and allows you to design beyond standard cabinet/drawer sizes (bigger or smaller, usually in 1/4" increments) to allow the most flexibility in cabinet placement. For example, my base corner cabinet is longer on one arm than in the other, and overall is much smaller than typical, but it still allows me sufficient access to store my rice cooker, extra mixing bowls, and various other things that I don't need frequent access to. Use base drawers instead of base cabinets wherever possible, too. Frameless semi-custom is not necessarily expensive, either. Mine came from a semi-local (about an hour outside the metro area) cabinet maker. Make your cabinet over the fridge 24" deep. Much easier to access and room for sheet & cookie pans, cooling racks, other sundries. I also suggest getting the smallest sink cabinet possible for the minimum size sink that will work for you. Even a 30" sink cabinet, equipped with pullouts, has room for trash, recycling, a compost bin, dishwashing supplies, and cleaning items (and my 28" single basin sink feels huge after my old 2 basin - it is large enough to wash my fridge bins and shelves!) Since you will have a dishwasher, think hard about how you might change your habits - if appropriate- to use a smaller sink than you might be considering. It freed up much needed counter space for me. Likewise, think about how large of a fridge you really need. Most designers default to a 36". I have found that a 30" is quite sufficient for the refrigerator space but I do have a small chest freezer in the basement, since we buy and eat lots of frozen vegetables, fish, and also stock up if we come across an excellent sale on meats/poultry/even cheese. I see your reason for the larger stove, and that probably means that you really do need the larger fridge, too, but I'm just suggesting food for thought. I agree that your table in the kitchen is sufficient for homework etc. Look for more innovative ideas like the stud cabinets, pullout worktop cabinet, toe-kick drawers, narrow pullouts, to maximize storage and accessibility. You are fortunate to have that pantry space already, and you may have other good storage spaces available (basement, garage) so you might not have to design in every possible inch of storage in the kitchen space.