If I married someone whose parents lived in a house like this, I probably wouldn’t be too eager to have a sleepover with all of my brother and sister in laws and then have to go downstairs to use the bathroom as well (and not have a chance of any sort of privacy in that single bathroom for all those people). Frankly, if my parents lived in a house like this, I wouldn’t be too eager to stay with them either.

These responses are so out of touch with reality and reek of entitlement.

My extended family regularly visited my great grandparents in their modest 1 bathroom house on a rural farm. A dozen or more people would be there...and no one cared about sharing a bathroom! We all had a wonderful time and look back on those times as the best of our lives.

When they passed we stayed at my grandparents, who also lived in a small farmhouse with 1 bathroom, and an upstairs made up of one large room with 4 beds (not nearly as spacious as what the OP is proposing). Never did anyone care about this arrangement!

What we wouldn't give to go back and spend more time in those homes.

When designing a home, you need to consider how you live, how you want to live, and how you will realistically live given your circumstances. I think on that third point, you might have a romantic vision that may not necessarily be aligned with that of the 8 other people who will be living in this space with you.

As an empty-nester, I would move into any of your inspiration photos. Love them all and would find them perfectly functional for me and my husband and future visiting kids/grandkids. But to accommodate such a large family and their needs, even those needs that may not have manifested themselves YET, you need to place more emphasis on function than form.

Not having an accessible bathroom for 7 kids on the same level as they are sleeping should be a non-starter if you are realistic about their personal needs. Will it kill them to not have one, probably not. But does it make sense to focus more on the idealized aesthetic of the space than to give your kids the convenience and privacy of an emergency trip to the bathroom in the middle of the night should they need it...also probably not.

The same with the kitchen. The vision of a clean, simple kitchen is lovely. The reality of walking between rooms for even basic food prep and cleanup for nine people is a little ridiculous.

Form follows function as the saying goes. And I think you may be a little unrealistic of your family's function to accommodate the form you want. I think with a few compromises, you can have the overall look you want but will create an altogether more efficient and comfortable home for your family.

How about putting the second bath upstairs and make the other one do double duty downstairs. It would be kind of like having a 1 bath house again downstairs, but the kids bath will be tucked away upstairs and any messes etc. from them is there. Plus your older ones don't need supervision like before. Maybe just make it a shower upstairs to avoid too much water draw from baths. Then baths are downstairs if anyone wants it. If you are able to move the bath then you have a much larger area to put lockers/storage into the back entry/stairway area. If you're hesitant to share the bath with guests, maybe create toilet room so it can be shared between the two baths and add an additional sink on the mudroom side.

How big is the large window? I'm guesstimating it is 10ft wide. If so I think you might have to go with metal windows. Are you good with metal windows mixed with wood windows? Just some things to think about since you mentioned the others would be wood.

I don't know why everyone is resisting the sharing of a room so much here in general - not just your post. I can see when there is a shortage in space to adequately accommodating multiple kids, but there is ample space here. I think the built in beds although hard to make the bed is a better idea when you have to fit many in a smaller space. It gives each user more privacy than say a bunk bed does and you can put in a built in space in each one that allows them to store some special things to them so even though small it becomes a private space and a kid can add a curtain for their own little hideaway. I can see why this appeals to the kids.

For upstairs you will need to figure out so that you have adequate egress sized windows when you're adding the desk there. There are code requirements as to what the minimum size is. If you use casement windows you'll be better off than say trying to use single/double hung or sliders. Even though you may live in an area that doesn't do code inspections, code is still in place across the US.

I'm very much a function over form and would want to build a well functioning home as it just makes life easier. I'm not sure I understand what you're wanting for your kitchen. I interpreted it as you wanted a show area kitchen that wouldn't look messy, however the way the kitchen is placed it isn't particularly visible from inside the house so not sure why it is made so convoluted to work in and the messy parts such as the stove is visible. You might want to think through how YOU (not others on) work in your kitchen - write down the steps that you do when making some of your typical recipes and see how the function of each of those steps in your kitchen work and if there are ways you could improve on those to make it more efficient and also allow multiple people to help preparing. Ie consider things like if you forget an ingredient and how to drain a large pot of for example pasta while avoiding helpers or guests in the kitchen. An efficient workflow will make life easier and also reduce cooking time. Also consider interactions or if you don't want interactions with others while you work in the kitchen.

Will you have a basement? It doesn't look like it based on the Water heater (or I think that is) under the stairs. How will you access the water heater. Are those boxes in the mudroom non-permanent items?

Since you want to be able to expand your dining table I would draw that out along with regular living room furniture layout and make sure you achieve what you want there along with how you expect to use your living room. Will you have a TV? Where would it go and how will the seating look with the windows.

Not having an accessible bathroom for 7 kids on the same level as they are sleeping should be a non-starter if you are realistic about their personal needs.

These posts can't be serious.

Having a kid walk downstairs to use the bathroom should be a "non-starter"?

Doing so means the parents are not attending to the children's "personal needs"?

This is really privileged elitist nonsense. I'm not sure what bubble you're living in, but millions of kids would give anything to live in a house like this. Not having an upstairs bathroom has ZERO correlation with whether the OP cares about her family's needs.

It's one thing to alter your lifestyle to accommodate the home you have because you do not have the resources to change it. It's another thing to design and build a new home to include these same inefficiencies. It's not about privilege. It's about healthy and functional design that works to improve the comfort and well-being of those who live in the home.

While I would want more than one bathroom for my family and suggest a second bathroom upstairs is useful that’s my opinion. Functional design may suggest a second bathroom is needed based on general consensus. Implying it’s healthy or not is an overreach and implies one who doesn’t want additional baths is making an unhealthy choice or negatively contributing to the well being of those in the home.

If no upstairs bathroom is created, get ready to clean up the trail of vomit snd diarrhea down the stairs to the only accessible bathroom. Or deal with lots of chamber pot cleaning, like homes of old. Sick kids cannot control their bodily functions enough to travel down stairs to a toilet. Some adults cannot control them either, if they are sick enough. Who hasn't spent the night on the bathroom floor, hoping that the exiting both ways would cease?

How about putting the second bath upstairs and make the other one do double duty downstairs. [....] If you're hesitant to share the bath with guests, maybe create toilet room so it can be shared between the two baths and add an additional sink on the mudroom side.

Ooooh, yeah, what do you think of this, Miss Miranda? :-)

In a similar vein, I've also seen a "split" bath -- where the toilet and sink are on one side (appearing as a powder room), and a wall/pocket door separates the shower/tub/linen closet on the other side. I guess you could have jack-and-jill type access, if you wanted, but I'd personally just have hall/master vestibule access.

It's another thing to design and build a new home to include these same inefficiencies. It's not about privilege. It's about healthy and functional design that works to improve the comfort and well-being of those who live in the home.

You label them as "inefficiencies", but that certainly doesn't hold true for everyone. In fact, having a second floor bathroom may be a LESS efficient use of the OP's available space and resources.

I've spent a lot of time in a house with many other people that had only 1 first floor bathroom. I never saw it as "unhealthy" or infringing on my "well-being."

The OP has 7 kids, so I presume her resources are not unlimited. She's choosing trade-offs in the design that will meet her families needs (which includes doubling the number of bathrooms they currently have).

To suggest that not having a second floor bath is "unhealthy" and fails to meet "personal needs", or that the OP is neglecting her kids' "well-being" and "comfort" is ridiculous.

"You label them as "inefficiencies", but that certainly doesn't hold true for everyone. In fact, having a second floor bathroom may be a LESS efficient use of the OP's available space and resources."

Actually, I would label having two kitchens as being inefficient (and the converse of minimalist). Having a common bathroom next to the sleeping space of 7 people seems more efficient than having 2 bathrooms next to the sleeping space of 2 or 3. For that matter, having an en suite master bathroom sees inefficient: why not two full bathrooms, one on each floor, both accessible to everyone in the house?

I agree with you on the two kitchens and en suite bathroom.

But I don't understand all of the over-the-top comments about a second floor bathroom.

I spent several years in a house with this setup, as well as lots of time with grandparents/great-grandparents with this setup, and never found it to be an issue. I never experienced any of the sky-is-falling rhetoric that people are posting.

The OP has 7 kids, so I assume the budget is limited. They also plan on doing ALL of the work themselves. There is no question that keeping both bathrooms together on the main floor would be the easiest, most efficient and least costly building method.

I am starting to question the sincerity of this thread.

Two bathrooms could suffice for 10 people, I agree. One often suffices for 5...

But two bathrooms, both larger than they need to be, both in bad locations considering the people they are serving (a large private en suite when there are 7 other people in the house?)

It's being willfully obtuse to not get how this is not "minimalist" or "efficient" or anything like that. Minimalist and efficient would be two 5x7 easily accessed bathrooms, one on each floor.

Is it elitist to suggest indoor plumbing? Why not an outhouse? There can be an argument against any type of design advice if you view it through this idea that the mere suggestion is born out of privilege. Seven people sleeping on one floor with no bathroom vs. two people sleeping on one floor with two bathrooms. Why? Because you don't want to disrupt your roof line?

My extended family regularly visited my great grandparents in their modest 1 bathroom house on a rural farm. A dozen or more people would be there...and no one cared about sharing a bathroom!

Respectfully, visiting in a house isn't the same thing as living in it.

As an empty-nester, I would move into any of your inspiration photos.

I agree that this house would be more realistic for an empty-nester couple.

How about putting the second bath upstairs and make the other one do double duty downstairs. It would be kind of like having a 1 bath house again downstairs

This is a sensible choice.

It's one thing to alter your lifestyle to accommodate the home you have because you do not have the resources to change it. It's another thing to design and build a new home to include these same inefficiencies. It's not about privilege. It's about healthy and functional design that works to improve the comfort and well-being of those who live in the home.

Yeah, I'm on this page. Healthy, functional, comfort and well-being meaning that the family has ample gathering and work space as well as a bit of personal space and storage space for each individual.

If no upstairs bathroom is created, get ready to clean up the trail of vomit snd diarrhea down the stairs to the only accessible bathroom.

Great -- now I'm remembering when my sister was running to the bathroom to throw up ... and she threw up all over the washing machine and dryer as she ran. I had to clean that up. Up the side of the washing machine, into the washing machine, between the two machines, across and down the side of the dryer. And she still had some left for the toilet. Worst clean up ever.

Actually, I would label having two kitchens as being inefficient (and the converse of minimalist).

I remain kinda confused on the kitchen, but two kitchens in a house this size (in which other things typical to most houses are sacrificed for the sake of minimalism) does sound inefficient.

If the goal is to have some "pretty kitchen space", perhaps this would work: A working kitchen that can be "closed off" with shutter windows -- kind of a 70s thing -- so that food could be "set out through" the shutter window onto a serving area, while the real work space is hidden away from public view.

Having a common bathroom next to the sleeping space of 7 people seems more efficient than having 2 bathrooms next to the sleeping space of 2 or 3. For that matter, having an en suite master bathroom sees inefficient: why not two full bathrooms, one on each floor, both accessible to everyone in the house?

That does make sense. For ultimate efficiency, I'd say go with a master with two doors: one from the bedroom /one from the hall.

Is it elitist to suggest indoor plumbing? Why not an outhouse? There can be an argument against any type of design advice if you view it through this idea that the mere suggestion is born out of privilege.

You're now associating the OP's situation with a lack of indoor plumbing? Brilliant stroke of extremism.

You did NOT simply "suggest design advice". The privileged elitist part came when you suggested that not having a second-floor bathroom was...

A "non-starter" that indicated the OP was not attending to the kids' "personal needs", that such a design was not "healthy" and impacted their "well-being" and "comfort."

Lol at you pulling random words out of my posts to create your own interpretation. For whatever reason you are taking great offense at this one suggestion but deem the other criticisms worthy...how elitist of you.

The soil stack must go up through the second floor on its way out of the house. Putting the second bathroom over the first bathroom would require only a small amount more material than side to side placement. That location would need a couple more sticks of copper or more PEX for slightly longer supply lines but if that expense is a deal killer, the deal should be killed. 

With that many occupants, temporary disability will be a problem for someone.  Whether it be a sprained ankle, a appendix removed, or a bad case of the flu, there will be times when stairs are difficult to negotiate. I remember an occasion when my son had fainted upstairs, was a bit woozy and promptly lost his balance and fell down several steps. He wasn't injured but it was an awful feeling watching someone have an accident and not be able to help. There are times when just walking is a problem and stairs are very dangerous.

Oh wow, lot going on here. ;) First thing, what I'm dealing with in the kitchen is that I have too much food. I store all of my dry food in about TEN 5 gallon buckets (cornmeal, rice, oats, lentils, etc.) I keep my flour in 13 gallon trash cans. I buy my canned goods by the case. I need two refrigerators. Hence the pantry. I could have a smaller pantry and put the refrigerators in the main kitchen, but then I would have to look at them. Plus, closet pantries can be dark, crumby little things. I like the idea of being able to walk down an aisle of food that is well lit with lots of clearance. I feel like when your food takes up this much space, it really doesn't get one little point on your work triangle. However, the least it can do is have decent visibility and no doors.

I'm also stoked about my back sink/scullery. I could throw every dish I own in there and pretend like nothing ever happened. My goal with the kitchen was to have it open enough to the dining, as to not feel isolated. But still be able to sit down to dinner without staring at your sink full of dishes and flour-dusted counters.

(P.S. All the windows are not pictured in this plan. There is one above the scullery as well, and some in the sunroom of course.)

As for bathrooms! You guys are hilarious. Ok, so here's the thing. The only person who gets up in the night to go to the bathroom is the person who had seven kids. I would know because the person with seven kids also has insomnia (it's all related). The ones who do have to go to the bathroom just seem to wet the bed. :D I wish they got up. But I am going to light the stairs with those sweet little stair lights anyways.

I wouldn't mind sharing my bath with guests, but not all 9 of us, all day. Even if I did put a shower upstairs and a half downstairs, the space I saved didn't seem to be well utilized. Wasn't sure what to do with it. Plus, I like all the showering to go on next to the laundry. I want to try and keep as much of the clothing centralized.

What kind of weirds me out is the exterior. If I want this:

How do I make sure it doesn't turn into this?

Really, what is the difference? It kinda makes a person nervous.

Thanks again for all the ideas. :)

Booty Bums - you may be the one that’s out of touch with reality. It’s one thing for a bunch of kids to visit grandparents and bunk up for a few nights, and another thing to live like this full time (which is fine, just not a choice I would make for my family) or to expect grown children with spouses to come bunk up in the same way.

I would love to know how many people on this thread in their 30s, 40s, and 50s would enjoy sleeping in a bunk bed in a room with 10 other people (assuming the remaining 3 full beds each have 2 people each and the 4 top bunks have 1 person each). This just not for me and if that makes me entitled, so be it. Hopefully a window can be kept open to get some fresh air in a room with 12 people sleeping in it. Hope that’s not too elitist (but in reality, I do think it’s something worth thinking about).

Val I’m in my 40s and wouldn’t want to sleep in a bunk room long term but our family of five has travelled and shared one room with bunk beds and pull outs for 1-2 weeks in hotels, in bunk houses at cabins etc. It isn’t a big deal at all and to visit family even less of a big deal. In terms of day to day so many people sharing a space, again, this family already has 4-5 kids in a room. Did anyone look at their existing home? This is not all that different!

My brother has been gone. He came home yesterday, looked at my floorplan and said, "Your kitchen is stupid."

What I am thinking alternating on this plan is putting one refrigerator in the corner next to the prep sink, possibly even recessed under the stairs. If I do this, I would be able to make the back pantry a 3' clearance and add another foot to the kitchen in front. Also, no one liked the sunroom from a construction standpoint. A bumpout is easier, and would probably be a big window with seating or a windowseat. Having seating in my kitchen is kind of a must for me.

I'm also working on resituating the wood stove, maybe as a divider between the living/dining? Kind of sticking out where that little stub wall is.

I'm also experimenting making the indent more shallow (2') and to the right, making the door open straight on into the hall.

I am sure having a family of 9 is challenging and I can certainly see how simplicity improves one’s life. As it could quickly become chaotic with two many “things” or people’s opinions to please and keep fairness in play.
That being said, if the opposition to an additional bathroom is not related to a lack of funds, But your own preference for super simple, then I believe you are being shortsighted. You keep talking about envisioning grandkids, etc. Your family of nine could quickly become 18, 27, etc. Three bathrooms will not feel like a luxury then. And I am not even talking about showers, but toilets. I come from a family where there is digestive diseases. The kind that require EMERGENT access to a bathroom to avoid soiling oneself. You don’t know that a similar thing will not come to plague a member of your family now, or an extended family member, or a child’s friend who comes to play. Your oldest is only 15. You have yet to experience full teenage issues with multiple girls menstruating and boys in puberty. If you can afford 1 or more additional bathroom closer to bedrooms, it would be kind to include it. Trust me

In the same spirit as some of the posters, I will say that where I grew up, many homes still had outhouses. People seemed okay with it. No one died. So why not just scratch the downstairs bathroom all together and build an outhouse?

Because it is 2022? I'm not opposed to the idea of having an outhouse ... but as an additional spot out back in homage to the olden days or for kids who are outside playing. Not for everyday use because the house is inadequate for the number of residents.

Seriously, this is a new house. This is a considerable investment. Clearly thought is going into the design. So why not add a bathroom upstairs for the kids? I don't understand the reluctance.

The reluctance is money, the effort of building more with one's own hands, and an extreme desire to build as little as possible. But, yeah, most people today would say that the kids need an upstairs bathroom.

Hence the pantry. I could have a smaller pantry and put the refrigerators in the main kitchen, but then I would have to look at them. Plus, closet pantries can be dark, crumby little things. I like the idea of being able to walk down an aisle of food that is well lit with lots of clearance. I feel like when your food takes up this much space, it really doesn't get one little point on your work triangle. However, the least it can do is have decent visibility and no doors.

A big pantry makes perfect sense. With a big family, food storage is essential, and buying in bulk is a good way to save. It's also considerably cheaper than storing food in cabinets /under countertops.

However, I don't see the problem with viewing the refrigerator, and I don't see why skipping doors is a goal.

I'm also stoked about my back sink/scullery. I could throw every dish I own in there and pretend like nothing ever happened.

You're talking about dirty dishes? That means transporting them to the far end of the house, which is inefficient. You can avoid looking at a dirty kitchen AND plan in efficiency.

The only person who gets up in the night to go to the bathroom is the person who had seven kids.

Disagree. I've heard my kids get up to go to the bathroom during the night many times. My 24-year old who still lives at home occasionally gets up and goes to the bathroom.

Serious question: Which of these is worse?

- Spending money and effort on a bathroom that isn't fully utilized.

- Not building an upstairs bathroom, wanting it later, and figuring out how to add it in /paying more because it wasn't done as a part of the original build.

Hopefully a window can be kept open to get some fresh air in a room with 12 people sleeping in it. Hope that’s not too elitist (but in reality, I do think it’s something worth thinking about).

You legally must have a window that allows for egress in a bedroom.

Did anyone look at their existing home? This is not all that different!

And if that existing home had been working for them, they wouldn't be building. Clearly they need some changes.

Your oldest is only 15. You have yet to experience full teenage issues with multiple girls menstruating and boys in puberty. If you can afford 1 or more additional bathroom closer to bedrooms, it would be kind to include it. Trust me

As the mother of adult children, I agree.

My brother has been gone. He came home yesterday, looked at my floorplan and said, "Your kitchen is stupid."

The kitchen does need significant work. Tucking the refrigerators away so that they require walking the length of the pantry, for example, is inefficient.

One thought on refrigerators: Don't go for the cheapest. Minimalism includes efficiency, so go with models that'll last and use less energy.

Last thought: I understand the OP's goal of ultimate simplicity and minimalism, but I'm thinking about things I have stored in my house that don't feel like "too much. I'm wondering if these type of things will need storage:

- Board games -- we play them frequently in our house.

- Video games

- Coats, especially out of season coats.

- Clothing that the oldest kids have outgrown /the youngest kids can't yet use, especially shoes, which require more storage space.

- Tools

- Sleeping bags

- Beach towels

- Kids' backpacks

- Duffle bags or luggage

- Kids' Chromebooks /laptops for schoolwork -- consider where they'd charge too

- Extra light bulbs, extension cords, batteries

- Extra toiletries

- Emergency items such as flashlights, candles, first aid supplies

- Sports equipment

- Musical instruments

- Hobby materials

- Art supplies

- Seasonal decorations

So, I'm originally from India and my grandparents house had a shared outhouse (shared with other families). So I understand the OP's concept. But, if I had the resources, having a similar set up doesn't make sense. Just having a powder room upstairs would make so much sense and would add so much comfort. It will still keep laundry in one place..

Booty Bums - I would love to know how many people on this thread in their 30s, 40s, and 50s would enjoy sleeping in a bunk bed in a room with 10 other people. This just not for me and if that makes me entitled, so be it.

My family is made up of mostly of well-educated professionals living normal middle to middle-upper class lives. None of us gave a second thought about going back to my grandparents and great-grandparents farm houses to visit. It was the best memories of our lives and we'd do anything to go back to those times.

What is the alternative you are proposing? Should the OP build an 8-bedroom house so the kids would be willing to visit their parents when they grow up?

Hey all! Sorry I don't have the time to respond to each one of you. Chaos is perpetually at my heels. ;) Here is my updated floor plan, again. We had to submit it, even before all the changes were made. But I think there is some flexibility after that. The big decision will be regarding eave size when we order the truss package. Which we should have done last week. And I still can't envision the exterior of this house! Inside bothers me less. (Please remember, lots of storage in eaves.)

Starting on the left, you can see we squeezed out some space for a walk-in shower in the hall bathroom. I took this space out of my master. I probably shouldn't have. I can add a little more depth to my bathroom by taking it out of the library. That is a 34" x 6' walk-in shower, so it is already at the minimum. I'm not sure if you had any thoughts on that. :/

The hall clearance is at 42" with an 18'', inset hall bench. I think that is as tight as I would go.

Notes on extra storage, under the stairs will probably have pull-out bins for extra snow gear, etc. I think the bottom/tightest pull out will be for tools. You know, kind of like pull-out trash cans under a kitchen island?

I moved some refrigerators around in the kitchen. I was happy that I could recess one under the stairs and place it in a more inconspicous spot, with one side covered by a wall. The other fridge is stuffed in the back. Think of this as your garage fridge. And since it is in a dead in spot, I shortened the clearance to 3'. The other development is that I axed the bump-out all together. After I just made it smaller. Turns out, I would spend the same amount on concrete to extend the entire house, as I would to extend just the kitchen. All I want is a cozy place for guests/kids to sit in my kitchen while I work. Plus, I wanted a view window. This should frame the mountain, with no other houses in the sight line.

My other question was if I should keep the 4' clearance to the scullery, or reduce it to 3' and add the additional length to my counter? Or just make a 3' opening and use the space on the east wall for additional shelving? I did save a lot of space in the dining room by shoving the table along the wall. This halves the number of chairs I need to keep in circulation. Chairs are like locusts.

And look, I put in a half bath upstairs! My concern is that it would cramp the placement of the skylights. I wanted two skylights on the front of the house on the south side. I didn't want to place the bathroom by the stairs, because kids like to hang over railings to their deaths. I also didn't want it to compete with the closets. Which left just this one corner, pushing the skylight together.

All that being said, the thing that is giving me the MOST TROUBLE is the exterior. I wanted a barn:

However, the men want 8' ceilings and 3' eaves. Which makes everything much to squat to speak barn. I feel that sometimes you just don't get what you want and so you have to let go and start over. Here the west elevation with short eaves.

One thing I can see is off setting the trusses to give a large eave on the south side, and a shorter one on the north. If I did this, I could get rid of the recessed entry on the front of the house. However, this option seems to necessitate a deck the full length of the house. And I'm not sure how committed I am to this look to begin with. :/ I just don't love it.

Options? Thanks*M

Outdoor living space would be welcome, especially to give more options for sitting quietly, etc. The more deck the better!!! One additional reason that I'm thrilled you added the upstairs half-bath. The other bath is close to your bedroom, so that's a lot of flushing noises to keep you up, wake you early, etc. You're gonna love not having the only other bathroom right outside your lovely bedroom!

What is the alternative you are proposing? Should the OP build an 8-bedroom house so the kids would be willing to visit their parents when they grow up?

Hyperbole never helps.

This is improving. Comments:

- I like that hall bath's behind-the-door empty space has been turned into a hall closet. Since you said you're going to encourage the kids to use the back door, this would be a nice spot to turn into a drop-space (with drawers under /shelves above) for people entering the house ... for bookbags, purses, keys.

- Is that a shower in the hall bathroom? If you place a second shower door between the master bath and the shower, you'd have instant access to the shower from your own room ... without taking away from the kids' access.

- I don't love the master bedroom door opening off the library ... if someone's in the library reading or whatever, you'll have to open the door /walk through, interrupting that person. I'd rather see the master entrance off the mudhall /the bedroom storage neatly divided into two for the two spouses.

- Does the library have only one window? I know you want to save the walls for windows, but maybe a couple small 2' round/octagonal windows could break up the shelving and bring in light from another direction.

- I remain concerned about furniture placement in the living room ... with the walking spaces cutting into its square footage, you're going to have a rather smallish living room ... and that doesn't feel, to me, like the spot to skimp.

- I like the floating bench for the large table. It's a real space saver.

- Not clear: are you reducing the sunroom to almost nothing? I think that little bump adds space where you really need it (for traffic into the pantry) and light in the whole kitchen area.

- I like that you brought one refrigerator out in to the main kitchen ... separating them makes sense. One is for "every day stuff", and the other is for overflow. I'd like to see the pantry fridge pulled away from the wall a bit ... so that the door will open fully. A set of tall-shelves between the fridge and the wall would fix this.

- The kitchen is much improved ... while still a little off-beat, it reflects the goals you set for yourself, and it looks much more workable.

- Is that a pass-through between the main kitchen and the scullery? That's a win. From where will groceries enter the house? You have a fairly long pathway from either door into the pantry ... could you also add an exterior pass-through so that groceries don't have to be paraded through the living room?

- I'd definitely put a pegboard on the back wall of that pantry ... they hold so, so much in essentially no space.

- I'd like to see the main kitchen's sink enlarged. Sinks are hard workers, and when you're feeding a big family, those extra inches will be appreciated ... think about washing a turkey, processing a bunch of apples for canning, etc.

- Why two dishwashers? You're emphasizing how few possessions you have ... so 9 plates (even with cookware) fit into one dishwasher without any difficulty.

I took this space out of my master. I probably shouldn't have.

No, I think that was a good choice. Adults don't need a lot of bedroom space ... I'd rather see good-sized closets and bathrooms.

That is a 34" x 6' walk-in shower, so it is already at the minimum.

34" is kinda minimum for width, but 6' is more than is needed for length. Maybe you could give that space to the hallway closet /go with coffin-style pull-out drawers?

My other question was if I should keep the 4' clearance to the scullery

Definitely keep 4' ... think of it as a hallway .... would you want a 3' hallway?

However, the men want 8' ceilings and 3' eaves.

Earlier you showed a picture of your inspiration house vs. a garage. One of the biggest differences is the eaves. Your inspiration house has essentially no eaves ... this is key to "the look" you're pursuing.

I don't know how lack of eaves affects the house. I know that a friend of mine put in extra-deep eaves on the west side of her house /more shade = less electrical bill.

However, this option seems to necessitate a deck the full length of the house.

You really need a deck or a patio outside both doors. This'll cut down significantly on the dirt, leaves and sticks the kids will drag in on their feet, not to mention mud in bad weather.

And I'm not sure how committed I am to this look to begin with. :/ I just don't love it.

I don't like the style, but it's not my house.

The more deck the better!!!

Agree, but I personally prefer patios ... concrete requires less maintenance than wood, and it seems to mesh better with this house style (better than wooden decking). Consider that you can stain concrete to look like rock.

One additional reason that I'm thrilled you added the upstairs half-bath.

I didn't study on an upstairs plan, but I don't think you'll ever have cause to regret this.

"The big decision will be regarding eave size when we order the truss package."

What trusses? Attic trusses? The 1/2 story should be stick framed to achieve the results you want and give other benefits, not trusses.

"We had to submit it, even before all the changes were made."

You mean for permit? You will be locked in for the most part in the main ingredients to what you have now. Realize that even with a simple layout, to achieve the aesthetics that you want, requires much more time and effort than maybe even a typical suburban house does, which doesn't appear to have happened here (but design by committee is always fascinating to follow). What I predict with the final product, is you can walk around the house holding an empty picture frame in front of your face. Look through the picture frame, and you will see the little "vignettes" of each and every inspiration picture you are emulating. But, overall, the entire design does not carry through the concept, rather, it is just a conglomeration of these individual vignettes. That will be noticeable by someone who is alert to design details as you (and your husband) is, as spaces are not experienced like a photograph viewpoint or through a camera lens on a tv set stage.

I have nothing to add to the great bathroom debate, but I do think that you may be quite disappointed with the overall aesthetic of the structure you are building. I say this not because there's necessarily anything wrong with the design, but because it is a very long way from the inspiration photos you've posted. As Mrs Pete points out the 3' eaves are a huge departure from your inspiration. I could see 1.5’ or maybe even 2’, but I’m afraid that 3’ on an already very short house is going to look unfortunate. I think the big issue is proportion in terms of the width and height of the house. The majority (if not all) of the exterior inspiration photos are of narrower and relatively taller houses. At 32' wide with 8' ceilings, the house is certainly going to look squat. I don't think you've said what pitch the roof will be, but based on your elevation drawing it is not nearly as steep as your inspiration photos. Most of the exterior photos you've posted appear to have a 12:12 pitch. I think, like the eaves, this is also key to the look you seem drawn to.

My comments stem from my own experience - the house my husband and I built has a similar look to what I think you're going for (26' x 40' rectangle with 12:12 pitch roof, no dormers). Our inspiration for the house was an old carriage house that we loved, but that building was only 20' wide. Increasing the width of the house to 26’ made a huge difference in proportion - we made a scaled model before finalizing the design and 26' wide with 9’ ceilings looked way too short and fat for our taste. We ended up increasing the height of the exterior walls to get a similar ratio of width to height as the inspiration building. We didn't want higher ceilings on the main floor, so we did this by adding short walls to the second 1/2 storey, which had the added bonus of giving us more useable space upstairs. We’re generally happy with how it turned out, but still much prefer the overall smaller scale of our inspiration building.

This is our house (26’ wide and approximately 26’ tall from ground to peak of roof):

This was our inspiration (20’ wide and approximately 20’ tall from ground to peak of roof):

Some of your inspiration photos (note that these houses are as tall, or taller, than their width):

your elevation:

your elevation with 3’ eaves:

@Mrs Pete Thank you, Mrs. Pete! So much to think about. I might add the second dishwasher later, mostly because I don't want to look at it from the front kitchen. But they definitely come in handy when we have dinner parties. Sometimes I have to run my dishwasher six times before I get back to normal. It should also be said that I NEVER wash anything by hand. That might be the real problem. I was also thinking about opening the pantry to the back hall, but through traffic makes me nervous.... I could open the master to the hall, but I liked the privacy of going through the library. Almost like a master wing. ;) But with kids in it. And yes, the men love eaves. They protect the siding and shade the windows. My husband actually has a program where you can plug in the window/location and it will tell you exactly how much to shade. In other words, who am I to argue with math?

@3onthetree I guess a big factor with this house is time. While we could frame it, it would take longer and we would still have to go through an engineer. With engineered attic trusses we just throw them up. Plus, I guess there is a difference in how you have to insulate. And I don't really want the upstairs any bigger to begin with. (I did prefer the look, but more on a narrower house.)

The boys have this idea that if they do the foundation and exterior walls, throw up the trusses and roof, they can have it buttoned up before winter. Which comes fast and hard around here. They're also only working on their downtime, so the need is speed.

Oh, as for aesthetics, we come by those without trying. ;) We do all the work ourselves and mill our own siding/finishes. I guess the look is the equivalent of a zero-waste market. It just feels different when you've made something yourself. I think that will be the unifying theme. Floors/trim/doors/cabinets/window seats/bookshelves - hopefully that ties it together.

@marilyncb You nailed it. I love your house btw. We're drawn to those more intimate human proportions. I guess everything was built that way before we could do these massive spans that turned homes into caves. :( However, we are too cheap. Squares are more efficient. Our original design was more narrow with a half story, but the master always got moved upstairs. Putting it downstairs made the footprint too long. We toyed with all kinds of things actually. I think we gave up.

But yes, I have to rethink the outside considerably. I think I wouldn't mind this. But that's before I sprinkle windows all over it. Would really like to come up with a uniform scheme for the outside. Not there yet. Thanks*M

I totally get the efficiency arguments and, ultimately, it's all about compromise. We were really stuck on a certain exterior look that we wanted to recreate and that's not easy to do when the interior floorplan comes into play. I remember looking at our house when the construction was finally over and, while I think the proportions generally work, I just felt like the scale was too big overall. I also think there are things about our floorplan that could have been better, if we'd compromised on the exterior. In hindsight, I think we would have been happier with changing the footprint from the single rectangle to an L shape to give us the scale and look of the gable walls that we really wanted. Something along these lines (but with more windows!):

Anyway, it's a really tough process. As you said, at some point you give up on trying to make all the competing goals mesh and you just have to get on with it. I do like the last photo you posted above and I hope you find a look that makes you happy. I really like your overall vision and the interior details you've posted. And I love that you're milling your own siding, etc!

@marilyncb Yes, that is exactly what my husband wants, long and narrow. We did toy around with this one for a while, making one of the volumes two stories.

However, I only made it this far into the plan before realizing that I would never get anyone to leave my kitchen. And I would spend all my time trying to clear a 10' island in a drop zone.

I was going to do a bump-out/covered porch with seating off the kitchen.

The 20x20 living room would be built as a phase two. I was worried we would never build it and then find out we didn't need to. It would need a separate heat source as well. Making it a big cold room no one would want to hang out in. So many of our narrow plans involved two volumes. My brother would always exclaim, "Why would you want to build TWO houses?" I am tempted. Upstairs would be kids' bunk rooms and bonus room. Maybe, in the end, cold hard efficiency appeals to me. That or I just can't have nice things.

"That or I just can't have nice things."

This is me. Totally. :-/ One day, maybe, I can have something nice. *Maybe*. lol

I might add the second dishwasher later, mostly because I don't want to look at it from the front kitchen. But they definitely come in handy when we have dinner parties. Sometimes I have to run my dishwasher six times before I get back to normal. It should also be said that I NEVER wash anything by hand. That might be the real problem.

Expanding my thoughts on this topic:

- Two dishwashers are the opposite of minimal.

- Two dishwashers take away from the storage in your pantry.

- How often do you throw dinner parties that wreck your kitchen? If you're talking about 2-3 times a year, I'd say pile up the dishes and take your time over the course of the next day letting the dishwasher make multiple loads. From experience, I promise you the dish police do not show up if your dishes aren't clean and returned to the cabinet within a couple hours.

- Do you regularly mess up a bunch of dishes while cooking a family meal? If so, slow down and consider where you could consolidate. I swear my husband can use 20 cooking dishes for a single meal ... he will cut up vegetables and put them into a bowl before transferring them to the frying pan. He will put the meat on a platter before taking it out to the grill, then somehow use two more platters before he's done.

- Are you open to paper plates for serving these big meals?

- When I have a big party, I often prep-ahead things that can be baked in a throw-away aluminum pan ... for example, lasagna. This means all the cooking-dishes are cleaned and put away well before the party, and the aluminum pan is tossed.

- My husband loves cooking on the grill, and that frees up the kitchen too.

With engineered attic trusses we just throw them up ... The boys have this idea that if they do the foundation and exterior walls, throw up the trusses and roof, they can have it buttoned up before winter.

I sincerely hope you're right, but in my life everything seems to take longer than I expected, cost more than I planned, and require more effort than I'd anticipated.

Are engineered trusses compatible with the built-in beds that you want?

Squares are more efficient.

Rectangles aren't much different, and they provide more space for windows /natural light.

Efficiency is important, and appealing. I think your house is going to be really nice; just different than some of your inspiration photos. You’re building a clean, simple structure clad in wood siding/trim with great attention to detail and hand-crafted finishes. Sounds pretty nice to me!

There’s some fantastic Japanese architecture with wide eaves (you probably already know this). None of these are intended to reflect your house (different sizes, styles, roof pitches, etc.) - just meant to provide ideas that might translate into an exterior look that inspires you:

a bathroom area where the sink/counter is out by the hall , and the bath and toilet are both behind (a) door/s works well for a full house.

a bathroom area where the sink/counter is out by the hall , and the bath and toilet are both behind (a) door/s works well for a full house.

Something like a house I rented with a bunch of girlfriends in college: the master bedroom had a large sink and make-up area in the bedroom /the tub/shower and toilet in the bathroom. That could be practical, except that this house's downstairs hallway is already taking on a lot of tasks ... it could work upstairs perhaps?

Another thing that I thought of later: you're looking at a floating seat for the dining room table, an idea I like /an idea that's space-saving. It could be a step better if you added storage under the seats. This could keep the living room clutter-free.

Actually squares aren't that great for houses because you end up with space in the middle that can be dark and with no connection to the outside once the square reaches a certain size.

a bathroom area where the sink/counter is out by the hall , and the bath and toilet are both behind (a) door/s works well for a full house.

My personal preference is to keep the toilet accessible while someone is in the shower/tub (which, of course, means an opaque covering for the shower/tub to retain privacy), because I can't seem to find the off-switch for the kids' bladders when someone else is in the shower. lol

Granted, I currently only have 2 toilets, and no powder room. Three of my kidlets aren't potty trained yet (we're a special needs family, plus I have a young toddler), and I'd love to have an extra toilet when all 7 kids are out of diapers.

Miss Miranda may feel differently! :-D

@Mrs Pete I thought of a storage bench. Maybe I will upgrade to it when I get desperate. ;) I was kind of liking the floating bench because I wouldn't get any off those scuff marks and the crud build-up from heavy traffic. It also might be a little easier, especially since we can custom mill the board. One and done? The boys balk at cabinetry. :O

@marilyncb Yes, we were looking at some of those. My guess is that the overhang is too much for northern Idaho. We don't get enough light here as is.

@palimpsest Square is just optimal in terms of square feet for the perimeter. My brother, the dark soul that he is, says windows are expensive and just make it harder to insulate. That's what I have to deal with around here. ;) I want triple aspect all the way!

@hbeing Yes, those make so much sense! We tried really hard to fit one in, but always ended sacrificing it for space. They take a little more room. Our compromise is that the hall bathroom can be simultaneously used by three people, provided that have low standards. ;) And by now, they pretty much all do. I have one that is still holding out for human dignity. I was going to put a little barn door on the walk-in shower that could be kicked over if someone needed to use the toilet. And the wall that hides the toilet provides a little privacy. Which is usually enough for the little kids in the first place. Although, my 17 yo is the repeat exhibitionist. smh

I thought of a storage bench. Maybe I will upgrade to it when I get desperate. ;) I was kind of liking the floating bench because I wouldn't get any off those scuff marks and the crud build-up from heavy traffic.

You're thinking of small swinging feet? Consider tiling (to match the backsplash in the nearby kitchen). Tile is super easy to wipe down.

My brother, the dark soul that he is, says windows are expensive and just make it harder to insulate.

He's not wrong, but natural light also makes rooms more pleasant. You want a house that's a nice mid-point between energy efficiency and lovely spaces.

Please consider adding a mudroom/airlock style bump out for your back door with the outside door on the east or west. That will eliminate the arctic blast every time the back door opens. Also, I would reduce the size of windows B and C on that north wall. Big glass on that side acts like a heat drain in your climate.

Actually if you want optimal area per perimeter you should look at circles.

Actually if you want optimal area per perimeter you should look at circles.

If you're filling a Tupperware bowl with leftover mashed potatoes -- yeah, your math is spot on -- but in a house circles leave weird un-usable corners. And curves are expensive to build.