Oops, a couple things I forgot to mention:

We are a 1-cook family. My daughter (9 years old) is starting to help out more, but on a daily basis, I am the sole cook and dishwasher. :)

Also, I resisted the idea of the integrated seating area because I'm not used to sitting higher, I love my Ethan Allen dinette set (French country style), and I had envisioned a stand-alone looking, contrasting island (similar to soonermagic's). But my KD insists that an integrated dining area at the end of the island is the best use of space. =/

I forgot to take pictures of my pantry closet that's going to be removed and my dinette area ... I can include if anyone is interested.

Thanks again.

It looks like part of the rectangular section of the island is raised? I would make the working part of the island all counter height (you'll lose all that great workspace if it's raised!). Also, I assume that the eating part of the island will be lowered to table height?

Shift the cleanup sink over away from the eating section so that the DW can go kinda where the sink is currently located (just place to make sure it isn't in front of the fridge). This will make doing dishes after meals easier, and with the sink further away, yucky dishes and pots in the cleanup sink will be away from diners.

Where are you planning on storing dishes? Where are your microwave and oven located? Oh, I found the oven! Nice location on the island (you can do all your baking there) but again, I strongly second the suggestion that you make the working part of the island all counter height. The oven will fit just fine in a regular height cabinet.

I think the eating part of the island is a bit odd shaped, but if you like it that's all that matters. I would have chosen a more symmetrical oval or round shape, but I can see why the current shape was chosen.

Oh, I also have the FP ovens and DDs, and LOVE them!

Oh, I forgot to mention, that with our wine bar, we decided to put glass doors on the cabinet there and store glasses inside the cabinet vs doing the stemware slots under the cabinet. It keeps the glasses cleaner and dust free, and glasses in a glass-doored cabinet look nice too.

Yes, you're right that there's a raised ledge there. The KD said that's to hide dirty dishes in the sink ... It never occurred to me that it would curtail my work area, thanks so much for pointing that out. The dining area on the island does not drop down, as you can see in the following drawing (notice the taller chairs?)

Funny that you mentioned the sink being further away from diners. In my KD's original plan it was smack dab in the middle of the circle! Can you explain why you think the sink should move even further down? I actually wanted the prep sink on that side facing my family room since I spend more time in prep than clean-up, but I guess the prep sink should be on the side closer to the cooktop ...

Here's where the sink and DDs are placed now and you can see the base cabinets to the right of the DDs where I plan to store dishes:

Most times if the clean up sink is in an island, a raised counter is a good idea to hide the dishes. However, looking at your layout, neither the dining room nor family room have clear views of the sink, so there's no need to hide it. Go for an all one height island and you'll LOVE the extra work space.

Seeing where you're DDs are planned, I really think you should shift them and the sink down a bit. Right now they'd have to open opposite the fridge, and that will be a big traffic jam. The main point of having the different prep and cleanup zones is so that someone can do the dishes while you're cooking. You're daughter is young now, but in a few years she'll be ready for a few chores like dishes :). Even now, with the dd across from the fridge, you'll proably find that your daughter and husband will want a drink from the fridge while you're trying to load the DDs.

I like your planned dish storage and microwave locations.

I see you have two pullout trash cans planned. They're actually almost exactly across from eachother! When the pullout trash can is opened in to the aisle, you'll find that it's easily accessible from both counter runs. My trash is on the end of my island (which is my prep zone) right across from my cleanup sink. It works great for both tasks. You should keep the one by the prep sink, and get rid of the one in the island. Indeed this will sove the DD/fridge issue! Remove the trash from the island, slide the sink and DDs down down to fill that gap, and add another drawer bank next to your DDs or on the other side of the dish storage drawers. This will solve the traffic issue and place the trash pullout behind the main sink.

It sounds to me like your kitchen designer isn't designing the kitchen you want. Are you keeping the house? If you plan to sell within three years, making it "looks worthy" is worthwhile, but since you've been lurking for a year I think this kitchen means more to you than that.

Why can't you have your table if you love your table? I've been trying to figure out how to get a good sized work table into my kitchen because I want a table, which it currently doesn't have. It currently has a big peninsula and stools. I like the workspace at counter height once in awhile, but I'm eager to get rid of half of it to have a table. And a table is flexible--you can move it if you want to. Replace it. Put an extension top on it. Make it into a fort. Unless you really need the cupboards underneath I don't know why you have to have the counter height peninsula. And it looks like there's some blank wall between the buffet and the sitting area where you could add some cabinetry.

If you want to "hide" the sink as in the design but reclaim the space, you can have a facade as shown, which is only a couple inches thick and topped with molding.

You want to have your prep area convenient to the fridge and the stove, but other than that you should have it where you want it.

If you do what the kitchen designer wants you'll have a beautiful kitchen, but it'll be like moving into a new house that has a beautiful kitchen and figuring out how to make it work for you. The point of doing a custom kitchen is to figure out how you want to live and work, and making the kitchen that makes that happen! If you want the prep area in the island, make it work!

I'd prefer that as well. It might be worth a few extra steps to be able to be part of the family during prep :)

Frank Lloyd Wright was a great artist of an architect who was infamous for roofs that leaked! Your kitchen designer has given you a plan which will look great in her portfolio but which by your tone seems to be making you unhappy. This isn't about her art, or about making a kitchen which is exactly today's style (which this is) and will therefore be dated soon. This is about making YOUR kitchen, that you want to live in. A designer has to work harder when she listens to the client and does problem solving to give the client what she wants. The worst part of being a designer is clients who don't know what they want and waffle. You have stated very clearly here two things you wanted that your designer doesn't want to give you. Make her earn her keep--tell her again what you want and make her make it work!

That said, the difference between the island shown and a contrasting island with a French country table is that the former is a more upscale, formal, polished, kitchen, and the latter is a cozier, more casual, easy-going kitchen. Which do you prefer? The current back of island arrangement works as a pony wall, dividing the kitchen from the family room, and creating a hall to the dining room. It's actually a nice design. But if you'd rather have charming than polished there's no reason you shouldn't have it!

I'm not sure about the wine bar area, it seems so out of the way. I would want it in the peninsula so it can be accessed from the DR and LR.......and it would help to encourage me to cook if I could get a glass anytime LOL. Or have it near the end of the cupboards entering the DR. I'd use the area by the sliding doors for message area and pet feeding (if you have them).
I love your corner range and sitting table on the peninsula it looks very nice and inviting for coffee/tea & cards :)
I don't see the big issue about loosing counter space on your peninsula to hide dirty dishes. It seems you have 2 sinks and a DW that will do the hiding. If you want more counter space or want it flat & even ...... do it. Reality is, we all have dirty sinks once in a while and we all clean them before we have company or a function. If it's just you 3 at home I doubt dishes will overflow your DW and be 2 sinks full: )
What is across the range area to the right going into the DR? Could you possibly utilize it for a linen & wine area?
saskatchewan girl

alku, wow, thank you so much for pointing out the congestion problem between my fridge and open dish drawers ... I totally didn't see that. What do you think about shifting the larger sink and DDs to the other side under the window? Is there enough room? I would really prefer my prep sink in the island so that I could be facing out toward the rest of the living area, since I spend more time in prep. The reason I have 2 trash pullouts is because one is supposed to be for recycling, which we do lots of!

plllog, your comments really hit home with me (how did you now my table has served double-duty as a fort?). I don't care about making my kitchen a show piece, I want it to be comfortable and functional as well as attractive. The current island just seems too fussy to me somehow. I want something plainer in shape and more symmetrical perhaps? I do like the idea of people seated near me while I'm working at the island, but I'm thinking if I replace that raised part of the counter with a bit of overhang, I could incorporate a few comfy stools. I can't quite picture the facade with molding you're describing ... I'm thinking I may be guilty of a little waffling, not intentionally but because my KD's designs have helped crystallize my thinking about how I want my new kitchen to work for me.

saska, I agree that the wine area does seem a little remote. And you made me realize that I'd forgotten to ask where my phone is going. A small desk area might indeed be more practical there. The area across from my range is for 2 pantry cabinets.

Thanks to all of you for your incredibly helpful comments. I'll be calling my KD tomorrow.

Meanwhile, more comments and suggestions from others are very welcome ... =)

Erika

It is difficult to tell from the drawings, but it appears that the projection of the vent hood could prevent the flanking cabinets from opening. I would confirm the depth of the hood. I think your KD wants you to have island seating because she needs the continous length of cabinets, so that everything will fit into the island. Do you have a floorplan to share?

Hi gjones,

I haven't picked my vent hood yet, but I'll make sure when the time comes to check the clearances. The only floorplan I have is the one I included above in my original post. I have no objection to a long island that will contain appliances ... I'm just not sure I want that circle tacked onto the end of it for seating.

Erika

Sorry, let me see if I can clarify my point. It appears that with the island length, there would not be room to have a separate table, which is why the seating is attached. NKBA recommends 32" behind a seated dinner to any wall or cabinet etc, attaching the seating to the island means you don't have to allow for tht extra 32". I think I would put the island back on the drawing board and see if you can work the separate table into the space since that's what you wanted. Again it is difficult to tell without a dimensioned floorplan. Good luck with your project!

It seems it may be the oven that keeps the island from getting small enough so you can fit your table. I noticed this morning that you have open shelves under your cooktop and pots and pans drawers on both sides of it. How about drawers under the cooktop, leaving the cabinet to the right of it for the oven?
You could possibly face the oven out from the end of that run to avoid having vented heat blow on you at the cooktop.

My first thought when I saw your layout was why is the cleanup sink in the island and the prep sink is under the window? I second your idea to switch the two and perhaps center the cleanup sink under the window. (I see that is where it is now. Was there a specific reason it got moved?) Is there room to put the DD to the left of the sink?

Also, if you want a free standing table, you should find a way to make it work. If you turn the wine bar into a message center, it wouldn't need to be that wide or deep. 18" deep would probably be sufficient. Could you put the wine stuff in the pantry wall?

Erika,

The drawings are well rendered but since you don't have a floorplan with measurements, please make sure that your designer has done this to absolutely accurate scale (including counter depth, aisle width and real world sizes of appliances). A friend of mine had a designer sell her on a beautiful living room arrangement which looked great in the drawing but didn't actually work, leaving her to settle for something that gave her far too little seating.

You might be able (depending on measurements!) to put the prep sink and wine chiller in the island, and the other sink and dishwasher on the window side, then build a china cabinet around the window where the wine bar is now. That would take some of the storage necessity out of the island, I think. I know that theory says you have to store your dishes next to the washer to save steps, but I grew up with the carrying the dishes into the breakfast room and it's really not that big a deal (i.e., they should be near either the washer or the table!). Oh, btw, I don't know if you saw the suggestion to put a disposer in the prep sink to make it really useful. Seemed like an important thing to me (who's always had one large sink).

If you did the china cabinet thing, it could also house the message center, the toaster, and even snacks and breakfast cereal :)

Rhome's idea of shifting the oven is a good option b/c then you could shorten the island enough to fit in a separate kitchen table. Also, eliminating that attached island table will probably save you thousands of dollars in granite and cabinetry costs.

If you want the prep sink and cleanup sink locations swapped do it! You could put the cleanup sink under the window, and with the DD on the fridge side, they'll still be close to your kitchen eating location and dish storage.

Thanks so much everyone! I'm going to revise my floorplan to include measurements, and I'll try to post it later tonight or tomorrow.

rhome, my cooktop is induction, and my KD has told me I cannot have drawers underneath.

auch, I'm really not sure why she moved my main sink away from under the window. Maybe she thinks I spend a lot of time washing dishes? o.O I am going to try and get my main sink and DDs switched to that side.

plllog, I love the china cabinet around the window idea! I've never had a disposal in this house because we have a septic system. If I were able to find a suitable disposal, would I want one in the cleanup sink and prep sink both? Do you put your vegetable peelings down your disposals?

I'd check into the 'no drawers beneath the induction cooktop' thing. You might need to leave a blank space, like you would have for a sink, but then should be able to have a couple of drawers under that. I think there are plenty of people on these forums with drawers under the cooktop. Check the installation specs for the particular cooktop you'll use...more reliable than KDs word. More than one KD, like appliance salesmen, have given people here bogus or unsubstantiated information about such things. Also ask or do a search on the appliance forum for others with drawers under their induction cktops. It's unnecessary, I think, to waste a whole cabinet for the cooktop, unless you really like and will use the open shelves. All I can think of is all the dirt, dust, and pet hair that will gather there and how you need the space for other storage. It's worth checking into, I think.

I think your KD is wrong...we talked about induction and the only issue was that the induction cooktop was deeper than an electric cooktop so we would only be able to have 2 deep drawers rather than 1 shallow and 2 deep.

Check the specs for your cooktop.

Erika,

The two disposers was a suggestion I read on this forum. Makes sense :) I haven't cooked in a house with a septic system since I was 14 and visiting, and I don't even remember if there was a disposer. With the city sewer and my own pipes, I do put peelings down the disposer (carrot, cuke, onion, potato, eggplant, etc.--though actually some of that is stuff we eat more than peel!), but not heavy stringy stuff (celery, bean strings) or chicken bones, though you're supposed to be able to nowadays.

I actually don't think it's that big a deal to peel into the sink or a bowl then wipe out the peelings and put them in the compost or trash. And somewhere I still have the peelings strainer I used when I lived abroad up four flights :) But as I'm getting a better handle on my design(s) I'm adding in these great suggestions :) I think when we're expecting the whole family and have several people using the sinks that it would really help to have the disposer at the prep sink.

Interesting that your designer said the shelves were because of the cooktop--I assumed it was for visual interest (high, low, in, out). Same as the round seating counter (could have been square but round contrasts).

JC

ericanh, I like the look of your island with the round table but it's your decision if a table on it's own works better for you.
About a garbage disposal and a septic tank system is a "No No". We moved 3 years ago from a small town that uses a septic tank system and my dad (a "can fix anything" guy) told me I'd be asking for trouble. I bought my parents one many years ago and dad never installed it because of that reason........if it gets plugged the cost to dig up and repair is very high and usually if older pipes you uncover even more than u want. LOL they just gave us their 12yr old disposal, still in the box sealed, to put in our new kitchen. I'd ask the local town administration just to be sure.
Just my $0.02, I'd go with the big sink in front of the big window: ) and oil & spice pull outs next to the range in the funky angles to utilize the space.

In-Sink_Erator garbage disposal for septic tank systems

Information on the disposal

Ask The Builder article on the In-Sink-Erator septic disposal

erikanh
If you are still following this thread -
It would be very helpful to post the revised floorplan w/measurements - there is a lot going on in this space & w/o measurements it's difficult to give helpful advice

We're on a septic system, and we've had a garbage disposal for years with no problem. There are certain foods to avoid, and it's best to get a disposal made for use with a septic system--these grind the particles down smaller--but food is organic waste that any decent septic system should be able to handle fine. I read somewhere that using a garbage disposal is less stress on a septic system than adding another person to the family.