Josh have you only seen Astroturfî, or have you seen some of the modern day artificial grass? The comment you made sounds like a comment that I routinely made before seeing modern day - not Astroturfî- artifical lawns. The difference is that you don't know the fake stuff is fake unless someone tells you. Whether the site prep damages tree roots or the stuff doesn't let water pass through, I don't know. What I do know is the OP ask for something that doesn't exist. Drought tolerant grass that grows in the shade. Alternative ground covers would be another solution, one I personally would do but it sounds like OP is dead set on turfgrass.

Thank you everyone for coming to the swap.I think everyone had a great time. I know I did. I can't believe the food you people brought. It was gourmet awesome. I hope we get recipes . Those of you who left things behind, I have put them on top of the refrigerator and you can pick them up in the fall. I was out today starting to plant all my treasures. Lisa, I have put the coral bells in a shady moist area vey near my red astilbe. I will be giving it tender loving care. I also planted my chocolate joe Pye weed in a place of honor in my garden. It is just awesome. How tickled I am, Deidre, to have this beautiful plant. I also planted dahlias, sedums,jack in the pulpits, lavender,and butter fly weed all wonderful plants I will be getting up early tomorrow to plant the rest of my treasures I put some pictures on Facebook If you are not a member you can ask to be my friend and that should get you on.

Thank you, Carol and bluesanne. The tree that creates the largest amount of shade is a gigantic silver maple and my neighbor is very much attached to this tree. I don't want to hurt her feelings but I also don't think it would be possible to remove much of the shade without basically cutting off most of this tree. I kinda like it too though there are tons of helicopter seeds to clean up in spring. You got it right, bluesanne. I'm doubting myself in advance! :-) We planted CdM last week and, after a day or two of adjustment, he looks fine now but I worry if he would not have enough sun to get properly established: he gets sun at about 8:30-10 am and then again for slightly over an hour in the late afternoon, ca. 5-6 pm. For the rest of the day, sometimes it's dappled shade and sometimes deep shade, depending on the density of maple leaves. Carol, I am very encouraged now after seeing how much/little light some of your old roses get! And they all look gorgeous as seen on your recent threads. I'm curious,-- do you prune your albas, gallicas and other OGRs in early spring or right after their blooming? My guess is that, for part-shade conditions under deciduous trees, it would be better to prune them before they leaf out because that's when they get most sun for developing their new buds... I'm somewhat confused that OGRs flower on "old wood" and yet I read that some prune them in winter/early spring.

I do hope so Paul. I am not sure. When I questioned my not Umbra's foliage, Janet pointed to a nonblooming plant on the right side of their entrance driveway at RVRs and said she thought it was Umbra and the she thought the foliage looked like mine. Since the plant was not blooming last Fall of course I had no way of knowing if what she pointed at was Umbra. This coming Spring, maybe I could go over there and look to the right side of the driveway when gallicas should be blooming and look for it. I think it was in a half whiskey barrel planter. I do remember where she pointed.