Please comment on kitchen layout

last month

last modified: last month

Hi I'm working on a kitchen remodel and trying to figure out the right flow. I know I want the sink under the window as it currently is but trying to figure out the best place for pantry, fridge, appliance garage, coffee station, etc. I'm hoping that even by eliminating all uppers that aren't connected to a floor to ceiling pantry or appliance garage, we'll still have enough storage yet feel more open.

@Buehl @rebunky You had some great comments on imsuzz's post a few days ago so thought I'd tag you here.

Thanks!

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Comments (17)

Verbo
last month
last modified: last month
Hire a kitchen designer. Lots of expensive technical issues moving anything around. You need expert help and a large budget.
nyssie
Original Author
last month
I did. Asking for feedback or thoughts.
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How about something like this? It does involve changing doorways & windows. Increase the opening to the Front Hallway to 9'4" Eliminate the angled wall to the FR Increase the window width to 6' to maximize the backyard view This gives you: A fabulous view of the backyard while prepping (most of the time in the Kitchen, 70%, is spent prepping) Visitors (or you!) can gaze out on the backyard while seated at the island Visitors entering your home will see the backyard from the front door. However, a drawback is the sink will also be visible. But, if you get deep sink, you should be able to hide those dirty dishes! (This is the one time I might actually suggest *gasp* a raised counter! It might help some since people will be at a bit of a distance away when entering the house. Of course, if they come into the kitchen it won't, but then nothing will anyway. You also won't have a big expanse of work space on the island anyway b/c of the sink.) You have 76" of prep space (52" + 24") in a prime location...b/w the range & refrigerator and across from the sink Refrigerator & MW are on the periphery so they're accessible from the Kitchen as well as the FR and the outside. Snackers coming from the FR & outside will not get in the way of those working in the Kitchen. Eliminating the FR wall gives you more clearance for going into the backyard from the Front Hallway. It also provides a view of the backyard from the FR. Increasing the width of the doorway to the Front Hallway gives you more seating clearance. Drawback: No pantry space. There also seems to be a lot of wasted space in front of the slider...an area about 72" x 88". It would be nice if there was a way to put a shallow pantry in that area. So....what do you think?
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Thanks! I appreciate alternative ideas since you don't know what you don't know! :) Pantry cabinets - I will see what kind of other options I have! I am replacing a pantry closet (34" wide x 24" deep), so I would like to have at least comparable storage space. I actually like the look of cabinets that come down to the counter as well. I'm just not sure it will provide me the same amount of storage. But I will look into it! Cabinets on side of window/sink -- once I get the estimate for my counter-height window, I can revisit the upper cabinets. The width of the window may change. 15" Drawer - I think the drawing may have been too small. The smallest drawer is a 19" drawer to the right of the cooktop. I went this route to get 30" uppers to the left/right of the hood. My other cabinet layout options had a 12" upper (along with 24" cabs to the left/right of the hood). I thought the 30" uppers was a better option??? I'm struggling with the cabinet layout though!! Beverage frig - my husband and I drink a lot of soda. We have 4 12 packs in the frig at any time. Since we are going with a counter-depth frig, we decided to move the soda to the bev frig. I think this might be nice when we have parties too. The people in the family room can just go to the bev frig for drinks (and put their cans in the recycle bin that's right there as well), rather than walking back to the main frig. This was my rationale anyway! Thanks!
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You didn't ask, but I have some comments about the rest of the house. Which way is north? All the jogs in the front will make for a very expensive build, and I don't know that you gain a lot from them. If you could straighten out the guest room/study/entry/dining room wall, you'd save a ton. What is your climate? You have a tiny closet at the rear entry, and no coat closet at the front. No raincoats where you live? We live in coat/boot/mitten country, and I like having a bench near the doors, for putting on boots and shoes. You don't have room for that at either entry. How many people will live in the house? What's in the basement? Do you need both a full guest bath and a powder room? Your garage entry looks cramped, and could benefit from some more space - but the laundry room is huge, and you could steal space from it. The master bath doesn't have room (as drawn) for 2 sinks. You have no storage in this bathroom for an extra towel or roll of TP. Do you plan to put that in the master closet? The closets in the laundry have a lot of inaccessible space, the way the doors are drawn. Where will the washer and dryer go? It's best to have the dryer on an outside wall, so it can vent directly outside. You devote a lot of space for a dining room you don't plan to use much, and the study is tiny. What are your plans for that room? If you will spend much time there, I'd steal space from the generous guest room for the study, or move the entry and stairs to the right and steal from the dining room. Now, for the kitchen. The way the rear of the house is configured, you won't get much direct sunlight in the living areas, even if they face south. I would definitely plan for skylights or solar tubes in the kitchen and great room, and spend plenty of time working on a lighting plan. Most folks here are big on using drawers as much as possible. My favorite advice for kitchen planning is to figure out where you are going to put things in the new space: potholders, plastic containers, cooking utensils, pots and pans, glasses, dishes, spices, small appliances, etc. Things should be near their point of use. If you have more than one person in the kitchen, you may be bumping butts, if one is at the stove and the other at the sink - but aisle width may solve that. Will you have a microwave? Where will that go? With the range on an inside wall, it will have to vent through the ceiling. Make sure your vent hood has a large enough fan to get the air outside - and provide for make-up air, if necessary.
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For a while I was in love with a house that had essentially that same kitchen -- and the kitchen is the reason I moved on. Without being able to see the whole house plan, I suspect the problem here is the kitchen's location. It is placed in such a way that it must function as kitchen PLUS hallway, and that just doesn't function well when you're talking about the hardest-working room in the whole house. My husband and I cook, but we don't cook together. So our preference is a smallish kitchen with everything in reach and no "pig paths" through the work space. We tried to relocate the garage entry door to the other side of the kitchen, thinking that it'd be okay to have an entrance area there on the side by the refrigerator. BUT that cut off all access to the bedroom, which was in the same position as the bathroom you're showing. If you love the rest of the house and are determined to fix this kitchen, I wish you luck. I'd suggest you focus on these things: - You want to enter the kitchen and come to storage first: That is, you want your pantry and your refrigerator to be the first things you encounter. This means you aren't carrying things back and forth across the work space. - You want your sink (and in a kitchen this size, two sinks don't make sense) to be centrally located so you can use it for both prep and clean up. - You want a good, uninterrupted prep space (preferably facing outward) between the storage and the sink, and you want garbage next to it. - You don't want walkways separating work areas. Not only are people going to walk through, you're going to spill things as you move them from one work space to another.
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Moore4
last month
At first glance, the utility sink and range in corner is a problem
nyssie
Original Author
last month
@Moore4 yes, decided to remove that this morning, so reposted sketch without it.
ljpar
last month
How how tall are you? (You don't really have to answer this question...) For sub zero, you could be looking at 84 inches tall. If you have very high ceilings, and can actually fit a cab above that space, are you tall enough to ever use it? I haven't seen the inside of the cabinet over my current fridge in four years, and it's a standard height (not sub zero) fridge lol.

Also, will you have counter space next to the appliance garage? I would recommend it becasue you'll need landing space for ingredients and tools if you are prepping things like batters, doughs, etc. The elevation of your run looks like you have counter space, but the description of a wall oven on the overhead floorplan indicates floor-to-ceiling cabinets (no counter space). Without a dedicated landing space there, you are going to find it hard to use any of the equipment you are keeping in the appliance garage.
mcarroll16
last month
Is that mud room a primary entrance for your family? If so, that's a lot of traffic funneling through the main prep area. Your kitchen area is tight, so not sure whether there's a fix. It would be great to see an expanded sketch that shows how the living room and dining room connect to each other. That might give people other ideas for how to improve your layout.
Andrea
last month
oils and spices should not be next to the heat of the oven.
rebunky
last month
last modified: last month
How exciting! It is great how you are thinking everything through and planning where each item will go. Agree that posting a to scale sketch of the surrounding rooms, living and dining, helps. Can the entries from the kitchen to either of those spaces be moved around?

Here are a few things off the bat that are bugging me. Most stuff was mentioned already.

The range being way too tight in the corner is a problem for me as well. I would want at the bare minimum a foot of counter from the corner to the cooktop or range.

I have never had a blind corner pull out, but I have read enough on this site about the cons that I would not do that. A super susan would be nice and would give you the extra foot from the corner.

I also see a lack of counter space to work by the appliance garage. With an oven stack there you would have to carry heavy items to somewhere with counter space to work.

On the other hand, if you did the countertop under the microwave as a coffee station, wouldn’t you have to move the coffee pot, etc, off of that counter in order to slide the kitchenaid mixer or other appliances out sideways from the garage? I was picturing them sitting on a rollout tray that slides through that side opening to use. Either way, you cannot really use that counter space for the appliances with coffee stuff there taking up space. Even with it cleared off, once the mixer is there it doesn’t give you much extra countertop to actually work on.

I am sure the dishes and glasses could be rearranged on that tall cabinet by the sink to be accessable, but looking at the drawing I was like, man you would need to be a giant in order to get a glass of water haha!

I will think on it some more, and let you know if I have any ideas.
nyssie
Original Author
last month
Thanks @Andrea, will swap that out with cutting boards and baking sheets and put those in the pantry. @mcarroll16 The kitchen door is not a primary entrance, our front door is. Currently, our kids just throw everything down by the front door including lunch boxes so want a place to hang a jacket, put shoes and hang backpacks. Not a full mud room, something more like this (though no open cubbies at the top)
mcarroll16
last month
If that door isn't your main entrance, could you put a nice storage bench near your front door, and put your appliance garage in that mudroom storage area? Then have standard uppers and lowers next to your wall oven. That gives you a good landing space for things coming out of the oven. Big improvement in safety and convenience. Appliances will have to be carried over to a nearby counter. But that was already an issue with your existing plan.
nyssie
Original Author
last month
@rebunky Here is an updated sketch. Going with a 36" range, I don't need to do wall ovens any longer and it allows me to have some counter space next to the appliance garage. The kitchen aid and or coffee maker would slide out of the appliance garage on the side to leverage the counterspace but then can tuck it away again so it becomes usable space.

@mcarroll16 I'm also including the downstairs as-builts. The upper left is the kitchen, the upper riht is the dining room with built-ins which we're not touching, the middle right is the front door and the rest of the middle is a long odd corridor into the main living space, the lower left is the rest of the living room with a small bathroom, and the lower right is an office/sitting room.
mcarroll16
last month
last modified: last month
Thanks! Sometimes a whole-floor layout presents some easy "silver bullet" fixes. Yours does not. But seeing it does keep me from making a few pointless suggestions. :) Going with a range is a huge improvement. Makes the oven and the appliance garage areas both more functional. I wish there was room to insert a drawer unit between your DW and your fridge. See Joseph Corlett's current "Design Flaw" thread for the reasons why. You could swap your fridge and your appliance garage. But that has downsides too.
nyssie
Original Author
last month
@mcarroll16 Darn it, I keep wishing for a silver bullet to appear in this 1905 house :/

I asked my KD about switching the appliance garage and fridge yesterday and if I recall correctly the reasoning to keep it this way was because of limitations of the fridge door swings (whether french, left or right) as well as wanting to build the appliance garage and drop zone counter deeper and not being hampered by a counter-depth fridge.
mcarroll16
last month
Ah yes. Funny. I was thinking about swapping the fridge and the pantry, and ruled it out because of door clearances. Then completely forgot 30 seconds later and suggested another corner. Doh!
nyssie
Original Author
last month
I guess there's just not that many options in this kitchen :( I could not find Joseph Corlett's discussion "Design Flaw", can you post a link to it?
mcarroll16
last month
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6264541/another-design-flaw#27756157
palimpsest
last month
If you do the 36" Sub zero over and under you don't have to worry about the DW door vs.the refrigerator door, because the freezer is drawers

Please comment on kitchen layout

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