I've also started leaving the air handler fan on all the time, hoping that it's circulating the colder air in the basement throughout the house better.

Running the fan in the air handler 24/7 is going to use a lot of electricity. I think you are better off putting the thermostat back to auto in my opinion.

Using a temperature set back is an inexpensive way to save energy costs. However you like to sleep in a 67 degree bedroom. At 9pm you run the AC for 12.5 hours trying to cool the whole house to 67 degrees. That takes a lot of energy. If 75 degrees is good for every room except the bedroom, then should consider installing a window or portable unit in the bedroom. No need to cool the whole house down to the desired sleeping temperature and then letting it warm up each day.

Other inexpensive ideas is installing darkening shades and blind to block out as much direct sunlight as possible.

How's your attic insulation? Air tightness? Sealing openings to the outside, like around wall sockets and light switches, pipe protrusions through walls and floors inside cabinets, and the like can make a difference and are DIY projects.

A 67 degree setting for an 18 year old system is where your cost is, as is needlessly leaving on the air handler blower. That alone could be using 300 kwh per month, you can price that out with your electricity rates but that's a chunk of cost easily avoided. Keeping the fan blowing, by the way, raises indoor humidity during cooling season (because the air is circulated thorough the damp coil area when the compressor is off and picks up humidity) and will make a given temperature setting less comfortable.

If you haven't replaced the heat pump since you bought the place, it's likely the original. Bite the bullet and replace it, you'll need to sooner than later anyway. But perhaps better to wait until the fall when contractors have more time.

"Using a temperature set back is an inexpensive way to save energy costs."

This is fine in the summer with AC but don't do that in the winter with a heat pump or the backup heat strips will kick in, using a lot of electricity.

Use of auxilliary electric heat strips for winter setback recovery with heat pumps is minimized if the thermostat has a "smart recovery" process (with learning algorithms) that begins the recovery early of the target time and ramps the temp up slowly. Some (a wired outdoor temp sensor may be required) can also lock-out the heat strips (they still function during defrost and Emergency Heat mode) when the outdoor temp is above a specific temp.

Set your thermostat at 74-76 and leave it alone. Your waste is ridiculous trying to cool the whole house for a cooler bedroom !!! We keep our thermostats for both units at 76 all Summer . Use a fan in your bedroom if you feel too warm . A portable a/c can be an alternative but they are noisy and you must seal the area in the exit / entry point very well. The basic problem is an old outdated unit and exceedingly unrealistic expectations for how cool your home should be at night.

In my defense, it's not just an issue of the bedroom being a little warm, it's that I physically can't sleep in the heat! LOL At 67 with a ceiling fan, I sleep under a sheet and still sweat.

But you're right, I'm cooling the whole house just to cool down the one room. Any recommendations for a good AC for just the bedroom?

How's your attic insulation?

The attic isn't a finished attic, but I can walk around on the joists and the center is at least 10' high. The floor of the attic (ceiling to the top floor) is layered in pink insulation and seems good, but I have no way of knowing whether there are degrees of "good" when it comes to that.

Two things to note about insulation, though:

1. When I first moved here we were amazed at how quiet it was! A delivery truck could pull up and we would have no idea until the door bell rang.

But now? I'm sitting in my home office and can easily hear the frogs and crickets outside!

Is it that I changed, or has the exterior wall insulation deteriorated in some way?

2. In the Winter, the kitchen floor IS much colder than the rest of the house! It's a split level house (basement, main floor, and upstairs) with the kitchen on the main floor, directly above a crawlspace.

I went through last year and made sure that all of the insulation in the crawlspace was where it's supposed to be, but there's still something that's causing cold air to get in there.

The floor in the living room (also on the main floor) is fine, so it's not the crawlspace itself, but something about the insulation near the floor cabinets.

Hi, Jason,

I suggest you have an energy audit performed. Some utility companies offer the service free of charge or you may need to hire a local HERS rater. They'll know what works and what doesn't in your climate zone. The auditor can help you make informed choices about the value added by supplementing the insulation in your attic and by converting your vented crawl space to a conditioned crawl so your floor will be warmer in winter.

You're in IECC climate zone 4, (mixed-humid) which is the same as mine. I find control of indoor relative humidity greatly improves comfort level. Your air conditioner may not be doing the best job of controlling relative humidity. You can buy a workable thermo-hygrometer for around $20 that will help you assess that.

If you need to maintain a different temperature in different parts of your home, you need a zoned system. If you only need two zones of control--one for the bedroom and the other for the rest of the home--you should consider a mini-split heat pump dedicated to the bedroom.

You likely have 9 inches of insulation in the attic which would equate to an R-30 rating. You could add more but I doubt it will make a noticeable difference in your cooling costs. Does the attic have good ventilation? If not then spending money a better ventilation may be worthwhile.

The kitchen floor is colder because it is over the crawl space and not the basement. You should investigate the amount of insulation.

I physically can't sleep in the heat! LOL At 67 with a ceiling fan, I sleep under a sheet and still sweat.

Do you sleep on a memory foam topper or a pillow top mattress filled with memory foam? If so then that may be contributing to the problem. Latex toppers don't give the hot feel and are more comfortable in my opinion. This is a possibly another inexpensive fix to consider.

While adding additional insulation in an attic is subject to the law of diminishing returns, it's typically one of the highest return on investment home improvements you can make. Plus, it's usually easy to implement-- even on a DIY basis.

R-30 attic insulation wouldn't meet current building code requirements in the OP's area which call for R-38. Depending on the type of attic insulation currently installed, it's also an opportunity to improve air sealing.

In general I agree with you. If the homeowner is willing to do the insulation then in most cases it is a good return on investment. If we assume the current insulation is in good condition and is about R-30 then it would easiest to install unfaced insulation perpendicular to the joists. This would insulate the joists which have a low R value. I did this job in a previous house I owned many years ago. It is hard work. All you need is a utility knife and small piece of plywood for cutting. A mask and gloves are highly recommended.

Out of curiosity I did a search on unfaced insulation rolls. The rolls are easier to install than batts. Unfortunately there are not many choices for unfaced roll. You can buy the Owens Corning pink fiberglass R-19 insulation roll for about $.80 a square foot. Let's assume the attic is 1000 square feet. The cost of materials would be about $800. The question becomes how much would the cooling cost decrease. Going from R-30 to R-38 is a small change in heat loss. If I had to guess the savings would be less than 5%.

I think it would be more cost effective to put the $800 towards a window AC in this particular case. Set the AC to the desired bedroom temperature, and keep the thermostat at 75 degrees or possibly higher if the homeowner is comfortable. The homeowner is setting the thermostat to 67 at night, but I did hear what is the actual temperature is in the bedroom after the AC runs non-stop from 9pm to 2am.

I did hear what is the actual temperature is in the bedroom after the AC runs non-stop from 9pm to 2am.

I'll check tonight, but as of 2pm it's 84 degrees outside and the thermostat is set to 75. I turned the air handler fan to "Auto" last night, so it's not running right now.

Here are the temperatures on each floor:

Basement (near air handler): 72.0

Living Room (main floor): 76.3

measured directly in front of the thermostat: 76.6

Bedroom (measured at my pillow): 77.5

Office: 78.1

I have ceiling fans in the living room, bedroom, and office, all going counterclockwise. The curtains are closed in the basement, main floor, and bedroom, but not in my office.

I'm not sure where the thermometer for the thermostat is actually located. It's not running right now, but nowhere that I looked actually measured 75 degrees.

This is why I was leaving the air handler fan on, with the basement being the coldest room in the house I was hoping to distribute the cool air better. I turned it on and tried measuring about 30 minutes later, though, and the measurements were all less than 1 degree different. So it doesn't seem to have had much of an impact, if any :-/

the thermostat is set to 75.

Bedroom (measured at my pillow): 77.5

This is part of the problem. The bedroom is 2.5 degrees warmer compared to the bedroom You have to over cool the whole house in order to be comfortable. Normally an AC is sized with an indoor temperature of 75 degrees. It has to run a long time to get down to 67 and probably cannot do it until hours after the sun goes down. This is why I am suggesting adding more cooling to the bedroom. You could install a mini split in the bedroom But it will be much more expensive than a window AC unit.

I have ceiling fans in the living room, bedroom, and office, all going counterclockwise.

Does counterclockwise push the air down towards to floor? i think you want to feel the wind chill effect the fan produces by having it blow air on you.

It has to run a long time to get down to 67 and probably cannot do it until hours after the sun goes down.

Correct, and this is why I start the cooling process at 9:30pm, a bit after sunset.

This is why I am suggesting adding more cooling to the bedroom. You could install a mini split in the bedroom But it will be much more expensive than a window AC unit.

Fun new challenge: I had the house painted a few years ago, and he painted all of the windows shut!! So there's no way to open the bedroom window, either for a window AC unit or for an exhaust from a portable.

I tried to get one window open by cutting the dried paint along the edges, but that didn't help. I'm tempted to use a small prybar, but I'm concerned that I might crack the glass! And I don't have $6000+ to spend on new windows right now. I'm going to create a separate thread on this one...

Oh the joys of home ownership.

I found this video to get you started:

How to Unstick a Painted Window

Thanks, @mike_home!

So why did you start a new thread with the same window paint issue?

@Stax, there are two reasons:

1. It has nothing to do with "cheap tips to save money on heat / air costs"; and

2. This thread is under the "Heating & Air Conditioning" forum, so painted windows is off topic for the forum.

Again, two reasons:

1. I'm a stupid, stupid man; and

2. When I first started talking about the heat pump, I didn't know that it would eventually be relevant to the "Windows" forum. I didn't realize (or, at least, remember) that there was a "Home Repair" forum until I posted the other thread and the site suggested it.

If I've violated site rules or social guideline, I apologize and plead ignorance :-( I've never found any rules or TOS for the site so I'm just using general internet etiquette.

I'd like to second the recommendation for a home energy assessment. Here, it's a $50 co-pay and the service is funded through fees charged on everyone's electric bill. While the visit was a bit underwhelming, the blower door test was worth the whole visit. It came as a complete surprise that the draft created sucked in the most air along the top trim of all the windows. The contractors applied a bead of clear caulk over many (60+ windows, so it will be addressed when painting is done). I learned that the attic air sealing can make a big difference but it's often a sizable project to do it completely. You should really remove the insulation to get at all the areas. A big benefit in my location is that the assessment qualifies you to have a significant discount for insulation work. If NC has a similar program you may get that crawl spaced addressed for very little cost. In addition to insulation, vapor barriers may help on the basement/crawl ceiling. If your attic is a pull down hatch, it should have an insulation 'box' that fits over the hatch opening. Attic vents and exhaust fans should be checked for proper operation to let that heat out. Any lights cut into the ceiling can have a cap put over the opening in the attic. Vents in the ceiling (bath) should be sealed in the attic around the cut out.

In addition to a blower door test, thermal imaging might be helpful. I think you can rent the infrared scanning equipment to identify hot and cool spots. If you're lucky, the energy audit will include that service.

Regarding the windows: many new windows will have an R value of 3. Consider that in light of R-30 or higher wall insulation. If the old ones are solid and properly installed and insulated, new ones will not help much. One of the most energy efficient window treatments is the honeycomb cellular shade and the double cells are more insulative. I'm not enamored of them but they sort of disappear when not in use.

Other cheap stuff: weather stripping, more caulking inside and out, thin foam insulation pieces that go behind wall switches and plugs on outside walls - plus baby safe outlet covers (shocking how much cold air comes through those unused plugs in winter), well controlled use of expandable foam not just at pipes but also (very carefully done) around electrical boxes on outside walls.

link Home Energy Checklist

Jason, you wrote “Here are the temperatures on each floor:

Basement (near air handler): 72.0

Living Room (main floor): 76.3
measured directly in front of the thermostat: 76.6

Bedroom (measured at my pillow): 77.5

Office: 78.1”

Those are rooms, not floors. Can you close the door down to the basement? How many floors does the house have, including the basement? Close the doors of all spare rooms not in use at night. We don’t use the 2 spare bedrooms at the northwest side of the house and leave those doors closed. They get afternoon sun and warm up a bit, but since the doors are closed, it doesn’t affect the rest of the house.

Sorry for the confusion, @ShadyWillowFarm. I'd commented on each room's location before, but should have clarified :-)

The house is a split level, so technically 3 floors plus the attic.

As of 12:20am, the thermostat is set to 70 and is not running (implying that it's reading 70 somewhere). It's 68 outside.

The basement is, obviously, the bottom floor. That's the location of the air handler, and the coolest floor in the house. It's currently 65.5 (4.5 lower than the thermostat).

The main floor is an open floor plan of living room, dining room, and kitchen. It's currently 68.2

The bedroom and office are the top floor, and are both currently 70.7

There's an unfinished attic above me, which I do use for some storage. I haven't gone up there to measure, but when I go in the Summer it can be breathtakingly hot!

I do have a door to the basement, which I used to close because I had a beagle that would bark down there all night long! LOL It was creepy at first and naturally I assumed he could see ghosts that I couldn't see... until I realized that he was hearing the condensation pump come on! LOL He passed away, though, and I started leaving it open again in the hopes of letting the colder air flow upward.

The only other interior doors are to the 3 bedrooms (two are remodeled to home offices, both South-facing) and bathrooms, all upstairs. I leave the bathroom doors open, but shut the doors to the two home offices.

Back to the attic, I'm pretty sure that the only vent is a single air vent with a screen over it to keep out bugs, and the exhaust vents are kinda just aimed in that vent's general direction.

@TBL from CT, I'm definitely going to do some research in to that energy audit! I've never heard of that in my area, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And it sounds like it could eliminate a lot of my guesswork!

Hot air rises, my friend, and cold air sinks. 🙂

Jason,

You should monitor the temperature of your attic. You can install a remote thermometer and hygrometer and monitor on your smart phone via bluetooth. Here is the one I use:

Govee Bluetooth Thermometer Hygrometer

It can store two years worth of data and display the temperature and humidity down by week, day, and hour.

This is the single vent that I was talking about. If you look closely you can kinda see a white pipe behind it? That's the bathroom vents.

Walking around the house, I also have these two vents. One comes from the kitchen fan, the other appears to be over the guest bathroom. I didn't see a third one for the master bath, so maybe they two baths share one?

There are also vents in the eaves, which you can see in the pic above.

No luck yet finding an energy auditor, no one on the local forums know what I'm talking about! :-O

Jason,

I believe Duke Energy is your utility company in Greensboro. They offer free home energy audits or at least they did in 2017 when the article in the link below was published:

https://illumination.duke-energy.com/articles/how-an-energy-audit-saved-me-money

How about a bed cooler?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/too-hot-to-sleep-try-cooling-your-bed-itself-11657917554?st=bgipsd5l9pgr9t8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Well! That's interesting :-D I love the idea, but $1000 is a tad on the "up there" side. I glanced at Amazon for cheaper options and found one for $250, but people complained that it was pretty uncomfortable so I dunno.

Still, it's a thought!