Call BetterHeader please.

Whether steel or engineered wood, in my experience a structural engineer will typically specify in a size that is available either from the steel fabricator or lumber supplier (both on speed dial). Then size the beam based on that. For instance, you could have (3) 1 3/4"x16" deep instead of (1) 3 1/4"x20" deep.

And especially when you want more uncommon depths, like equal to actual 2x lumber (e.g. 9 1/4", 11 1/4"), you have to check with the LVL distributors on availability. Even for billet beams (wider than 1 3/4" to avoid sandwiching) LP SolidStart (defacto manufacturer) says to check with distributor before specifying those sizes. So maybe go back to your engineer.

The people who build custom structural members will provide all the ammunition your engineer needs to fire at inspection, I'm sure.

Get anew contractor how are we supposed to help this is his job. What did the engineer say ? Who provided the permit? We have no info as to size that was advised by engineer .

The permit was approved by king county. I hired Elevation home designs to do the structural drawings and specs for the permit. I had told them before starting all of this that 20” LVLs were not available. My contractor thought he got them on board with using 18” or 16” but when the plans came in they were 20” I’m incredibly frustrated by the situation, time and money wasted.

Bolt a steel flitch plate on an 18"er, and get it approved.

I'd build it on site.

I'm not sure how long Elevation Home Designs has been a corporate entity. In one of the FAQs on their website (www.elevationhd.com) they refer to themselves as "Cornerstone Designs." The text might have been "borrowed" from another company or they might have changed their corporate name. The following excerpt from the same FAQ misrepresents their capabilities, in my opinion:

"Cornerstone Home Designs offers virtually the same services that traditional engineer/architect’s office would provide."

I think you'll be best served to contact a local structural engineer to correct any deficiencies in the structural design.

I have to agree.

They do have a structural engineer who did the design work. So I’m reaching back out to them. Getting ahold of a structural engineer in the first place is a nightmare and I had one come to the house prior to this and I was deterred with working with him.

If you end up needing to find another engineer, you can get a list of licensed WA structural engineers who take small projects here: https://www.seaw.org/. My neighbor was able to find someone through these listings.

@mcarroll16,

Thanks for sharing that website. I wish my state had something similar. It can be difficult to find structural engineers for residential work.

Davia:

Your approach is wrong. You have a math problem. The people at BetterHeader know they have to solve your math problem before they can sell you a solution. I'm willing to bet that if you called them, they would submit a beam to inspection that inspection would approve. Done. No engineer, no frustration, no unnecessary expense.

"no unnecessary expense."

Except for the shipping from NYC to Seattle. Its take 42 hours to drive that trip if you only stop for fuel.

Thanks! I sent their website to my contractor yesterday. I’m waiting to hear back since it’s the weekend. I appreciate it.

20" is a very big beam for residential (assuming 3 1/2" wide). So this must have had a stamped drawing and possible calculation sheet to provide for permitting. Permit review does not do calculations. They may not even look over provided calculations. They just want a professional to take responsibility. So none of this relies on the permit process.

Often, mis- and lack of- communication between multiple consultants happens on projects. It would be easier to count the projects that it doesn't happen on. If the original designer used a structural engineer to size the beam and submitted permit drawings, then that structural engineer can just revise and resubmit for permit. It could probably be just an 8.5x11 revision of just that beam located on the drawings. This is not a big deal, stuff like this happens all the time.

It would be silly to bring on another structural engineer who would have to start from scratch. It would be even sillier to bring on a "plan house of beam builders" 2000 miles away.

Usually you have physical constraints and simplicity of construction to have a certain size beam. Or if it is the only criteria in this case, availability. If you communicated a size, and someone at the design office also agreed like you said, and in writing, then the designer needs to handle this, on their dime.

"It would be even sillier to bring on a "plan house of beam builders" 2000 miles away."

I see what you mean. Why have the guys who have solved this problem literally thousands of times take a look?

Sure, shipping might be a PIA, but that's apparently a lot easier than getting an engineer to take a phone call. They may know someone on the other coast and could make a referral.

Better Header doesn't offer structural engineering services. Their website provides span tables for uniformly loaded beams which a design professional would use in selecting a beam. The problem is if there are point loads involved.

Math may be math, but most states regulate whose math counts when making structural calculations.

Charles:

What part of "Perfect for architects, engineers, designers, developers, costruction" do you not understand please?

I'm no engineer, but I can guarantee that when you properly sandwich a couple A-36 1/4" steel flitch plates between a few LVLs, you can safely peel a couple inches off the depth of the previous LVL specification.

They may let you assemble it in place; a great feature if you've got to get that bad boy down a steep hill without renting a crane.

"You have a well-established record of posts minimizing the value and contribution of structural engineers in residential construction."

Charles, this is demonstrably false. What I have is a track record of advising readers to undertake their projects in the proper order with the proper professionals Too often they mistakenly self-diagnose and foolishly spend money on unnecessary math/engineering. I've seen this first hand. I have not said that's the case here.

Your Betterheader quotes above are clearly CYA boilerplate written by their lawyer.

The objective in this particular thread is to find a proper structural solution to the problem. Davia has expressed her frustration at her lack of getting help from local professional engineers. I have suggested that she start a a different place, hoping she can end up with a solution approved by her local division of inspection.

When I'm being serious, none of my writing is remotely cowboy, although I did have an American Shorthair Silver Tabby cat that went by that name.

Charles:

In my previous thread, I made clear that I was not an engineer, but believed that adding flitch plates to an LVL would allow the depth of the previously specified LVL to be reduced.

Sir, you are an engineer, so you can tell us if I'm right or wrong. Please do so. Thanks.

Joe,

We're not going to size the OP's beam. What we can do is to point them in the right direction. They need a solution that's available locally and certified for the particular application by a credentialed structural design professional.

If he can't find the 20" locally I'm sure he could order it, it might just take some time. Seattle has many lumber yards that carry LVL's.

Charles, nice try at aviodance, but I'm not letting you get away with it. I did not ask you to size the OP's beam. I asked your professional engineering opinion as to whether or not adding a flitch plate to LVLs will allow a reduction in beam depth. Please. For the second time.

Joe, we don't know how many plies the LVL is nor whether it can accommodate a flitch plate which would make it wider. The truth is, we don't know anything about the load or the beam except for its depth. A 20" deep LVL suggests one heck of a load--and probably not a uniform one.

The on site conditions need to be investigated, well, on site, by a credentialed structural designer who can recommend alternatives.

Charles,

Thank you for your help so our structural engineer came back with other options that are still not workable due to the amount of space we are working with between the windows. The 20” LVLs are supposed to be sistered around the current beam and studs but if we have to do 3 18” or 4 16” at 1.75” width we don’t have a enough space. Only 2.5” on either side of the current beam until it meets the window. I hope that makes sense. So now we are falling back on the original idea which was to have a post in the center of the room. In order to have a post do we need a permit to remove the rest of the wall?

So there's an existing beam, and it appears by sandwiching it you are trying to open up the entire wall, say 24' long instead of 12' span. Why can't you just replace the existing beam?

And don't forget, there will be more point loads placed on the bearing points of a longer-spanned beam, so the posts and foundation requirements increase as well.

Look into PSLs, and especially if you want them exposed, Glulams.

We’ve looked into that. It’s 28 feet across the room. It’s cantilever so it extends outside the house in the front and there is a fake at the back of the house. A glulam would be incredibly expensive and then there is still the issue of what to do with the cantilever. And yes if we weren’t having a post in the middle of the room supports outside the house (because there is an overhang) was required on the front and back of the house.

Charles:

It's a "yes" or "no" question. Your avoiding answering tells us all we need to know.