I appreciate the warning about Double Delight. I almost got rid of it last year and would not have been sad to see it dead to be honest because it is such a wimpy grower. The only reason I left it was because I didn't need its space, and then it did bloom with such an amazing fragrance. I won't be sad either way.

Ann that's awesome that you got Just Joey to root! I tried to start the broken pieces of mine but it was beyond saving.

Working in the yard today and got to see some more survivors!

Sexy Rexy, Apricot Twist, Snow Pavement, and Jeanne Lajoie have pretty much all their cane left. A smidgen of damage on the tips, may not even bother pruning it.

Sadly America, Honeymoon, and Twilight Zone joined the ranks of the definitely dead. They were in a series of large planters, and I've concluded that what killed them along with Coffee Bean, Le Petit Prince, and Perfumed Breeze was not enough drainage in the pots. When the freezes came, the bottom holes clogged up with ice and it wasn't able to drain, so the top filled up with water which then froze everything into a solid block of ice and split the canes down into the crown. Lesson learned: bigger holes for drainage. Similar size planters with bigger drainage holes had complete survival, sitting right next to the ones that died and exposed to identical conditions.

Joey: thank you for the info. of how poor drainage & ice can cause the top to be a block of plugged-up ice. I'll make sure that the water can drain fast when I dig a hole. There's a research on how soil freeze in the winter. Some details I remember from that study:

1) half-decomposed organic matter is bad inside planting hole, poor winter survival with such.

2) Frozen clay on top is a better insulator than sand, but sand is best at bottom of the hole for fast drainage.

3) For every -10 degree drop, frost goes down 1 foot.

Joey: Is your Twilight zone grafted or own-root. My 6th-year own root Twilight zone is the most vigorous & most blooms in 4 hrs. of morning sun. It has cluster-roots and need lots of acidic rain & likes my soaking wet clay.

How did Let Freedom Ring (own-root) survive your winter? My 2nd Firefighter (from High Country Roses) didn't survive last year winter despite BEING INSIDE MY UNHEATED GARAGE. I read tips on winter-survival and folks advise burying THE ENTIRE pot under the ground, and pile wood chips on top.

At 4" below ground (with 1 foot of winter-protection above), the temp. is constant 32 F, which is better than fluctuating temps. inside my garage, from 32 F to 10 F.

Plus roses in pots, being buried OUTSIDE gets rain or snow to keep roots moist.

It's a pain to water roses inside my unheated garage in the winter.

I wish I had kept those 3-gallon buckets that had a leak, I could easily use them as pots. Simply drill lots of holes at bottom, plus easy to carry with handles on the pots.

My Twilight Zone was own root, from High Country Roses. It was nice and healthy going into winter but unfortunately fell victim to my mistake of not enough drainage in the 20gallon planter. If I grow it again I will plant it in the ground and expect it to do fine, it has Ebb Tide for a parent. Ebb Tide has come back for me three years in a row now and my mother in law in zone 4 also has one.

Let Freedom Ring survived my winter with some dieback but there is green cane at the base. It has a slight hint of tea mixed with its raspberry fragrance but I think it lasts better in a vase than Firefighter. Firefighter gave me 7 days looking nice while LFR was 10 days with amazing fragrance the whole time. If you are looking for highly fragrant roses I think it's a good option.

Adding another rose to the list of complete survival, Rose de Rescht is budding out to the very tips, there is no dieback at all. This one is also planted furtherest from the house and in the least sheltered spot, so it had no cover and nothing to block the wind from any direction. I'm very glad it's done so well as I think it has one of the best fragrances in my garden.

Thank you, Joey, for info. on Rose de Rescht. I inspected my garden today. Annie L. McDowell didn't suvive my 4th winter (same with a zone 7a person). Princess Charlene de Monaco has only 3 inch. of green cane, compared to last winter of 3 feet of green cane. Tons of freezing rain in March was hard on chunky & woody hybrid teas.

The roses under a roof-overhang that blocks 80% of rain have the best winter survival, like Munstead Wood green to the tip. Same with the neighbor's hybrid teas under a roof overhang, with at least 1 foot of green cane.

Steve in his "Second-guessing-my-order" wrote this: "I am planning to leave the pots outside in the winter. I know it's not ideal, but it's the situation I have to deal with for now. I just threw out my 1-year-old Zephirine Drouhin rose after deciding it wasn't coming back to life. It was too happy in the mild early winter we had, and it leafed back out in January. A couple of freezes put a stop to that, and the plant never recovered. It never even got below 10F as far as I know. ZD "should" be hardy to much colder temperatures, but I guess it just hit the plant at the wrong time." Steve.

From Straw: That's what happened in my zone 5a this past winter: In Feb., it dipped down to -20 F but roses still had green cane (at least one foot of green cane on Dee-lish, Princess Charlene de Monaco, and Sweet Mademoiselle).

Then we had tons of freezing rain mid-March, and the above died down to below 1/2 foot of green cane, and those that start out with 3 inch. of green cane end of Feb, became dead in mid-March.

My Zeph. Drouhin is 8th-year own root, and it WAS NOT affected by freezing rain in March since it's planted on a steep hill (water drains down fast), plus I buried it below 5 inch. of rock-hard clay which protected the crown from the acidic & freezing rain.

Now on May 5, Zeph is green to the tip (4 feet) with zero dead branches.

Today I pulled out a rooting which was exposed to freezing rain in April (tons of rain, then temp dropped to 20 F). The upper cane is green, but near the root turned black, so I threw that rooting away.

The potting soil inside was dense and slowed down the drainage despite tons of holes drilled at bottom of pot. I should had made that potting soil drains faster by mixing in gypsum prior to planting that tiny rooting.

I contemplate storing pots outside in my zone 5a, and some ways to buffer against tons of freezing rain in March & April which corrode the root (NOT by extreme cold, but by tons of acidic rain that freezes and crack the crown).

1) Fast drainage, such as air-pots or elevated on bricks.

2) Piling up bags of soil into a tall wall around pots (on sale for 1/2 price in late fall). That's to insulate -20 F temp in Feb. in my zone 5a.

3) Pile up alkaline horse manure (pH 8) or wood chips on top of roses to buffer against the acidic rain (pH 4.5) here in Chicagoland.

4) Cover roses with double-layered Yard-Waste bag (one inside another) which help some rain to float out, rather than sinking down to corrode roots, or crack roots when temp. drops.

In late March, after that freezing rain, I asked husband to burn a big pile of branches.

He was annoyed since I piled up pruned perennials & tomato branches on top of rose branches in a tall heap (2 feet tall). At the bottom of the heap, I found roses' canes still green from last pruning in late November.

The freezing rain did not turn those green canes black, since they were buffered by a heap of of branches on top, same with the own-roots which I put plastic pots around (bottom cut off), then piled up wood chips inside up to 1 foot.

The wood-chips (up to 1 foot high) prevented fluctuation of temp which crack roots, or freezing & acidic rain that turns cane blacks.

That's great info about the wood chips!! I have a bloom on my Zepherine Droughin already (it was a spring bareroot) and I'm so excited to see how it looks after all your lovely pictures.

Joey: Happy to hear that Zeph gives a bloom on a spring bareroot. My Zeph. is green to the tip, but is still growing leaves right now. Last week was cold at 35 F at night, but this coming week will be 80, 90, 93, 96 F starting this Monday to Thursday. I need to plant my tomatoes tomorrow Sunday (Mother's day) when the temp is nice at 69 F.

I will NEVER, NEVER plant any roses in the ground (such as bare-root) until May when there's no risk of freezing rain.

Today Sat. May 7, my husband saw a bunch of bare-roots sprout healthy leaves & canes in the bin at Menards for $5.56 each. He asked me "Why do the 2 bare-roots you planted in the ground mid-April haven't sprouted any leaves yet?" I told him that freezing rain in April stunted those bare-roots.

Years ago I planted annual flowers (petunias, geraniums) in mid-April before and they stunt for good, due to the cold temp. So I learn to plant annual flowers on or after Mother's Day in May, when it's safe from frost. The store here don't even carry geraniums nor impatient this weekend, they don't arrive until next week (mid-May).

I went to Menards & HomeDepot today. Menards have roses (bare-root) for 1/2 price at $5.56. I bought Oklahoma and Fragrant cloud. Back in April 1st, Menards had roses for $5 each ... I bought Pink Peace and Blue girl, but freezing rain in Mid-April, plus temp at 20 F might either stunt or killed both.

Lesson Learned, I will never plant bare-root until Mother's Day when it's safe from frost.

I love Yolande' de Aragon from Roses Unlimited. First bloom is the best scent among my 150 fragrant own-roots !! I sniffed Julia Andrew and Topaz Gold at HomeDepot .. very light scent, NOT WORTH it.

Once I sniff Yolande' de Aragon, I lean toward Old Garden Rose. The scent was so wonderful that it stuck on my face & skin and I can smell it for 15 minutes afterwards. Pure heaven. Yolande' de Aragon lasts twice longer in the vase than Duchess de Rohan. Both scents are similar, but Yolande's de Aargon scent is more powerful (one bloom can perfume the entire room). Will post pics. later.

I agree with you about the stunted bareroots! I picked up several at Home Depot and one--Eternal Flame--was planted out in the garden, only just now getting leaves. The others I put in pots and had them under shelter and they are growing well and setting buds and are over a foot tall already. The Duchess de Rohan cutting which went directly into the ground is growing leaves, but slowly, while the one in the house is the one with the bud. I'm still not sure exactly what variety the 'Northern Red' I found at Home Depot could be, but it has several clusters of multiple buds. Hopefully it will be a lavish bloomer.

I didn't think either had survived but just today I noticed that both my original Queen Nefertiti and the cutting I took last summer have new growth on them! It's so nice to have progress on some after all the deaths and pruning off dead cane. Sweet Mademoiselle lost about three feet of cane...but I'm really glad to have her alive at all after the crazy fall and winter that I put my roses through.

Joey: I'm happy that you got a new cutting of Queen Nefertiti along with your original. How's your Eternal Flame doing? I saw St. Tropez in a pot with many blooms but I was NOT impressed with its scent so I didn't buy it, I bought Perfume Breeze instead.

I post many pics. of my zone 5a winter survival for May 19, 2022 in mmmm post below:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6266902/putting-some-miracle-grow-on-the-roses-may-18-2022#n=21

Funny how the $5 Pink Peace (grafted on Dr.Huey) which I bought 10 days ago is sprouting leaves better than some of the expensive own-roots (bought last year) which died through this winter. See below growth on Pink Peace, pic. taken May 19 like the rest of my own-root roses in above link:

Thank you JoeyWyoming for sharing. My northern NV climate is less severe temperature wise but is so arid, I find your survival lists informative and applicable to my locale.

Straw - I agree with your “late” Mothers Mother’s Day planting schedule. We had a hard freeze this May and all my stone fruits were wiped out + some annuals took it in the shorts because I jumped the gun. my 7’ double delight (on Huey) frost burned and is looking pretty rough.

unfortunately, even if I wanted to bury my roses I’d need a backhoe to get through the caliche and rocks. I mound some compost / soil / leaves around the base and hope for the best. :)

Eternal Flame is very slow going. The squirrels aren't helping! It looks like it's barely breaking dormancy but it's been trying to leaf out for a month and a half now. I'm not pinning hopes on its long term survival.

I was particularly impressed with Sexy Rexy, Hula Hoop, Ring of Fire, Moonlight in Paris, and Abraham Darby this year. I expected them all to struggle, they aren't ones you hear about with a lot of cold zoners, but they've done really well. Another one I'm happy with this spring is Amiga Mia. She's going into her third year now and finally putting on some good growth with new canes. The last couple years she's leafed out on existing cane and then just sat. At least the existing cane didn't die back, but hey. At least she's growing now.

HighDesert Z 7a I have dolomitic large rocks (the size of grapefruits) at 2 feet deep. Golden Fairy Tale rose has bad winter-kill, down to a short green cane. I dug it up yesterday May 19 and found 3 large rocks at 2 feet deep. So I need to dig at least 2.5 feet deep to check for big rocks that slow drainage, resulting in poor zone 5a winter survival.

It took me 1 hour yesterday to dig that hole bigger, I threw away at least 100 lb. of rocks & bad clay from just one planting hole, lost 1.5 lb. just by one day of hard work in the garden. A sharp shooting shovel or LONG spade works wonder in digging out those rocks & cement clay at bottom.

Straw, I see your grapefruit rocks and raise you this thing, LOL.

most of ours are grapefruit to football size. We had intended to reroute the irrigation line here. Husband kept digging it to ”see how big it was”.

It’s been like this 2 years. I’m not allowed to backfill it in so he knows where it is. I pick my battles. We use a pinch point bar a lot to dislodge rocks.

@HighDesert Z 7a that's quite a rock!! Around here you could sell it for a hundred bucks as a garden feature!!

HighDesert Z 7a Your pic. is wonderful !! It made me laugh since I get rocks like that too.

I broke 2 shovels from prying rocks from below.

joeywyomingzone4 Those blasted squirrels that eat your Eternal Flame. That's why I bought the tall & spiky Air-pots so squirrels and chipmunks can't climb up. Thank you for the report of your hardy roses: "Sexy Rexy, Hula Hoop, Ring of Fire, Moonlight in Paris, Abraham Darby and Amiga Mia."

Another one that I'm really impressed with the hardiness is Ebb Tide, but it's really not supposed to be hardy. Matt at High Country told me he has people in Florida who think it can't survive the winter, so he was surprised how well it did here. But it's got heaps of green cane left, just lost the tips, and I didn't winter protect at all.

Sam in NY, zone 4 used to post in Organic Rose. His most hardy roses are: Ebb Tide, Viking Queen, Heritage, The Wedgwood Rose, and Ambridge rose. He has sandy/loamy soil.

We get Chinook winds here in Calgary that can warm the temperature 2-20 degrees in the middle of winter. It's really hard on nonnative trees and, of course, roses. What people do here is get 4 inch thick styrafoam and form walls around all of their roses as a unit and then stuff bags of leaves all around them and then cover with more styrofoam. They use rebar (I think) to hold everything together.

rosecanadian Thank you for the excellent tip of surrounding pots with bags of leaves (I can get plenty from the neighbor).

joeywyomingzone4 What are the roses that survived your zone 4 winter in fast-drainage pots? I'm thinking about keeping LARGE air-pots outside my zone 5a winter, and surround them with bags of leaves, then put doubled-layered yard-waste collars (fill it with mulch up to a foot tall) to protect the crown.

I kept a bunch of cheap black plastic pots outside (with soil) and none of the plastic pots cracked. Poor drainage is the cause of death for roses stored outside, a zone 7 person reported it never got below 10 F in his winter, but his roses in pots died due to poor drainage.

Air-pots have FAST DRAINAGE so it won't be a problem.

Below is Amazon review for the BIGGER 12.5 gallon air-pots. My twelve existing air-pots I have are 7 gallon each, and it's too small for big roses. Below is Amazon review of the 12.5 gallon air-pots:

"The design is not very secure with its pot base. I use four zip ties to secure them before planting. This is a very important step and I hope you won’t neglect doing it. Otherwise, this large pot will not be able to move around easily without losing soils (soils will come out from the side). Additionally, it may “break” apart due to the weight, since it is a 12.5 gallon, a plant with soil added is considerably heavy.
The Ultra Oxy Pot uses a more shiny material with a straight overlapping end, they provide plastic “screws” for tightening. I would recommend these pots and will buy them again."

5-Pack Ultra Oxy Pot 12.5 Gallon Super Air-Pruning Planter (5 Pots) Brand HTG Supply, for $53.95 on Amazon.

Roses that have done well in pots with decent drainage...Bright & Shiny, Jeanne Lajoie, Queen Nefertiti and Sir Thomas Lipton, (rooted cuttings, smaller sized), New Zealand, Henry Kelsey, Therese Bugnet, Rose de Rescht, America (when it was in a decent pot, I killed it last year with messing up the drainage), Lavender Jewel, Wollerton Old Hall.

Right now the only one I have in a long term pot is my smaller Stars & Stripes. I planted everything else out into my new garden to fill in a lot of space and don't plan to keep a big pot collection. Maybe my new Firefighter? Although I am considering a good in-ground spot for that one too. We shall see.

That's very impressive that America survived your zone 4 winter in a decent pot. My orange climbing America barely survived winter last year (died down to 2 inch). America was bought as gallon-size from Roses Unlimited, and planted in a fast draining hill. It got over 2 feet tall last fall before planting in my clay. I spent over 1 hour digging that hole, so America is NOT hardy in my zone 5a. Below showed how vigorous America was in a dinky 3-gallon pot:

I like the colors of your America!! What a gorgeous picture!!!

Mine (before I killed it in the move haha) was much darker and hard to photograph. The fragrance was lovely though, so I picked up a body bag of America at Walmart this spring and just got it planted. Maybe in the ground will suit it better.

Straw, I agree with Joey - that's a beautiful America! I hope you have a great overwintering this year with your new pots!

Carol: Thank you for your kind words. I wish you the same, that you have a fantastic rose-year (with rain barrels), plus they live for many years so you don't have to buy new ones.

Joey: Was your Perfume Breeze a big plant from store-bought pot, or was it a bare-root? The Perfume Breeze from a 2-gallon pot from HomeDepot has HUGE root ball, and it grew into a 3-gallon root ball depth in my air-pot before I transferred into my heavy clay. Below link has the tip of putting gravel at the base of the pot for fast drainage in winter:

https://www.thespruce.com/how-to-overwinter-container-plants-1402050

"Layer in Gravel

Spreading a layer of gravel at the base of your hole will facilitate drainage in the spring as the soil in the pot eventually thaws. The loose soil of potted plants typically defrosts a little faster than surrounding garden soil, which means drainage can be an issue.

Placing your potted perennial in a bright location can exacerbate any thaw-freeze cycle over the winter. Thus, it's typically best to position plants in a location where the temperature swings will be less dramatic.

Build Insulating Silos

Some gardeners opt to build insulated silos around their potted plants to protect them from damaging winds, especially in the case of more delicate plants, like potted roses and other shrubs. To do so, use chicken wire or metal hardware cloth and stakes to form an enclosure around the plant. Fill the silo with loose leaves or straw to keep your plan cozy."

Below is a pic. of insulating silos from above link:

An excerpt from below link:

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/grow-herb-garden-indoor-outdoor-13771633.html

" soil that freezes is generally not what will kill plant roots. It's actually the cycle of repeated thawing and freezing that damages plants.

Taylor's advice is to provide some sort of insulation for plants so the soil stays a consistent temperature. Large pots offer more protection than small ones, so size can help."

My Perfumed Breeze was one of those gallon bareroots that Home Depot has started to stock where they are potted up in sawdust and start to grow and leaf out. The main roots were chopped off pretty short to fit into the square pot, but after it died and I removed it from the planter it had grown a pretty impressive root system to the base of the planter. It did well last year, with canes reaching 5-6 feet, but just didn't survive the winter.

Straw - thank you!!! I really hope so too. I'm still a bit gun shy after the mess I made last year.

A few random rose pics from around the house today...

Marc Chagall

Apricot Twist

Mountain Music

Adobe Sunrise

Joey: I love all the colors of your roses above, esp. Abode sunrise (like a glowing sunset). My French romanticas bloom well in this week heat of 97 F, but Austin roses are done with their 1st flush. Below pics. taken this Sat. 6/18/22:

Below About Face is heat-tolerant, nice fruity scent:

Below Carding Mill loves heat, but turns pinkish (used to be orange in cool spring):

Princess charlene de Monaco loves the heat, exploded in cluster-blooming:

Dee-lish blooms well at 97 F, behind it is Munstead Wood, also does well in hot weather:

Joey, Marc Chagall is stunning! I hadn't seen any of your posts this year and was wondering how your season was going.

It's going well! I feel like I'm kind of starting from scratch again after transplanting all my roses, but having fun with the new garden and thrilled with how they are all doing after adverse circumstances.

Abraham Darby -- super hardy and doing well

William Shakespeare (David Austin) Great fragrance and holds up well in the heat

Sparkle & Shine. Not supposed to survive here but it does. Light lemon fragrance.

Gertrude Jekyll (David Austin) Almost died last summer, never bloomed, was a pitifully pathetic plant. Covered in buds this year and with a lovely rose fragrance. I'm glad I didn't toss it in the bin like I was going to.

What happened that you had to transplant all your roses?

We moved in early November :) I dug them all in late October and got them planted by mid-November, but it was quite a shock for them.

Wow! That is quite a shock to them. Glad to hear they are recovering.

joeywyomingzone4 Your W.S. bloom is gorgeous. How's the scent and does your bush have dark green leaves? Thanks for the info. Glad to hear that it holds well in the heat.

Thank you!! The scent of William Shakespeare is very pretty, classic 'old rose', in fact exactly like my Dolce & Gabbana perfume Rose 'The One'. The leaves are medium green, not as dark as Queen Nefertiti but not Granny Smith apple green like my Iceberg. I like this rose very much.

A few pics around the garden today....

Moonlight in Paris

Gertrude Jekyll having fun with an interesting bloom. Lovely fragrance!

Stars & Stripes. Teeny-tiny baby rose with teeny-tiny blooms! It's so cute, I hope it does okay. I ordered two from Burlington Roses so that I could have one in a pot and one in the ground.

White Licorice. Amazingly this rose really does smell like licorice, and I love it (which is weird because it's parent Julia Child always smells like a damp musty basement to me.)

Bolero. Short but LOTS of blooms and great fragrance. This rose made it onto my 'if it dies I'll get another one' list, which is pretty short!!

Happy Wednesday everyone!!

Joey: Gorgeous roses !! I love your Moonlight in Paris and your Gertrude has perfect form and such nice deep colors. Some pics. taken this late June at above 90 heat:

James Galway spring flush lasts forever (at least 1 month of blooming). I still have about 6 blooms on Zeph Drouhin as of today 6/29/22. I sniffed Zeph. Drouhin this morning and it was wonderful old rose. Below is James Galway:

Below Dee-lish gets ruffles in high heat. Scent is very strong in hot weather, rasberry/strawberry/guave and rose:

Poseidon loves the heat, exploded in blooms. It blooms better this year due to winter-kill. Normal height after zone 5a winter is 3 feet, but this year it's down to 1.5 feet.

Below Summer Sun from RU is now having 6 buds on 6/29/22. Twilight Zone is looking very deep purple today but I didn't take a pic. of it.

Sonia Rykiel is having 6 blooms which I cut for the vase.

Wow they are all stunning but I love your James Galway so much! The vase bouquets are gorgeous too!

@strawchicago z5, wondering if you could take a look a a climber I posted on the thread https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6281113/tallest-climbing-roses#n=19 to see if it may be America. It was a gorgeous specimen, but unnamed.

Vaporvac: the pic. you posted in above thread is Climbing America. Your pic. is most likely grafted-on-Dr.Huey to be that tall. My own-root Climbing America got up to 3 feet max in a dinky 3-gallon pot. Some pics of my Climbing America, it died this past winter (2" of freezing rain in April):

Front gallon-pot was Moonlight Romantica, top gallon-pot was Climbing America when I first received them last summer June 2021:

@strawchicago z5 I love the colors of your America! Mine was always more of a neon coral as own root, the body bag one hasn't bloomed yet.

@Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley that's such a beautiful picture of the climber going over the archway! I love it :)

Making a note here of a new idea that I'm trying, banana tea for my garden with banana peels in a half gallon jar, soaked for 24 hours and the water used in the garden. So far it seems to have had an exceptional effect with baby Martine Guillot from LongAgo roses putting on three inches of new growth since Sunday.

Joey, That is just a small part of a huge arbor. Forming semi semi circle. All sorts of gorgeous climbers but 1 was unnamed. I try and visit gardens as much as I can to see what does well in the region. I like to visit them multiple times throughout the year and Over the years To seek growth and how they over the year. I'm lucky we have a few with them a couple of hours distance.

That's a great idea to visit local gardens!!

Glad you could understand that gibberish. I need to edit it.