I'm about to get one -- hopefully in the next 6 months or so (waiting on 2 more estimates). After dealing with a 5 day power failure (with a well pump and electric HVAC), I realized if it had happened in the winter, or even while I was away on vacation, I'd be in big trouble. I'm looking at a 14K or 18K Kwh Generac, and getting propane tank(s) to fuel it. My house is about 1600 sq ft, and it will cost me about $20,000 installed.

Roxanna, what size propane tank do you have for your generator?

I have a 9500 W gas/propane generator that I use as a whole house generator. I figured it would come in handy during hurricanes, snowstorms or random outages. Used it once during a power outage nearly 2 years ago and really liked it. Once it’s plugged into the dedicated house receptacle, I flip the main switch in the electrical panel then power is on in the house. No need to run extension cords to anything.

Wow the Generacs are pricey, aren’t they. My total cost for the unit, wiring the panel , and the special generator receptacle was less than $1200 three years ago.

I know this thread is asking about whole house generators but I just want to caution those using portable generators, that they can damage electronics. I lost an expensive TV shortly after Sandy, many years short of its life expectancy. I can’t prove that’s what caused it, but it’s possible. I’ve now got a couple inverter generators, they don’t put out nearly as much power but what they do supply is supposedly clean.

I welcome correction, just going off what I’ve read on the internet and possible personal experience.

I have a 3500 watt generator that cost me $900 in the year 2000 to operate the essentials and runs on gasoline, using about 5 gallons in a 24 hr period. Your question has come up a lot and and some paid $20 grand, installation included.

But I really clocked in to comment on the life span of Solar Panels. Solar panels degrade at the rate of 1% to 2% a year depending on the type of cell used and quality. The average cost to install solar is $2.70 per watt and if you get a lot of sun in virginia the payback or brake even point would take about 8 to 13 years, after that it's money in the bank.

BUT the federal government has a 26% direct tax credit for solar on equipment and installation, so payback would be substantially reduced, and a good deal. Payback on a whole house generator would be never, and if you used gasoline it's only good for 3 to 6 months or a year with an additive. Diesel is an outright mess and said to last 6 months but I've stored and used for 5 years in my tractor without an issue. Propane or natural gas would be the best fuel source for a backup.

I'm not pushing solar, for solar here in Minnesota the lack of sunshine has it's limits but if I can buy the panels and do a DIY I may drop $5K to $10K and do it, but first I need to see if DIY qualifies for the 26% rebate. In the year 2000 the price just for panels was 5 bucks a watt but now it's down to a little over $1 per watt and with 22 years of inflation solar is a steal.

I use surge protectors on expensive electronic equipments, even before getting the generator so they are ok so far. Yes the portable can cause the power fluctuations that can damage delicate equipments. In my wiring setup, the main panel circuit breaker will trip if the generator power exceeds its capacity. Still the generator electricity is not as clean as that from the power company.

We put in a whole house surge protector in after an electrical surge fried some components in our fairly new furniture. I don't remember it being very expensive, but we only paid for the protector itself. My hubby installed it.

Mine is a Generac. I forget the kw, but less than 20. It runs my whole small house. It goes on for four minutes once a week to test it.

We lost power for about six days a few years ago. It was very hot and humid and i decided never again. I love knowing I wont freeze or roast in a power outage.

The electrician put in a whole new electrical panel which was sorely needed. It cost $10,000 . Yes, it is noisy and i would feel funny about the noise if so many neighbors did not also have one. However, I have one neighbor whose generator is outrageously loud. During a power outage I hear theirs more than mine.

Im very happy with it.

We have automatic generators at both homes. We have one at our vacation home that runs on propane and we have a 1000 gallon underground tank. We don't have natural gas in that area- even though we have a Tennessee gas pipeline on our mountain which services NJ and NY - not even PA! But don't get me started on their lawsuits threatening eminent domain.

Ours is next to our home and we barely hear it when we're inside the house unless we walk close to that wall or window. Outside it's not as bad as a chain saw or lawn mower. But you can check for exterior decibel levels. Inside depends a lot on how your house is built and insulated. The generator is contained in a sound reducing casing and looks like an AC unit and it can operate in any weather.

It has a self-check feature - every Wed. at noon it cycles on and runs for 15 minutes as part of a periodic exercise to lubricate the parts and charge the back-up battery.

DH said 2 well know brands are Siemans and Generac. Our PA home is about 3000 sq ft and the unit operates everything. The guy who did ours was a master electrician who owns his own company and also installed new ones at the local hospital. It's isn't a difficult install but make sure you have someone reliable. It took the electrician about 3 hours to install the transfer switch and the generator on a slab.

We installed it 10 years ago after a 4 day power outage and I'm so thankful that we did. The house is in a heavily forested area and we have frequent power outages.

Last year we had a Generac installed at our primary home. We have natural gas here so it's hooked up to the gas line. Both installs cost around $10,000. We aso have whole house surge protectors at both places..

Toronto Vet -- our propane tank is 500 gallons. {Kitchen stove is duel-fuel (propane/electric)}

You might check out this thread where there was some generator discussion recently: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6278325/remember-my-two-day-lake-cabin-power-outage#n=27

We have both solar panels and an automatic generator. Ours is a Kohler. It is noisier than I'd like, but it is an engine running so it's going to make noise. Ours is a 20kw unit, large enough to run the heating system (which is also cooling system) in our house. We have geothermal so the biggest draw is when the pumps start so we needed to accommodate that. Once the pumps are running, the draw is very little. Our unit runs itself once every 2 weeks. No nat gas here so we have an underground LP tank. The only issue is, the way it's piped, the LP will crystalize in the regulator in the very cold weather and our unit won't start due to lack of fuel. So we end up having to heat the regulator to get the unit started. Once it's running though, it works fine. We've been trying to address the issue, but so far, no avail.

Our solar panels are hooked to the grid, no batteries, so if the power is out, they don't work. The inverter (converts the power from DC to AC) needs the signal from the street to sync up the cycles. They are on our roof, but we don't worry about cleaning them as we get enough rain and snow throughout the year. Ours are now 12 years old, 5kw and in optimum conditions have still seen them generate 4,900 watts so the efficiency is still there. They are supposed to last at least 20-25 years.

We do. It's a portable job. Runs on gasoline. Purchased for the big K2000 scare. Only used it once, about the time they got it running the power was back on. It can't be louder than the air compressor and it would be outside.....

I should point out that the important part of my Generac purchase (and high price tag) is not just to have a generator to run things, but a generator that comes on automatically when it's needed. I could get a sizable portable generator with a pony panel, but that won't help me if a) I'm away, and b) if it is trouble to get started.

We have ordered a Generac. My husband, an engineer who is big into enough is never enough, was appalled at how much they tried to upsell. He said they were pushing generators twice as powerful as what we needed to be perfectly electrified during an outage.

PS Solar is in our energy mix already. I don't know if the solar energy will loop through the generator at all.

@Toronto Veterinarian...I totally agree! We just have an emergency portable one.

"Purchased for the big K2000 scare."

This caught my eye. If this is about the Y2K passage 21+ years ago to begin the new century, I wasn't aware there was a "scare".

maifleur03, I took your advice and ordered a backup battery for my CPAP machine. I'll have to take it with me every time I change locations, but I take my CPAP machine with me everywhere anyway. The battery cost $240 plus tax, and supposedly the list price is $300, but it was on sale. I selected the one I bought because reviewers said that they were able to use it for seven nights without recharging, although the specs say five nights. The reviewers also said that they had the humidifier on - I don't know how to turn my off.

In Jan 1994, we lost power for three days, and then it was restored. I think that should be the maximum number of days I would need.

When we went to Fiji for two weeks, there were islands where we could not spend the night because the hotels turned the electricity off between midnight and 6AM, and I really wanted to stay on some of those islands.

We clean our solar panels regularly, which helps a lot, since we get a lot of sand storms, but I was aware that we would need batteries in order to have power during a blackout. We just don't get blackouts here; that is, not for more than a couple of minutes at a time. This might be partly because this area was built mostly in the 1990s and later, and the infrastructure is not that old.

No full house generator but I do have a 5000W Generac that I can use to keep the fridge and lights on and my freezers full of meat running if needed.

Thanks for all of the replies and info, gave me a lot to think about. Thx also Annie for the related link. I bought our 5,000W Honda generator back in 2003 shortly before Hurricane Isabel hit here and knocked out power for 5 days. Fortunately at the time it wasn't too hot outside or inside and the gen kept the deep freeze and 2 fridge's going + the well, lights, and tv. Several years later we built an addition with a sub ele box which enabled me to wire the generator up to the house better. It can also run the ele stove or water heater as long as other items are unplugged. Like with Mr. Haney's old generator, never go over #7 with the plugs ;-)

If this is about the Y2K passage 21+ years ago to begin the new century, I wasn't aware there was a "scare".

Elmer, coincidentally I just came across this article: https://time.com/5752129/y2k-bug-history/

20 Years Later, the Y2K Bug Seems Like a Joke—Because Those Behind the Scenes Took It Seriously

^^^ yep, I made a lot of money as a contract programmer from 1997-1999 taking care of the Y2K issues in computer systems. Many systems had only 6 character dates (YYMMDD) and needed to be converted to 8 character dates (CCYYMMDD).

I share an almost full house generator with my landlady (who lives upstairs). By "almost" I mean it powers everything essential except for the lights in the bedrooms. So heat, hot water, all the kitchen appliances and full power in my great room. It is powered by propane and comes on within minutes of a power outage.

And we can get quite a few of those.....depending on weather and how recently any trees along the utility right of ways have been trimmed.

As to the Y2K "scare" it was a very real thing and I can't imagine anyone living through it was not aware of that fact. My DH at the time was in charge of IT for a regional utility company and I can recall the hours of overtime put in prior to the fact to prevent what was anticipated to be a major technological shutdown at the stroke of midnight 12/31/99. Fortunately, it turned out to be a non-issue but no one knew that ahead of time.

Year 2000 problems

bookwoman, I commented because I wasn't clear if "K2000" referred to something else or was a malaprop. Then as now, I was in Silicon Valley and there were few on the ground that considered it to be a scare and that was the vibe I was exposed to. To run out and buy a generator in the face of the mostly calm guidance that existed at the time seemed an extreme overreaction.

Lars in the settings on my cpap you can adjust the humidity. Set it to zero but depending on model you may need to leave the container attached. Also check to see if there is a separate heating feature. That would also need to be turned off. Some models have a feature that if you remove the tank they do not need to be adjusted. My husband had that type.

My ResMed to adjust things you turn it on by pressing the On once, press the knob which will cause the controls to light up. Turning the knob will give you options. Press the knob then turn up or down to move the options on my small screen. When finished turn it off as normal.

The most difficult part in this area having a generator would be having enough gasoline to run it during multiple day outages. If there is no electricity to run the gas pumps you are out of luck.

Something I recently found when looking for a light bulb were battery powered ones. There are apparently two types. One charges when in the socket and the light is on the other uses a USB connection. Since they are new to me I have not taken the time to do any research as to how long they will emit light or the storage time before they will not work. Some apparently turn on automatically while others in pictures show a switch.

Our area is prone to power outages. For years, we had a small gas powered generator that would run the furnace, well pump, freezers and refrigerator. It was a pain to pull it out and start it every time we had an outage. Plus it was not practical for continuous running during longer outages.

Last year, we installed a whole house Generac generator which runs on propane. The generator comes on automatically when the power goes out. Yesterday we lost power for about four hours. I was so grateful our generator was able to run the A/C for the house! Cost for the generator installed was $10,000 (NE US).

FYI - A whole house generator is not an economical way to power a house but in an emergency, it is worth it. To run our whole house on the generator in the winter for about a week cost over $1,000 in propane.

I‘ve been going back and forth on buying one. Since moving here in 1984, the longest power outage we’ve experienced has been three days and that’s happened twice. However, we are prone to brief outages and interuptions. I’ve considered going with a power wall because they’re instant on. The cost is as much, if not more, than a whole house generator and you’re out of luck if the outage period exceeds your battery storage capacity. Our solar generation capabilities are not the best.

Whole house generators are about peace of mind and convenience, not economy. The very best approach is when they can be connected to natural gas service. Second best, propane. Few if any would run on gasoline. The primary reason is not only the inconvenience and danger of maintaining an adequate supply but also the fact that gasoline "goes bad" within some number of months, sooner than within years. Propane in a tank has an unlimited storage life.

We have both gas generators one at our all electric home and one at our propane fueled camp. Between the lawn tractor, snow blower, or leaf blower at home and the lawn mower we use to edge at camp or the weed weed wacker the gasoline is always being refreshed. If it isn't used in a certain amount of time it is dumped into our cars. Gasoline works for us because we rairly ever have to fire them up. I can't even remember when we used it last, but it gives us the peace of mind if we would ever lose electric in the winter for an extended period of time. Plus it is nice that it is portable. If we had more trouble with power outages we probably would consider a whole house generator.

jrb - I don't know where you live but we thought about buying one for our primary home for two years. We have one at our place in the PA mountains and it's been a godsend. But we don't have too many outages here and when we do they tend to be of a short duration. At our PA home we've had outages lasting up to 4 days.

As Elmer said it is a matter of convenience and peace of mind. After speaking to the head of our local NOAA we decided to call our contractor. The NOAA official mentioned that storms in our area (New Jersey) are becoming more frequent, lasting longer and of greater intensity than before.

"the other uses a USB connection. Since they are new to me I have not taken the time to do any research as to how long they will emit light or the storage time before they will not work."

I just put a motion sensor strip light in a cupboard that can be rather dark - it is magnetized and I used adhesive strips to attach a metal bar to the wall, then the light sticks to the metal bar. When I need to recharge it (USB), I take it off the metal strip, recharge it, then reattach it. How long it will last will depend on the size of the battery, just like other rechargeable tools.....Larger batteries cost more and are bigger, but last longer. (This is the one I have https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B089WB263K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1; so far, so good, but it's only been 3 or 4 days - but I like it enough to consider buying more for other locations).

"the gasoline is always being refreshed. If it isn't used in a certain amount of time it is dumped into our cars."

That's a problem for me -- I have a small gas generator at the cottage, but it's my only gas-powered thing there. Even with an extender added, it doesn't last forever; I told my sister that when I'm up there in a couple of weeks, I'll take my gas can over to her to use in her tools/vehicles/boat. (I drive electric, and my mower and weed whacker are electric.) I hate having gas around, anyway, and if I had to do it again I'd get one that could also run on propane.

Yeah, I'd never "dump" stale gas into a car. That's taking a small problem and potentially making it a larger and much more expensive one. Better to find a disposal site.

Toronto Veterinarian, it sounds like a gasoline generator isn't a good fit for you. Our gasoline is stored in sheds. We never store it in the house. Same with the diesel.

@maire_cate, you have one of the power walls? Tesla? Do you have solar or charge from the grid?

"We never store it in the house."

Oh, good Lord no! Mine is in my (detached by 30') garage.

Jrb - You might be thinking of Annie, she does have solar panels.

We have regular generators - one propane in PA and natural gas one in NJ. Interesting though that you asked about Tesla. Our house in PA is 26 years old so we will probably replace the roof shingles sometime relatively soon and we are researching solar panels. DH contacted Tesla to find out more about their system and the feasibility of installing one in our area. They gave him such a hard sell that he finally told them to stop calling and that we'd call them. They were annoyingly persistent.

Initially Tesla checked our house on Google maps and told us that we wouldn't have enough hours of sun to make it worthwhile. Not because of cloud cover but because we're in the middle of a heavily wooded area and the trees would block the rays from hitting the solar panels reducing the number of available hours that the panels could effectively collect energy. DH calculated the cost, including power walls - and it would be extremely expensive. And since this is a vacation home the price probably doesn't justify going solar. But we haven't ruled it out yet.

Too bad we don’t have a generator. A lightning strike took out our power 12 hours ago and we’re waiting to get a new transformer. ”Pot’s bad”, as the lineman said.

No batteries or Tesla wall for us. In order to get the subsidies, we had to connect to the grid with our solar panels.

I was thinking about what problems solar panels might cause between neighbors and landscaping in the future. I can see neighbors feuding over planting trees, adding 2nd stories, building new homes due to blocking sunlight. Are homes facing a certain direction going to be worth more. Are people going to be cutting down beautiful trees in the name of sunlight or resale solar value. Presently (unless your in a HOA) you can plant what you want where you want on your own property. One tree planted could make your neighbors solar panels useless in the future.

I started thinking about this when our neighbor over the hill put solar panels on their roof this summer. They have the typical housing plan shallow back yard . It is only 30-40 ft deep. Although I have no intention of doing so, with a couple of planted pines or green giant I could block the majority of their sunlight year round, rendering their panels almost useless.

It will be interesting to see what happens as solar panels become common.

Roof top solar is increasingly popular in my neighborhood. I can think of two instances where fairly large trees were cut down which increased solar exposure. To be fair, both of these were maples which were not in the best of health -- so not sure what the owners primary motivation was.

As to blocking solar, it's similar to blocking a scenic view. It's a risk you accept when you buy a home with other homes close by. Be a good neighbor, and hope your neighbors are good to you.

Decades old legislation in my state addresses such situations with rules intended to prevent newly planted vegetation from shading a neighbor's solar equipment during hours of peak sunlight. It's a question of what came first - it applies for new plantings made when a system has previously been installed but not for shade from trees that were in place beforehand.

Of course home values are affected by the presence or absence of sunlight, orientation of houses and roof planes, and so much else.

I'm not sure what kind of a jerk would deliberately and needlessly cause a nuisance for a neighbor, by planting trees or bushes to block another's solar panels. I realize such people exist.

I agree a person would be a jerk to plant trees to block someone's solar panels. But where does a person's right to privacy and shade end to protect someone's right to solar. In my case, because of the terrain a 6 ft fence would offer no privacy from the housing plan below. I would need tall trees to do that. Even if I planted the trees 100 feet from the property line it would block their late afternoon solar. As I said I have no intentions of planting trees down there or it would of been done years ago. . All i have planted down there are rose of sharon and pussywillows to block looking at chain link fencing. I want to be able to see down their to check if the salt trucks came around in the winter. But it does open up a new can of worms with zoning.

As I have posted before if/when I have solar installed the panels will be installed ground level. The ideal spot is on the south side of my house. I decided against it because for a time each day light would be reflected onto my neighbor's house. Not something I would like to have reflected on my house. I am near the intersection of two major highways and the amount of dust that is in the air based on what accumulates on my glass patio table would mean the panels would need to be cleaned perhaps even more frequently than the suggested twice a year cleaning. For those who have installed already or are thinking of installing do you have company's in your area that do the cleaning for you? I would hesitate to have a "handyman" climb on the roof as most in this area do not have the right kind of insurance.

I don't think the solar panel matter and a neighbor's trees is something new but rather just a new wrinkle to an old issue. One neighbor not causing a problem for another. The solar law I mentioned has no effect on zoning, it's a state-wide rule. Many laws exist - concerning sound, light, permitted uses, odors, animals, etc., to restrict selfish or locationally impermissible activity a person could have that would inconvenience or be a nuisance for a neighbor

Where I live, many houses have views and trees can block them. Most fair-minded people find ways to get along. I recently paid to have several of my downhill neighbor's trees trimmed, trees that had grown to partially obstruct views from one part of my house. I approached him with the issue along with my proposed solution. All he needed to do was agree and provide access, in return he could have the needed trimming done for free. We both benefitted and we're both happy.

PA law are basic as far as property rights. Most ordnances are left up to the individual townships, towns, etc zoning departments. One size does not fit all for every area.

Minor laws and ordinances vary from place to place, major ones, not so much. There would be no state (nor national) laws if the prevailing opinions were that everything should be determined locally.

Zoning is local because that's a matter of what land located where can be used for what, something that needs to be determined with feet on the ground, but building codes and standards tend not to be. In my area, I believe there can be local variations to building codes making them more restrictive but not less restrictive than the state code.

California's Solar Shade legislation, which applies statewide, was first enacted in 1978 though it has been amended. The law is not a recent thing.