How about friands? No leavening and you can make them in any flavour you like.

Or a Tarta del Santiago? I’ve made them before and they are delicious.

Well, Colleen, I suppose they're possible. Let me just go google them, as I've never herd of either. :)

Ah. Almond and egg. It's the fruitiness I'm looking for. I also have a good Passover orange chiffon cake and the passed down the genertions banana cake. I had been planning rhubarb pie, but the rhubarb hasn't quite come in yet.

Thank-you for introducing me to both of these cakes! how do you flavor them? i saw on the friands just putting in a few mix-ins, but the recipes I checked were pretty basic.

Would an orange polenta cake fit the bill? https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2017/feb/02/how-to-cook-the-perfect-sticky-orange-cake

Floral, thank-you. That is a very similar cake and actually references Nigella's. And it has no baking powder, which answers that question, and it has the whipped eggs, which answers the other question, plus uses much thicker skinned/pith fruit, which answers the third! What it does not have is polenta! It has almond flour, like Nigella's cake. All the discussion in the article of different versions and different ingredients is much appreciated, and I think I'll do a mashup, using the info. On another occaision, I might even make the lots of syrup, polenta, Middle Eastern version.

Had to laugh out loud at the difference between UK and SoCal. The ”rare and wonderful” pomelos are easy to grow garden fruit here, and valued more for their appearance than flavor—but I'd bet one (more like half—they're huge!) would be great in this cake.

Polenta can't actually be used for Passover, at least in my community. No grains can. Some rule quinoa a ”seed” rather than grain, but it's still a ”little thing” used as flour, so many say no. (Some also allow GF baking powder, but we only do eggs.) In my family's tradition, we allow grains like rice and corn served whole as ”vegetables”, but not ground, so still no polenta. Nut flour, on the other hand is discernably nuts, so that's not a problem, other than my two nut allergic cousins who won't be there next week. :)

Your Paasover is grain free? I would not be able to hang wih no matzo. Can you just not have it for passover, or all the time?

Anywho... Could you maybe do a merigune cake? Like the ones where you make big merigune instead of cake layers and then put your fruit between layers. You can put ground nuts into the merigune if you like. And if you can, whipped cream is great between layers.

Floral, the article was about polenta cake! It's just that the recipe is for an almond flour version of what started as a traditional polenta cake, which makes it a great suggestion, along with all the answers I needed about Nigella's version. I'll be sure to check out the rest of the series after the holiday.

Beesneeds, at first I thought that was a wry joke, and laughed, then I reread and thought maybe you were serious, so in case you were, it's just a little lack of clarity. Sorry about that. I try to be even a little brief and get myself in trouble!

So for those who want to know, Passover laws, as interpreted by my community (every community, and every family, is just a little bit different, and tradition is respected), forbid all grains that are not the specific wheat which is kept completely free of moisture from harvest until it's milled and baked so that no wild yeasts can bloom. Once made into kosher for Passover matzah, the commandment is fulfilled, and one can break up the matzah to use as one will. (Accomodations are made for people with allergies, but there's no developed gluten in matzah—which is the point. GF ”matzah” is not kosher for Passover.) Some communities do not allow the finished matzah to get wet either, at least until the Seder, which puts a real crimp on a lot of festive cooking and baking, but we're supposed to be remembering when all had little and lived equally and simply. Yet, we are supposed to serve our finest foods and abundance in celebration, so it gets to be a balancing act.

The grain laws are strict because before machine made, matzah was not plentiful, and was very expensive, In old Europe and Middle East, they'd hang the last of the wheat in bags from the rafters around the chimney to keep it warm and dry all Winter, with someone to check constantly, turn the bags, keep the roof from leaking, etc. (You can still obtain this kind of matzah, and it's still expensive) Some people wanted to make more treats than money or availability could afford, so used rice flour, or other non-glutenous, but the rabbis found that they were forgetting the purpose in their festive baking and forbade it. Even ground fine into modern ”cake meal”, which gives as fine a texture as flour, the matzah has a toastiness of flavor, and a fundamental dryness, which carries through and reminds us of the Exodus. Some communities don't allow even egg rising goods. No air bubbles at all. Others allow GF baking powder, since the chemicals aren't on the forbidden list. We do eggs, which rise even if you don't beat them, and use their own protein, not gluten, to make their bubbles, but no BP which even without gluten is too much like leavening. Because potatoes are new world (not on the list) and clearly not grain, most communities allow potato starch in cooking, like for thickening a sauce. As I mentioned, in the traditions passed down In my family is that one can eat risotto or other whole rice dishes, or corn on the cob, or other non-glutenous whole grains, just nothing flour-like from them.

In theory I could make a delightful meringue confection like Beesneeds suggested, but I've tried similar and my cooking environment is too humid. What starts out crisp becomes a sticky mess. It's a lovely suggestion, though.

I might just misunderstand, thanks for explaining that. Maybe the folks who hosted when I went just observed different? There was for sure matzah- there was a thing about the youngest has to find it. We also had plushie-plagues and all got to read passages once we sat down. A lot of little drinkings of wine too. There was a rule about no eating at all before dinner, but after dinner and into brunch the next day there was for sure matzah eating going on. Big vat of matzah ball soup and a creamy layered veggie casserole with matzah instead of noodles called Passover surprise. A fish loaf of tinned tuna (and sometimes smoked herring:)) that uses matzah meal- I got the recipe and still make it today.

This was also a couple decades ago when my sister was dating a gent- they were the hosts. He and his buddies did the tradition from all being together on Long Island. Those guys had some seriously good grandma food going on. There was only 2-3 huge dinners like that, I probably didn't understand a lot of what was going on, I'm not of the faith. There was a mixed bunch of faiths of us outside the core guys. But ever since then I've associated Passover with Matzah. I had no idea.

Yes, indeed! You have it right! It is the matzah. There are some who insist that one consume at least one of the large old style or three of the modern squares each day (7 days near enough to Jerusalem to see the signal fires, 8 days in the diaspora to cover the whole time periods).

It sounds like the Seder you attended was Ashkenazie--Northern European ancestry, which is by far most common in the USA. What you described doesn't sound different at all, though there may be in execution. Most Seders are read by everyone in turns around the table, like you did. It's participatory. We're meant to feel like we ourselves were slaves and we paticipated in the Exodus. Functionally, it's the most important holiday, passing down the story, even to those who are guests or the family members who don't really care. The actual Haggadah, however, is only one page. The rest is elaboration, commentary and discussion, all of which are required, whether written out or not. The plushy plagues are fun for the kids, and a learning aid, but counting out the plagues is solemn. We remember the suffering and death, not just of our people, but the Egyptians and others in the area as well. Many have a tradition to spill out a drop of wine for each of the plagues as a sacrifice commemorating the suffering, while we rejoice in our freedom.

Technically, there's a time in the morning before the holiday begins, when one stops eating bread (wheat, etc.). When you come to the table you either don't eat until the blessings over the matzah, OR, you don't eat until the blessing over the greens, after which you can eat vegetables. We have lots of them on the table, what one might call crudites. Children below bar mitzvah age don't have to follow restrictions, so we also put out ”soup nuts”, little choux style crispies, from matzah meal, like mini-cream-puff croutons, before we start. The little ones like to play with them, and if they're restless hungry they're a lot happier munching them than a radish. :)

Four steps of the Seder are the cups of wine. Traditionally, they're filled to overflowing (”my cup runneth over”, i.e. abundance, more than enough), so often they're served in tiny cups that are the exact minimum measure you're supposed to consume (you can have more, but there is a cultural distain for drunkeness. Even on the two holidays when you’re supposed to drink freely, that's to pleasantly tipsy, not sloppy drunk, and this isn't one of those).

An important part of the Seder service is the last thing one eats. Early on, the leader breaks the ”second” matzah in two and sets aside the larger part for the end, usually wrapped in a napkin. At the end of the meal, after the dessert, when all are done eating, this broken piece of matzah is broken into bite sized parts, and everybody eats one, the last bite before breakfast the next morning. There's a ton of symbolism about restoring the whole, bringing the divided together, completing cycles, conclusions, etc. So, wily kids, long ago, would grab the wrapped matzah, which is essential for one of the 15 steps of the Seder, and hold it for ransom. This isn't really good, as it could get broken or dirty, and, while it's in fun, stealing and extorting are bad behavior. So parents figured to distract the kids from sullying one of the holy days with crime by hiding a wrapped piece of unimportant matzah earlier in the day, and offering a prize to whomever finds it. Usually, it's confined to the littler kids. A great way for them to run around gently and burn off restlessness, before the second half of the Seder, while the adults finish their dinners and coffee in peace. We always limit which rooms can be searched, and have a rule that nothing needs to be touched or moved to see it—though the kids have to contort themselves to get their eyes at the correct angle. :D Masking tape may well be involved.

The dipping of greens in salt water, which is one of the 15 steps, comes from Roman times, when vegetables dipped in vinegar or salt water was a common starter course. We use the salt water to symbolize the tears of the enslaved.

Many people still do a traditional multi-course meal with soup, fish, eggs, meat and veg, (sometimes a green salad), dessert, fruit and coffee. Or whatever the local traditions are. Many don't eat lamb because of past tragedy, while others prize caracul lamb (fetal lamb) as their Seder tradtion. When we have family by the dozens (i.e., pre-covid), we always have turkey and beef roasts or braises (or sous vide), for practical reasons. The exact timing doesn't matter. Everyone will eat one or the other (I'll make something vegan protein if warned, but the only one ever part of the family, just wanted a baked potato, which is dead easy).

I get bored with making chicken soup and matzah balls (dumplings), so I sometimes make matzah spaetzle, or stuffed matzah balls, or tomato soup, or some other riff, but always soup. I'm thinking asparagus this year, and maybe grilled mini-matzah balls. Things easy to do for a small group, which don't scale up well. My grandmother made fantastic gefilte fish, though otherwise she was a middling cook. Literally “stuffed”, it's a fish loaf or patties, usually served cold, and most commonly made from whitefish. I can't cook fish (allergy) or even reseason over heat the jarred kind, in the way my grandmother did when she couldn't make her own. I've tried to eliminate the fish course, but people complain, so I've done things like rolled slices of lox, or fishlets, which come in a jar and are tiny gefilte fish patties the size of quarters. They're not that great, but very cute, and one jar will feed everybody. Not available this year. We used to serve hard eggs sliced in salt water, which was traditional with the symbolic Spring egg on the Seder plate and salty tears of bondage, but the younger people don't like and won't eat it. I've taken to serving spicy deviled eggs. Equally symbolic, and they eat them. This year, it's mostly the elders, so I'm going to do devilled eggs a bit more on the salt side (capers) with bits of lox. The old folks like tradition bit don't eat much, so that covers both in a small morsel.

The rest is pretty basic, but a cake makes a nice ending to the meal. We usually have a big bowl of cut fruit, as well, but I'm thinking the citrus cake and maybe some sliced honeydew for refreshingness and color contrast is sufficient.

Ok. I wasn't around for before the big dinner. I don't know what they did for before. Or just didn't pay attention. I usually showed up the day before (traveled in and stayed the weekend) to help with cooking and stuff. Just ate whatever- all of it was good :) . So if that was missing I probably didn't notice it. I just remember all the set up and cooking and then all the sitting down and reading and all. I was the youngest first year (over legal drinking age at time). I still had a bit of a babysitter with one of the guys. I think most of us not in the know did. My guy made this really good brittle thing of matzah smeared with butter? brown sugar, chocolate chips.. and I think some nuts.

I'm not sure what blessing the greens is... but there were a few things we ate at the table. Some greens, horseradish, an amazing nut salad. Yes, veggie plates, pickled plates too. But that had always been part of childhood growing up as part of holiday buffet so I never thought about it.

Now that I think about it, the nut salad is what stopped them hosting Passover. My sis didn't know she had apparently picked up an alcohol allergy till the second or third Passover. Then she was making the salad and had a reaction. Later tried out each ingredient and figured out it was the wine. Then figured out other alcohol from there.

Gosh I'm so glad I'm learning more about the traditions and lore on accident here. Please fill me in more if you like. Do you mind saying what your ancestry is? I don't want to go too off topic here. But this is making me think in good ways :)

So back to dessert. In my family there is an Easter dessert of Pineapple Torte. Egg yolks and sugar into a custard, then fold in pineapple, then whipped whites. Fill shell and bake off in a springform. We used a shortbread or butter crust, but I bet you might know of a something else sort of crust that could work. It needs to be a sturdy par-baked crust.

ETA: somewhere in the dinner there was a gross moment of have to try the fish balls in a jar for the newbies. I declined after first year. I assume that was a guys prank on the newbies. But shows the kind of fun religious holiday kind of guys they were.

So, my tablet locked up, but the Submit button worked, so I did a submit and edit, p and I finished with a lot more to the previous. I might have overdone it—please don't feel obligated to read! no problem anout the thread. We don't have thread police here, and Floral’s article answered all my questions, plus added some interesting ideas, so I'm set for the dessert.

I'm mostly Ashkenazie, middle Europe, if that's what you wanted to know, but one of my grandfathers, a scholar, grew up in what is now Israel, and his family had a lot of Eastern influences as well, which is where lamb and rice for Seder come in. Both of my grandmothers were modern women, and I think their mothers as well, before it was ”modern”, so we nowhere have the tradition that the family must follow the husband's traditions. Frankly, I think that's just a rule for peace in the home (itself an important rule of Jewish life)—that is, if you can't agree on how things should be, that's the tiebreaker. :) That's not what's said, but I prefer to think of it that way,

So ”fish balls in a jar” might have been any number of things. Some jarred gefilte fish is fine. Some is pretty good. A lot is deeply disgusting. It's usually packed in its own aspic, which is fishy slime. Some people actually like eating it. I don't think you have to have fish allergies to find it revolting.

For Passover one is to be more strictly kosher than normal. I don't keep kosher daily (long divergence there, so I'll skip the explanations). I do try to keep the meal meat only, and avoid things that by their nature could never be kosher. Except, I couldn't keep the family out of the Matzah Toffee, which has butter. You make a toffee of butter and brown sugar, spread it over matzah, sprinkle liberally with chocolate chips, melt in a hot oven for a few minutes, spread the chocolate evenly with a spatula, then sprinkle with high end trail mix (nuts and dried fruit bits), melt for another minute. When cool, chill overnight on the baking sheet in the fridge. Break into bite sized shards and keep in an airtight bowl in the fridge. Some people call it Matzah Crack, not because you crack it into pieces, but because it's irresistable, and my family figure if it's down to coffee and fruit, it's not butter on the seder table. I haven't heard of the smeared with version you described—nor the canned tuna based fish loaf—but they're recognizable. :) So too is the strata made with layers of veg and matzah. And eggs. I invented one when I was young, which I thought was merely serviceable, and a former roommate called months later for the ”recipe”. As if there was one. ;) Luckily, I was young enough to remember it.

Blessing the greens is one of the 15 steps of the Seder, fairly early in the service. It's the parsley or other green herb dipped in salt water (for more see my previous, added-to, post),

The nut salad is called ”charoset”, and among other things symbolizes the mortar used by the Israelites in building for the Egyptians, There are all kinds of different charosets, some mostly fruit, others soupier, others more of a paste. Kind of Ashkenazie standard is apples and walnuts chopped together with wine, based on what was easily available in Northern Europe in early Spring. My father's way is one apple, lots of pecans, cinnamon and sweet concord grape wine, chopped slowly, with his big knife, adding more wine and cinnamon, bit by bit, so it gets cut right into the apples and pecans as they get minced. Then they're put in a container and covered with wine, in the fridge for a few days, with the occaisional stir, adding more wine as needed, as it's absorbed. Unbelieveably good! I can come close using a spring driven manual nut chopper, but nothing is like my father's big knife. I make an avocado charoset for my two cousins with nut allergies (eaten by all, since it's good), and a date and nut based one I learned here for variety. The blessings over the matzah are the standard one for bread (for bringing the grain from the earth) and one for the commandment to eat matzah. After that, we put bitter herb (the horseradish) symbolizing bondage and toil, on a bit of matzah, mellowed by the sweetness of the charoset added to it, and say the blessing for the commandment to eat bitter herbs.

Then there’s the Hillel sandwich which used to be a bit of lamb and a slice of horseradish between pieces of matzah (no, the earl of Sandwich was known for what he’d eat while gambling, but was hardly the first!), but since an interpretation in the 16th century of the common era said that eating lamb was a temple (the actual one in Jerusalem) thing, there's no lamb. It's one of the steps of the modern Seder, and some go just horseradish and a ”Whoa!”, which my family have always done, but there's nothing holy about horseradish. We have at keast two kinds of bitter herbs on the Seder plate, which might include kale, and popularly romaine, though since the lettuce blight and rise in production and consumption of romaine, it's just not that bitter anymore. Many people prefer a bit of bitter veg for this, understandably!

Beesneeds, you have a great memory for what you experienced. Following the really horrible false propoganda demonizing Jews, especially in Europe, we have a tradition to invite outsiders to Seder, to share the normal reality with them. How fun it must have been for those guys sharing with you and your sister!

Hi Plllog, I had typed out a reply to your question about friands flavours but I must not have hit submit :-(

I make lemon, maple pecan, raspberry and white chocolate (though dark would also be fine) and orange with a (on sale after Easter) solid little chocolate Easter egg or a Lindor ball in the middle.

It suddenly occurred to me- I have a recipe for Christmas cookies which was one of my mother's collection. I have no idea where she got it and the only time I ever saw it somewhere else was about thirty years ago on a website (now gone) about Maltese traditional recipes. Mom asked me only to pass these recipes on to family but she's been gone twenty years now and no one in the family is interested so if I don't pass this recipe in particular on it will die with me.

It has only ground almonds, sugar, egg whites and vanilla. You make a stiff meringue with the egg whites and sugar then add a LOT of vanilla. Then you use some of the meringue to make a stiff paste of the almond meal, which you then roll, top with some of the rest of the meringue, cut into fingers and bake.

Would you be interested in this recipe? I'd be pleased if someone wanted it, because as I said, it seems to be a very rare recipe and will disappear with me otherwise.

Thank-you, Colleen!! I would love to have the recipe. I've had something sort of similar but never baked one, and I adore traditional recipes. I'm honored that you want to share it.

So, when you flavor the friands, is it a piped filling? An addition to the dough? Something else? I've seen financiers, which they resemble, with piped fruit filling. The Wikipedia article says "popular in Australia and New Zealand". :) I was in Australia for a month in 1995, but I don't remember eating any desserts. If I did it was probably ordinary ice cream, not anything unique.

No, friands are made not unlike cupcakes but even easier. Recipes say not to whip the egg whites but I beat them by hand until they are a little foamy and everyone tells me my friands are the best they've had. Then you dump in all the other ingredients (melted butter, ground almonds, a little flour (so not good for this specific requirement but it would be worth experimenting with potato starch- I've used gluten free flour with success), powdered sugar and any flavourings and then pour it into cupcake molds and bake.

For the lemon or orange, it's the rind in the batter and the juice in a light glace icing. For the raspberry and white chocolate it's frozen raspberries and chunks of chopped chocolate in the batter and then three raspberries on top before baking. For the maple pecan the syrup and some chopped nuts in the batter and then topped with a whole pecan half before baking.

I bake for co-workers to snack on and this year it's all thin young women so not so much snacking, but the friands disappear very quickly :-)

Ah! Excellent info! I can picture it now, and easy to make several flavors in one batch. I'll definately give it a try. Great tip, too, on the soft whip on the whites. I'd think potato starch would work—it usually does—but since GF flour works, matzah cake meal should work fine. Many thanks!

This is another one that has got my mind boggling. Autralian Friands!!! In France, is a puff pastry containing a sausage or a slice of ham with some bechamel sauce!!! https://www.google.com/search?q=recettes+friands&rlz=1C1ASVC_enFR990FR990&sxsrf=APq-WBtsnm2XqEJHlP2VMU8MxQNXoBmoeg:1649603112864&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj-47-84on3AhVHJhoKHe2rBYIQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=873&dpr=1

Wow! Talking about drift! IC, I ate something like that in France decades ago. We stopped in a beautiful little town on a hill. There was a lovely bakery which had savory filled pastries that looked like some of your French captioned Google pictures. They made a delightful lunch. When I was in Australia, mostly in the outback, there were an abundance of ”sausage rolls”, but they looked more like English sausage rolls. This is fascinating!

A good sausage roll is a thing of deliciousness :-)

colleenoz, I would love the recipe!