Oh, I would never tell someone their result was terrible. I have a hard time not being polite. But I also have a hard time lying convincingly too, or at least I feel like I do. I feel like that thing on Times Square that scrolls the news is on my forehead revealing my inner dialog.

This is not even a situation I may be in frequently, but I think I am in an age group where people are getting work done and it's just a phase. Since Botox and filler are not permanent, I have told people I think it's too much, if that's what I think, if they ask. But I think if they are asking me they may already have doubts.

Actually when I do a procedure and the patient asks me what I think, if it looks good I say "It looks pretty good/ okay" or " I think it is working" and sometimes I will say "It's alright, it's not completely successful", if I don't think it was. I am not the biggest proponent of my own work either. Rarely am I 100% happy.

Yes kind of putting the ball back in their court really "Are You happy? Great."

I think if you re trying to be polite, but they are able to discern your disapproval simply because they know you well enough, that is kind of their problem. They asked your opinion, after all.

PS I have an uncanny ability to guess people's weight. Not due to an early carnival career or anything, but just because I am so obsessed with my own (to no good effect, but anyway...). I was part of a group at a spa one weekend, and people asked me to prove it, at which point i soon had the room in tears. Boy that was stupid. I will never give an honest negative opinion again.

I sympathize with your tight space and am glad not to have squeeze through that sticky wicket.

My most similar situation was when people whose talent i didn’t appreciate would ask me to hang their artwork in my store. At least I could plead a full schedule.

Pal, what is pointy eyed" Do you mean like a tight ponytail?

I only know one person who had fillers in her cheeks. We live in different cities and I knew what she already looked like and she is nice looking and about 70ish. In her normal state she passes for 50. She sent me the after picture and said she was very pleased. I told her she looked great but it was painfully obvious she had fillers which totally changed her looks.

I can point out cheek fillers a mile away and why women get them is beyond me. If they all were in the same room you'd think they were related. :)

Has the weird perfectly drawn on eyebrow stage passed yet? The one like Kim Kardashian? I think it's microblading. Another obviously fake procedure. And I want to do something with my brows so I don't have to fill in the little bare spots at the tail end. But you'll never see me with drawn on eyes.

My friend while super nice and a good friend at that, is vain. The younger women I know who do the Big Brown Brow are also vain.

I don't believe people when they ask for an "honest" opinion.

I have learned to say "There is only ONE opinion that matters, and that is YOURS. Tell me what

you're thinking? If you're happy, that is all that matters!" (big smile)

I am always afraid that "As long as you are happy" coming out of my mouth will be discerned as deflection. But maybe I think people pay too much attention to what I actually say.

It's interesting that I couple of times I have given my opinion that maybe they should go a little lighter on the botox or filler (I am finding in my small sample that a lot of people don't love their filler) anyway, I have had a couple women say "Yeah, my husband doesn't really like my Botox/filler either.'' One also recently added "He doesn't like my breast implants either, but I didn't get them for him".

Pal! You're the perfect person to ask. This morning I saw a closeup picture of Queen Elizabeth II and marveled at how smooth her skin is. When I was trying to find a picture of her I read this:

"While Elizabeth has never been a particularly vain woman, she does take good care of her skin and wears sunscreen and a hat outdoors. She also moisturizes with a tried-and-true brand of face cream, Cyclax, that has been around since 1896."

See if you can find a recent picture of her, but not when she's wearing black which means she's in mourning and has puffy eyes.

Not sure I believe hats and moisturizer did it and she in her 90's. I also don't think she had any cosmetic procedures either. England gets a lot of sun too and she's an outdoors kind of gal.

What do you think?

I’ve had work done…my nose in my 20’s, laser for roseacia + and some Kybella for my double chin. After my nose, I got a combo of looks great and/or it wasn’t necessary. the other two are a little less noticeable. I openly talked about it.

My take is if it’s about “lady-parts”, best to say nothing or fib. Lot’s of bad decisions with lady-parts. Also good work and bad decisions often go together with lady-parts..

Everything else, just take their lead. if they are fishing for complements and the work is iffy, and you can’t lie, then glad your happy followed with a quick question about the procedure. Deflects from the fact you didn’t say you loved it.

If they really want constructive criticism, ask spefically what they are questioning and be brief, but truthful with a suggestion. Even people who ask for truth don’t want to be left hanging.

And always remind them it’s anywhere from 6-12+ months before full results are realized. For me, that was especially true with my nose.

If you said "as long as you are happy" to me, I would automatically think you did not like or thought it was bad. But maybe that's just me, and maybe it is one of your coworkers.

My last neighbor (81yo) had something else done while we we living nearby. Easily her 3+ time for facial surgery. I asked a plastic surgeon about her surgery - her skin seemed to be on her skeleton (she is tall and thin, but so was my paternal grandmother). He said that most likey the time of her first plastic surgery was the old school version. He did say it is done differently now and avoids that skeleton wearing skin look.

A relative has breast implants. They are too big for the rest of her very thin body. But the numbers have to be what she thinks is the right number in her head - whether it's clothing size, weight, cup size or the age of someone she would consider dating.

I agree it is not a bad thing to tell someone that is asking if their Botox or filler might be too much.. But in my experience, saying something doesn't do any good. So I just bite my tongue.

I have always been upfront about any cosmetic procedures I've had. Just don't let Mtn guess my weight.

Mtn - I'm the same with clothing sizes...lots of working retail....

I am fortunate that I do not have bags under my eyes or lines in my forehead, but I made a point of taking care of my skin from when I was a teenager. My mother bought a lot of skin products for my sister (who is 1-1/2 years older), but she refused to use them, and so I did instead.

Also, when I was about 13, I decided not to smile anymore, partly because I was unhappy and depressed, and partly because I did not want crow's feet, and today I still do not have them.

My mother would criticize me for being vain, but I was no more vain than she was, and I believe in gender equality. Also, I think a certain amount of vanity is healthy or helpful, especially when one takes an effort to stay in shape and maintain their looks. I've more or less given up on this in the past few years, and I never should have.

In my early 40s, I had a bicycle accident that left a scar above my left eye on the extreme left side of my forehead. I was trying to jump a curb and landed head first on some asphalt, which had effect of creating a sort of "tattoo", the the doctors called it. The scar is completely white and not that large, but at St. John's Hospital in Santa Monica, where I had my stitches, I was not allowed to be discharged until I interviewed with a plastic surgeon with regard to removing the scar after my stitches had healed. I protested, but I was told that "This is Los Angeles" and that everyone here has to look as beautiful as possible! I did not intend to be "on screen" but that did happen later anyway, and I interviewed with the plastic surgeon.

At my regular doctor's office in Pacific Palisades, there are many brochures advertising Botox and plastic surgery. It's fairly common here, and so it seems normal to me.

I now have to see a dermatologist in Santa Monica to check for melanoma (which I have from time to time), and he also makes most of his money from plastic surgery. I asked him about the scar above my eye, and he told me that it makes me look "tough", which is the look I was going for when I rejected the plastic surgery. However, because of his extensive experience in plastic surgery, I get great results after the treatment he gives me for melanoma or carcinoma, but I've only had carcinoma on my back.

I'm generous with compliments for people who have had plastic surgery, whether I think it was a good idea or not. I believe that they need special support if the surgery has not gone well, and I would not want to make them feel any worse than they already do.

I worked part time as a fashion model when I was in my 20s (even though I am average height), and I made 15 times as much doing that as I did in other jobs. This meant that I did not have to work that much and could take long vacations in the winter, and winter in San Francisco was way too cold and wet for me.

I was walking with a neighbor and she asked, "Do you draw/color your eye brows?" Yes. She said, "You have eye brows. So why would you color them in?" I said the coloring is uneven and not filled in heavily enough. She seemed satisfied with that answer and said, "It looked as if I had them professionally done". 😊 A nice way of saying she doesn't approve....but she can't change me.

People notice everything! I can stop coloring them in, if prominent eyebrows become out-of-style. If I'd tattooed them....no. With surgery....it's for life! Nice is always the high road.

I'm generous with compliments for people who have had plastic surgery, whether I think it was a good idea or not. I believe that they need special support if the surgery has not gone well, and I would not want to make them feel any worse than they already do.

This

@Lars you have the best stories!

Re: Queen Elizabeth, although she may go outdoors, she probably gets very minimal direct sun exposure. She is always fully dressed, wearing a hat, stocking and makeup. Nothing was ever really directly exposed, and not for very long.

Well part of the cultural shift that I am talking about is not so much "What do you say?" Because I think most people are going to try to be complimentary, but that we say anything at all. I don't think it was all that long ago that you basically pretended it didn't happen. I would still like to pretend that it didn't happen, no matter how good it looks.

I have very little knowledge of plastic surgery and haven't had any myself. I have contemplated a few things when looking at my appearance and wondering if they might be an improvement, but never so far as to actually have a consultation. I wear only mascara as far as makeup goes so permanent makeup has never been a consideration either.

I do think plastic surgery is much more widely accepted vs something to be kept secret as much as in the past. I do have one family member who had breast augmentation and it certainly was no secret. She let us all know ahead of time that she was saving up for it and there was certainly no hiding it when she had it done. She's very lovely (both before and after) and has seemed quite happy with the results, which is really the important thing. She is in her 30s now and has told me that she regularly gets "preventative botox" to keep from getting wrinkles. I'd never even heard of the concept, but I do really wonder about injecting a toxin starting at such a young age.

I have a difficult time lying to someone's face if they are someone I care about. So I do think I would really struggle if someone close to me asked for a genuine opinion on plastic surgery that had already been done and I did not like it. Off the top of my head, I think I would try to answer their question with a question along the lines of "Well, how do you feel about it?" rather than answering the question, if at all possible. I imagine I'm lucky that I haven't (yet) had the problem of being asked my opinion on someone who has had fillers done. Personally I'd be uncomfortable telling someone, even if it looks bad. With fillers or other temporary (I think?) procedures, I'd probably wait until they were thinking about doing it again and then suggest that I like how they're looking with the fillers wearing off, but only if they brought it up. Otherwise, I'd probably try not to say anything. I could be wrong, but I feel like plastic surgery is most often about the person feeling better about how they look and I would worry that any criticism I might give would cause more harm to their self confidence.

I tell everyone they are beautiful and I love seeing them smile. But then I rarely get pestered with specifics. I would never say anything negative especially about something that can't be changed and I wouldn't offer an opinion unsolicited except something along the lines of "You look so happy and cheerful today!" or "That's a beautiful nail polish color!" I love your handbag etc.

Pal, i live out on the Main Line so I have seen a lot of plastic surgery over the years. Two people I know well had the full on face lift and it was all I could do not to gasp when i saw them. I hope I did not give myself away when my eyebrows shot up. They never said a word and neither did I. Of course, I may not have noticed the really good work.

Getting botox and fillers is getting to be like going to the dentist, just something you do to take care of yourself. I haven’t done it but I have been tempted. At this point I am falling apart so fast, I’m not sure I could keep,up.

I agree that eyelid lifts do not look good on men.

I just re-read your original post. @palimpsest, these people are pointing out plastic surgery that they think you should have?? Wow. That seems absolutely, unbelievably rude. You go right ahead and be honest. Sounds like they deserve any honesty you wish to give, especially if they ask you.

Side note, I noticed my right eyelid was drooping a tiny bit little last year (ptosis?) and was most noticeable when I was tired. I'm in my late 30s. I've lost some extra weight this year and suddenly my eyelid does not seem to be drooping anymore. I have no idea why. Last year I just assumed it was something to do with aging and/or stress, but now I'm even more confused.

I live in a suburb of Salt Lake City, Utah. Apparently we have the second highest number of plastic surgeons per capita in the country. Higher than Los Angeles. I suspect that I am not very good at recognizing plastic surgery when I see it.

Well, I feel better about my dermatologist's office. All the cosmetic services they offer pay the bills. But, it is a bit disconcerting to me that the admin staff all seem to use the cosmetic services, so they all look alike. And too perfect.

What would Miss Manners say? Seems like talk about money is rude and in someways talking about cosmetic surgery is bragging about all the discretionary money one has to spend on one hand. I miss the days when people were modest and kept private what is private. We are all so out there ready to have it all on public display. Remember when women were a mystery??? I feel this way about tattoos. Seems like they are ART, they are expensive, but people get worked up when you are staring at them. WE shouldn't be rude and tell the truth but they can put us on the spot and ask???? Kenny Rodgers RUINED himself. There is no truthful was to respond to what he did and not hurt. No one ever asks 'how do you like my new__________' and wants anything but reassurance!!

@pricklypearcactus, well the comments about what procedures I could have were not really spontaneous comments saying I needed plastic surgery. More like the one woman who had some really good work done under her eyes said "You know if you wanted to do something about the bags under your eyes, you should go to [the person who did hers] because you would not really be able to tell, it would not look like you had surgery." More like they did something and they would recommend it. That's kind of the way some things are here, we have a patient who does Botox and she will say right out "I could do some Botox right there and you would not have that _____". It's all kind of passed around because we work in health related fields I guess.

@dedtired, I work out there part time and yes there is a lot of plastic surgery of all skill levels. But I think there is a sort of person who wants their plastic surgery to be obvious unlike how it used to be. Looking like oneself is no longer than important I guess. I had a patient who, the first time I saw her I thought "Wow this is really unfortunate plastic surgery" but it turns out is was reconstructive surgery and for the level of skeletal trauma she had suffered the results were actually really good. And then I thought, "She is really lucky she lives in a place like this" because really you see people who want this result electively.

@arcy_gw, --Is talking about money considered rude anymore, in the big scheme? I am not so sure. We are living in an age of ostentation and in-your-face conspicuous consumption that I think is surpassing the Gilded Age of the turn of the last century. Unfortunate, but I feel like flaunting your discretionary income in the faces of others is the thing to do, even if you are working class and save up to buy a designer bag or have to have the latest phone.

Do people even notice what kind of phone someone has anymore? I don't think so.

LV used to be "the" bag to have. Now, everyone and their sister owns them. Not being a label addict, I could care less. But if it's their thing, I don't see anything wrong with it and enjoy seeing their finds. Like @1929Spanish-GW - I love seeing her vintage clothing and bet she rocks them! It would just be too much pressure for me.

What I do not like are duck lips. Why doesn't the person see overfilled lips as duck lips? Do they not ever look from the side? I have very small lips, like seriously small. But I would never do filler.

So many actors/actresses go overboard with plastic surgery - Kenny Roger, Michael Jackson to name two. Is it a bad surgeon or just too many surgeries? Joan Rivers looked okay, but could have stopped before the last facelift. At some point in time, one just needs let the aging process progress naturally.

I would still like to pretend that it didn't happen, no matter how good it looks.

For the most part, that is how I would feel about it. If somebody had work done, for whatever reason, and wished to discuss it, I would be interested in maybe one conversation at most. A you look great, talking about the doctor, or whatever. After that, that would be the limit of my interested and I would prefer to move on to other topics. On some levels, I can understand the desire for some work, especially as I get older and see the beginnings of change. There are other levels of work that I cannot relate to, but it's like a lot of other things, where if that's what you want and you have the money to do it, I figure it's no skin off my back but again, I have no desire to engage in conversation about it. If I cannot avoid the conversation, I would follow the protocol that is always followed in such situations, politely listen, add a few cursory comments and move on when I can politely do so.

I am not disparaging the very existence of designer clothing or bags. But for the Kardashians a conspicuous display of wealth could be buying a car that cost $1M to give to someone they are dating, for someone it could be buying a ticket to go into space. Because part of this sort of thing is everybody else knowing about it.

What I am talking about is that the bag or the phone may actually represent a significant portion of their income within a certain class. I have some patients who in order to meet a number of guidelines to recieve certain benefits can't make more than $13,500 in a year. For them, if they are "status" minded, and a minority of them are, having something like a certain phone or a certain bag or jacket can be a very big deal even if they spend 10% of their yearly income on it, and that happens occasionally.

Actually one of my neighbors growing up had eye surgery and ended up with the Kenny Rogers effect. But he had extremely heavy monolids and it got to the point he could barely keep his eyes open without fatigue. I am not sure the startling result could have been completely avoided.

Pal, i may need the name of the best local plastic surgeon! Glad i know someone who has seen it all.

I recently bought a new phone (pixel 6) and the only person who noticed and commented is a girl from a very poor family, all government housing/benefits etc mother former addict. This girl has an iphone although last year I filled up the car with gas for them.

I'm cracking up at the BIG BROWN BROW. I don't see a lot of it, and most of what I do see is the younger girls who haven't learned they don't need to follow trends, especially with brows LOL. My brows get a little sparse in places and I use a brow gel, which is perfectly natural looking. You can do your brows without looking like a Kardashian.

@Oakley yes! Staying out of the sun can make such a difference! It is one of the main things that age skin. I wish my mom had not let me run wild outdoors and bake on the deck with NO SUNSCREEN, but things were different then (sorry mom!). Our besties, their younger DIL (early 30's) has the most gorgeous, unmarked, not a line or wrinkle in sight, skin. It's almost creamy looking. She is not a redhead, but has some auburn in her hair and her mother was religious about teaching her to care for her skin. She always wore sunscreen, covered up, didn't sunbathe, etc. Her skin is beautiful.

As far as people having face-lifts, etc. I really don't know anyone personally (not that has shared anyway) that has had more work done than an eye lift, etc. But recently I overheard an exchange from some young women (all under 30 or 30 at the most) talking about botox, etc. that they use. Beautiful young women who do not need to start all that this young.

@Bumblebeez SC Zone 7 perhaps someone gave her the phone?

No, the mother bought it along with a new Galaxy for herself. It's a poverty mindset.

I have a hard time telling the truth when something has already be done ex. surgery, treatments etc. If they can be easily be undone or modified I might be politely honest. and give a small suggestion. If there is no going back I would simply say "you look lovely." Are you excited about the change?" Or maybe leave that last part out. I would just want to know what their thoughts on their new look were. I can be too curious for my own good!

I seriously doubt many people choose plastic surgery because they are flaunting wealth.

A phone is not the thing. I think in our society a cellphone is a necessity. I had a discussion about, I guess, the poverty/lower class mindset with a patient. He is very nice, very intelligent, and very wealthy and I think that since he grew up lower middle class that he still retains some insight as to what it's like to be "poor", but I think too much has really changed since he was young.

Just as an example he thinks everyone should have the highest deductible health insurance and pay for routine care out of pocket. That most insurance is wasted on nickel and dime things, nothing too serious . In theory this makes a lot of sense and I agree on that level. Why should you pay $1000 a month for a couple wellness visits that cost at most a couple hundred dollars? When I asked him what he thought a reasonable out of pocket was for healthcare every year was, he said that he would be willing to risk about $50,000 a year for a medical expenses because most of the time this never happens and people are throwing away $10,000 or more every year on insurance that mostly does not get used. And he figured that anybody, everybody should really be able to pay $5000 out of pocket a year and not be forced to have it spent on insurance they don't use. (He at least acknowledges that he could risk a lot more money that most people). I digress, but that's to explain his own mindset.

He said something about poor people, especially homeless people having cell phones, and I said that for $100 a month say, it is possibly the only real physical address they have. They have access to things virtually, email may be the only consistent way to reach them, they can be contacted by family and their social workers and so forth. And say they gave up their cell phones and saved $1200 year, could they rent an apartment for that? He said he never really thought about it that way.

I agree pal but you don't have to have the most expensive cell phones.

"seriously doubt many people choose plastic surgery because they are flaunting wealth."

I agree, it's not really a cause and effect thing, and not everybody who has plastic surgery is wealthy by a long shot.

What I was saying that there has been a shift from people being relatively discreet about a lot of things and people just putting everying out there for public consumption-- and flaunting wealth, among other things, is just another part of it. I have been on the receiving end of all sorts of information about someone's husband's problems with his sperm count or motility and all sorts of things as if it the weather people are talking about. More amd more people just don't keep things to themselves any more.

Pal, I agree.

But I was responding to this from Arcy:

Seems like talk about money is rude and in someways talking about cosmetic surgery is bragging about all the discretionary money one has to spend on one hand.

@Bumblebeez SC Zone 7, yes 100%.

But it's sometimes hard to discern what the difference in cost between one vs the other would net them. I am not condoning the behavior, but when you have next to nothing, saving a percentage of what you do have still doesn't add up to much and probably seems rather pointless. There are all sorts of problems with money management that could be discussed.

Thanks Alison. I admit to being into labels, but not logos. Would never carry an LV bag.

I was given a large (for me) collection of designer wear and sold almost everything with a promonient logo. I would never have been able to purchased all of these beautiful things - even on the resale market - and am open about my gratitude.

Between this extremely generous gift and getting to my mid 50’s, a switch went off with permission to make more daring choices. So much so, that it’s kicking off a side hustle idea I’ve had for years.

I do think its an interesting when ”not-impoverished” people talk about how those in poverty spend their money without also talking about how we - as a society - can help improve their circumstances. It’s a very different discussion than my 21 year old self spending 50% of my lower income on clothes where I worked <- true statement.

I can give two specific examples of poverty and the system: One of my patients is a college graduate, used to live in Manhattan and had a decent enough job to afford to live in his own one bedroom apartment in a nice part of Manhattan. Things kind of fell apart for him on a number of levels (and drug abuse was Not a part of it). He is one of my patients who can't make over $13,500 per year, which is poverty level where he now lives. He has a job which requires his former skills but he can't work full-time for a number of reasons, one of which is that he would need to make at least triple the $13,500 to live exactly how he does now with no assistance mostly because of medical and prescription costs. The other is a patient who made less than $1000 over the amount he was "allowed" to make and for the next year incurred $6000 in additional expenses just because of medications he could "now afford to pay for because he made above $___". It's not all people just lying around watching cable.

You never know the true circumstances until you've "walked a mile in someone else's shoes".

Experience says most people most of the time are not telling anyone what their true opinion is. Most people most of the time are kind and generous, doing their best not to make waves or hurt feelings. Doesn't matter what is the subject, something positive will be responded. Why anyone truly believes any of these platitudes is a mystery to me. YOU aren't being honest why does one assume anyone else is!?? My most honest answer to direct questions of this nature "What matters is what YOU think and if you are happy then who cares what I or anyone thinks!"

@palimpsest can we get an update? Maybe I'm weird, but I'm curious if healing time has helped the plastic surgery look better for your coworkers. I promise I haven't been thinking about it for the last 2 months, but saw this post pop up again and wondered.

@pricklypearcactus, of the three co-workers who have had facial plastic surgery recently,

I would call it about 33%. One has had several procedures done over the years and all have been done in a very directed sort of manner: fat bag removal under the eyes, etc, and the latest one was a neck lift. Very well done, not too much, not trying to look younger. Many people may not even notice it.

The second one has been kind of a botox and filler junkie for a while and while her work was not over the top, I don't like it. Her eyes are pointy and they never were before. She doesn't look like a younger version of herself, she looks different. Whatever she did to her lips is okay.

The third woman looks like a freak. She went from having a normal to slightly big nose to Latoya Jackson, I am not exagerrating, and she looks like she is making that duck lip face. And she has vaguely startled look and like it might be hard to actually keep her eyes closed. Some of this will probably settle in a bit over the years but her nose is ruined for ever. I think she looks much worse than she did before surgery. Not younger, not better, not just different.

Oh wow, that's really sad that 2 of 3 are worse for having had some of the procedures. I wonder if the 3rd woman is happy with the result or regrets it. I am not very knowledgeable or at all experienced with plastic surgery, but I wonder at times if it's a mistake on the part of the surgeon or a matter of the client wanting to change a particular feature in a way that does not fit their face as a whole.

I saw someone last week that I haven't seen in probably 8 months. She's always been naturally beautiful. In her 20s she got substantial breast augmentation and in her early 30s she told me she started doing botox to prevent wrinkles. She's also taken up body building and seems to have kicked that effort into high gear since I saw her last. She is still very beautiful but has such a fake / plastic quality about her these days that it took me a bit by surprise when I saw her. I know she's worked very hard to achieve these results. I do wonder how long term botox use will impact her.

Well as discussed, I don't think how others feel about it is important, unless maybe you are a celebrity and people will criticize you openly. The subtlety person is very happy with hers. I think the pointy eyed person is happy with hers. I have no idea what the person who I think is messed up feels about hers and I am not ever going to broach that subject. It's none of my business really.

You are absolutely right that what's most important is that the person who has had the work done is happy. Whether it surprises us as observers or we like or dislike it doesn't really matter. I think it all just makes me curious since I am not very knowledgeable. While I don't have any plans to get any work done, I have to admit it has crossed my mind before. I find myself sometimes looking at my appearance and thinking "what if I changed this?". Even as I work on my own fitness and diet, I sometimes wonder if others view the changes positively.