Like the big built-in aquarium! If it was me, I would switch the patio and the dining room. You could put the hutch on the opposite wall and build a wall of windows toward the patio. Then on the wall facing the garage, you could install windows up high to let light in, but block the view of the garage. Either choice with the patio and dining room, I think your kitchen and living might be a little dark. However, looks like it's going to be nice house.

I love it, one of the best floor plans I've seen! How many square feet is it?

What part of the country are you in?

I think this has a lot of potential, but there are some oddities.

On the first floor, you have a window in the pantry - with a fridge in front of it. Adjacent to the mud room, you have a closet with a clothes rod in front of it. I love all the storage space in this house, but the mud room/closet area (as well as the master closet) looks like a lot of open space compared to usable storage.

The secondary bedroom closets are tiny for a house this size, and the bathrooms have no storage. I'm trying at walk myself through the master suite - I would hate to go all the way across the house to get a pair of slippers out of the closet, to say nothing of going through the bathroom to get to the closet. And again, there's a window in the closet, which will quickly fade your clothes. And you have the washer and dryer butted up to the bedroom wall. Maybe I'm the only one who throws in a load of clothes before bed?

Is there a reason you don't want the closet directly off the master? I would swap the master closet and laundry. I might even go further and make just one shared bath for the other two bedrooms, configuring in a way that give both rooms more closet space (and perhaps a tub, unless you're OK with kids or guests using the tub in the master).

Finally, who will use the hot tub? If kids or guests will use it, do you really want them marching through your master suite to get to it?

I would probably switch the dining with patio. And I would love to see that whole far left side connected in some way, so that the 1/2 bath and command center are more accessible.

Who will live in the house? Kids? Ages? What part of the country are you in?

the first thing I notice is that the upstairs master space could be changed so that the closet door is closer to the little vestibule between bedroom and bathroom. That way you aren't always having to walk through the bathroom when all you want to do is grab a scarf midway through the morning.

Nice design, however you literally have to walk the entire width of the house to get from the bed to the toilet. Maybe you could switch the bathroom with the laundry, so the clothes end up closer to their final destination in the closet and the toilet is on the same side of the house as the master bedroom.

How about something like this for the downstairs? The red would be windows.

I left out the garage it is in the back left corner about 20 feet
behind the end of the house. Closer than i'd like but we're building on
a short lot.

I think 20 feet away is pretty far when you're carrying in groceries in the rain (or other inclement weather).

We really like large sliding patio
doors, were thinking we should put them on the side of the dining area
as well as we'd be able to open that side up and feel like we're eating
outside.

Yes, you could open the doorss to give you the "bring the outside in" feel, but these doors wouldn't be very useful as DOORS; that is, a person who wanted to use them would have to scootch around the table to reach the door. The obvious question is, If your goal is to bring in fresh air, why go with doors? Why not go with a bank of windows? Windows are less expensive, more energy effective, and harder for a thief to break into.

Other thoughts:

- I very much like the idea of flipping the patio and the dining room.

- On a daily basis, you'll enter thought the locker room? I'd take out the WIC and the pantry ... and have one big, long room. It'll make for better circulation and give you just as much function.

- I like that you used pocket doors on the mudroom and pantry; these are rooms that'll rarely be closed off.

- You don't have a large amount of kitchen cabinetry, but with the large pantry "right there", you'll be fine.

- You have a den with two desks AND another desk in the pantry (command center). Looks like a duplication of function.

- Do you keep aquariums now? I ask because a big one like this requires a good bit of maintenance, and with it being built-in, it'd be hard to get rid of this hobby.

- What I think is the item most in need of help: The entrance from the foyer. Imagine you walk into the foyer ... you have natural light, you see the staircase ... and the you're "funneled through" a tiny doorway into the living area. And what's your sight line straight ahead? Side view of a wall. When you look back towards the entrance, what's your view? The middle portion of the staircase. This could be such a nice area, but that entrance experience will be lackluster.

- You have a similar problem upstairs: You walk up the stairs, and the walls "squeeze you in" ... funnel you into the upstairs hall. This'll be difficult when maneuvering furniture, and it'll be uncomfortable to arrive at the top of the stairs and be forced to take a step sideways before stepping out into the hallway.

- The two kids' bathrooms look a bit tight; Bedroom 3's swinging shower door is crowded up against the toilet; I'd consider going with a shower curtain. Also, you really don't want pocket doors on bathrooms. Pocket doors are great for rooms that are rarely closed (i.e., the laundry room); however, doors that see a great deal of use need to be more substantial than pocket doors.

- I would definitely move the washer/dryer to the end of the house ( so the dryer can vent directly to the outside. This will also take the washer/dryer off the wall shared with the master bedroom -- no one wants that noise. The laundry room is a great place for those pocket doors.

- As for the closet in the bathroom, I'm kid of neutral on the topic ... but IF a closet is in the bathroom, it needs to be done right ... this one requires you to walk the length of the bathroom /thread your way through several doorways while carrying baskets ... if you shift the sink to the left, you could have the closet door JUST INSIDE the door, which would be better.

kalenangel, the trouble with that switch is that the current bathroom has a wall of windows. One wouldn't want that in a closet.

Another option might be to make the right side of the upstairs bedrooms and laundry, and the left side master suite.

AnnKH - I guess it depends on what you are used to. I have 3 windows in my closet and I love it.
I guess I suggested the switch because I take a water pill and that hike to the toilet would not work for me :-)

You obviously have put a lot of thought into this plan and someone has put a lot of work into the drawings. Don't let the comments here make you second guess it. It's a very good plan! I tend to agree about moving the dining, but it depends on the site.

Wow, thank you everyone for your feedback. I'll try to address a few of the points to provide some context. House will be built for a family of 4 (children 15 & 13) in Western Canada where it can be pretty cold in the winters. Main floor about 1,800sf and upstairs about 1,700.

Seems the upstairs master and bathroom elicited a lot of concern. Will certainly give that some thought. To give you a sense as to why it's a little bit removed is I get up extremely early for work and try not to wake my spouse. Our current home has the closet within the bathroom and we find it convenient as after showering you're right at the closet rather than walking back through your room (again trying to remain quiet).

The toilet does seem far though, i agree. The kids bedrooms would be nice to be able to get larger closet and bath but might not be possible. Trying to keep them both similar in dimensions to avoid the "you love him more" issue!! Point about washer/dryer on wall really good, never thought about that.

On main floor maybe we should just open the wall on the side of the staircase at the door to make for a more open feeling. Front door is strictly a guest door. Our living will be in the back of the house. Will use the rear door. We've put in a large rear entry with lockers and a bench seat. We've also put in a walk in closet to provide room for seasonal clothing, sports gear, school bags etc. that get carted in and out everyday. We thought it might be a bit big but somehow closets always get filled up! We could dedicate a part of it to vacuum/brooms etc.

The pantry and the back entry both have large side windows with the hopes that morning east sun will make its way somewhat into the kitchen. I don't expect our pocket doors will be closed much at all. The pantry will have a freezer so that the kitchen has only a large fridge. The command center is really a place for charging all the electronic gadgets we seem to have collected and the phone and maybe a computer to quickly look things up. The fridge in front of the window is just an under-counter bar fridge.

The den in the front of the house will have two workstations for the kids. The island we will probably change and put an overhang at the one end so we can fit in another stool so not everyone is in a line. Really appreciate everyone's comments. Hopefully this provides some context and I'd love to hear back.

Also it seems the majority of people think flipping the patio and dining areas make more sense if possible.

Thanks

If you move the dining room, you will probably want to move the hot tub both outside spaces are over each other in case they ever do spring a leak. This is a tough one since the hot tub is in a nice spot for privacy. This might be a good reason to leave things as they are. If you can cover the hot tub with a roof you'll be glad later.

I like the foyer given the cold climate. I do like an open handrail by the stairs rather than a wall to open things up a bit, but this is a judgment call you can make when the space gets built.

Yes, if we do swap the dining and patio I guess there are repercussions to the upstairs! My biggest issue in our current house is our kitchen does not have windows and feels dark. that's one of the reasons we tried to get the patio doors right off the kitchen in this plan. not sure though if the covered patio with screens will just make the kitchen feel dark again...

House will be built for a family of 4 (children 15 & 13)

So your kids have one foot out the door ... by the time the house is finished, your oldest may have chosen his or her college. I'd lean towards losing one upstairs bathroom /going with one bath open to the hallway. This would be a huge money saver now, less for you to care for once the kids are out the door, and two kids can easily share one bathroom.

Our current home has the closet within the bathroom and we find it convenient as after showering you're right at the closet rather than walking back through your room (again trying to remain quiet).

People have strong feelings on the closet-in-bathroom thing, but I really think the general concept boils down to opinion. However, having said that, some closets-in-bathrooms are better done than others.

Point about washer/dryer on wall really good, never thought about that.

Two other options:

- Move the washer/dryer from the top wall to the bottom wall (within the same space), which would place the water in the same wall as Bedroom 3's bathroom.

- Move the washer/dryer to the end of the cabinet run, which would still allow you to vent the dryer out the side of the house ... without placing the plumbing in the exterior wall, which might not be good in your cold climate.

Front door is strictly a guest door.

With the garage at the back, be sure you don't neglect obvious guest parking near the front door. I personally think this is a topic that's overlooked all too often. If you show guests clearly where you want them to park -- and place that parking place within view of the front door -- they'll use the front door.
The pantry and the back entry both have large side windows with the hopes that morning east sun will make its way somewhat into the kitchen. I don't expect our pocket doors will be closed much at all.

Bad: I think the sunlight that'll seep through those windows will be diluted to the point that it really won't lead to a bright, sunny kitchen. I like your kitchen layout -- it's simple, inexpensive, functional -- but I think you have to choose between this layout and lovely sunshine in the kitchen.

Good: Yes, even though you know you're going to leave those doors open, definitely keep the pocket doors. When you have people over, or when you want to contain a puppy, you're going to want to close those doors -- and the pocket doors will be very worthwhile then.

The command center is really a place for charging all the electronic gadgets we seem to have collected and the phone and maybe a computer to quickly look things up.

Eh, I don't think out-of-the-way charging stations get used all that much. How about a charging station at the end of the island?

The den in the front of the house will have two workstations for the kids.

My kids never used the desk workspaces I provided for them -- they sat on their beds or used lap desks in the recliners to do their homework. However, this den area will be a good flex-area over the years: With kids the age of yours, I'd lean towards skipping the built-in workstations and going with a couple sofas and a TV /video game spot. It'd be a good spot for them to have their friends over: Away from your main living area, yet still within checking-on-you distance.

Is a good plan, just not for me. If it were for me I'd go with a concept like this:

Keep in mind, this is a rough concept, not a floor plan. The proportions are off, the pantry and mud and porch are too big and that extra area should go to the open kitchen/dining/great room area.

I'd place the fireplace between den and great room wall and the aquarium at the pantry wall so I can have more windows in great room. The kitchen can get a window. The dining hutch will go to the exterior wall.

Naf_Naf's plan is so much better!

very interesting idea. wish i had whatever program you're using. May i ask you if you wouldn't mind to take my original plan and make the following changes to see what it would look like: shift the kitchen up into the patio space, move the dining room down into the kitchen space and then the existing dining room becomes the patio. We could shrink down the pantry mudroom space to provide room for the dining. From the kitchen and the great room we could have sliding doors to the patio. If this isn't a huge project might be very helpful to see. Thanks again, very much appreciated!!

The program is just old good paint but I checked dimensions using cad and that's how I knew (for sure) that the mud, pantry and porch were too big.

The issue with what you want is that the dining will not get a window. Not good in my opinion.

Nice! Run with this!

I love that the mudroom is now accessed from both the formal entrance and the guest entrance.

can you provide more site info, I'm wondering as to the size, and why the garage takes southern sun, even if it's 20ft away from the house.

but how about something like this, I sketched it up last night but I can't post a picture at the moment. If i can in a while though, I shall, it's far more understandable than words
I worked around light being a priority and the south giving good lighting


someone brought up the point earlier that you have a long walk with no shelter between the garage and patio.
link the garage and house with the patio (rotated 90º from original plan's proportions)
this gives covered thoroughfare and east-west sunlight to the patio

have this lead to the locker area/ back entrance and separately to the kitchen. This can be arranged as you have it, locker area on the east, kitchen west of it, or reworked to give the kitchen at least some of the exterior east wall. you should, however, get some south facing windows in the kitchen. The pantry can be north of the locker area and kitchen
I'll go clockwise on the description from here

Then the dining area West of the kitchen, also getting south facing windows/ doors, and linking to the kitchen, patio & garden for entertaining

and to the west of that, the living room, again south windows, West too if you want.

North of the living room, the den, as drawn

east of the den, the entrance and staircase, aligning with the dining area

eastn of the entrance, a coat/shoes closet, and the bathroom


and upstairs, briefly, master bedroom on the south western corner
master bathroom and closet south of the bedroom
bedrooms 2 and 3 either along the south wall and a shared bathroom and laundry along the north wall
or bedrooms 2 and 3 along the east wall, bathroom along the south wall but with a window on the south wall too for the landing, laundry on the north wall

Sorry Najeebah. My brain won't process a plan described in words. The sketch by Naf Naf doesn't appeal to me at all. It solves one problem, kitchen access to light but turns it's back on an appealing outdoor space. Besides this plan is way too far along to start moving entire elements.

Besides this plan is way too far along to start moving entire elements.

Sorry but no plan is too far along to start moving elements if it's only on paper. It's a heck of a lot cheaper and better to do it before building than building it and realizing it was a mistake.

And yes, I speak from experience as we had sent our plans to permitting before we decided it wasn't right and pulled them back. And boy, am I glad we did!

And like others, to me the most important thing is bringing light into the house, especially into the kitchen. There is nothing more dreary than working in a dark kitchen. I know because our rental has no windows and no natural light.

If the plan were bad I would agree with you. I just haven't seen any real improvements suggested.

Summit,

Go ahead and show us a better option that actually helps the OP - but I can see that you do not consider a window to be important in a kitchen (I just saw pics of a couple of your kitchens).
To me, is about priorities and kitchen will be used all year long, several times every day. A porch in a cold climate will be used maybe for 5 months a few days a month plus, it is still possible to have a sliding door to access it, or windows at kitchen wall. as I said, this is not a plan, just a preliminary concept.

Summit, that doesn't mean that there isn't a better plan out there. It just mean that no one has figured out a way to take a mediocre plan and make it terrific. That's why I suggested starting from scratch. There must be a better way for the OP to get what they want and need in a home.

Again I will disagree with you Summit. You are entitled to your opinion but the rest of us are also entitled to ours. Since you have a problem with us critiquing other people's plans, maybe this isn't the forum for you.

Hi Summit - I agree with you in that the original design is extremely strong - it also received a pretty strong thumbs up from Virgil which I haven't seen too often.

J - how close are your neighbors to the east and to the west ? I'm curious as to how much sunlight you'll get through the windows on those two walls.

"Besides this plan is way too far along to start moving entire elements."

Certainly one approach to architecture. Would you tell that to your clients?

I've managed to draw this up on a different device. There's no exact proportions or scale at all, this is just a representation of ideas for locations, & I've only drawn up the ground floor.

Also, if the pantry is intended as a cool, dark place, you might want the fridge and freezer elsewhere, or at least partially separate from the dry goods

Nice work Naf!

Thank you for continued thoughts. The lot is an inner city lot. 120 feet deep by 50 wide. Max coverage of lot allowed is 60 percent. Sideyards of 4 feet so house max is 42 ft. From the side of house neighboors home will be about 8 ft away. I thought the kitchen woukd get decent light given the sliding patio doors and windows on south side of house are more or less floor to ceiling. But maybe not. Will the covered patio with screens dim things even more? Thx

even with floor to ceiling doors, what you effectively have is a room with windows on an exertior wall (patio) and a room open to the that room, without windows on an exterior wall (kitchen)
so it's 2 rooms deep, with windows on 1 side only, the patio isn't even open on 2/3 sides. you need the light to penetrate rather far in. wherever you are now, look outside and imagine a roof extending the depth of another room, with walls extending on the sides too
the skylight could help some, but still not much. It wouldn't be terribly dark, it would just be dark. it also doesn't give you much of an interesting view when in the kitchen. on the topic of light, if all 3 areas (kitchen, dining, living) can't get good exterior walls, preferably south facing, I'd prioritise the kitchen and living, not the dining as it would be less used

Totally minor thing. I wake up earlier than spouse. I have not lived with pocket doors in awhile but we had one in a condo on a recent trip. It is much more difficult to be super quiet with a pocket door in my limited experience. It also doesn't seal as well as a traditional door.

We share many design elements - our house is 51 feet wide with a rear entry garage. We considered detached but didn't want to be exposed to the elements when unloading the car - and we have a lot of elements here. If my backyard faced south in the North, I would probably accept detached garage, but there would be a covered walkway.

We have a similar coverage restriction except our is like 40% on a bigger lot. We are able to exceed it as long as we divert water. Just mentioning in case that is an issue for you. Grass driveways are an option but maintenance. So I suspect we will have a cistern with gutters directed there.

I'm guessing you have an alleyway in back?

Yes. We have an alley. Not allowed to attach garage.

Slow the bandwagon down for me!...

I like the plan a lot, it's pretty good as it is.

Foyer - I'd delete some/half of the wall to open it up a little. I think it would be pretty.

Dining - I don't think it's too far away, you'd save like 10' if you swapped the rooms... so I don't think distance is the deciding factor of whether or not you should shuffle rooms

Garage - I'd want to see it on the map to see if it affects your views at all. Not sure if you could slide the garage around at all, or if shuffling rooms could gain you a better view?

Master closet - I'd take another look at this. I love large closets, but square footage ends up being useless unless if you can get an island in there or arrange it differently.

Kids bathrooms - Love that there's window in there, but I see no linen cabinets and small countertops. Not sure of your situation, but I'm imagining 2 teenage girls that while lovely to have their own bathrooms, there is almost no counter space or storage for toiletries/makeup/etc. One could borrow space from the master closet, but the other idk. I'm also not a fan of the pocket doors for these bathrooms but that's personal preference

Very cool features in this design!

Thank you for your thoughtful feedback. Yes. Agreed on the kids baths. Will look at these again. I cant get the lot plan with the garage but if you can imagine directly behind the mudroom/patio is a 24 foot wide garage. There is 20 feet of distance between the garage and back of house. People have mentioned covering the walkway. Not an option due to coverage rules. Personally im concerned that the back of the house will be looking out at the garage on half this half of the house. I think thats why the designer put the kitchen facing the great room rather than the outside. So the way the plan sits now when you sit in the patio the garage is behind (the fireplace should probide a nice focal point). If i swap the location of patio and eating then the eating would take on the garage background while the patio would look into the more open yard. The yard is not large. I dont know whats better. If i swap rooms the eating is more practically closer to the kitchen. Thx again everyone.

found a nice example of the interior if we switched the patio/dining

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/555350197790057754/

j - looking at your pinterest pic, with the floor to ceiling windows and the skylight in your patio roof, I'm thinking you will get a good amount of light. If your neighbors are only 8 feet away on the side, I can see why you want to orient all views toward the center, front, and back of the house. The decisions of your architect make more sense now.

If you are concerned about the dining facing the garage, maybe you could install landscaping on the garage wall, or in some way make that wall interesting to look at.

thank you for your comments. Yes would have to work on my green thumb for the backyard for sure!

There's a lot you can do on the garage wall to make it interesting, including things like making it into a water feature, or plantings, or...

are 5x5 walk in closets reasonable for a kids bedroom? any thoughts on whether we should keep the window seats in the kids bedrooms or is it better to take those out to allow for more floor space for say a desk or something as they get older?

thx

J - 5' x 5' walk in closets should be more than fine, especially with a well designed closet system with drawers. This could free up the need for a dresser in their rooms, freeing up space for a desk, allowing you to keep the window seats, which are a pretty nice feature in my opinion.

You could also design the window seats so they are easily removable, in case you did have the need to take them out in the future.

I think your house has a lot of potential! I know you didn't initially ask re: the second floor, but I couldn't help taking a crack at it - especially regarding the laundry room & master closet... =) Basically the left-side bedroom gets a large reach-in closet, thus removing the weird bumps in the master closet. The right-side bedroom gets a bit more depth in its bathroom (storage!), and there's 70" of closet on one wall + room for hooks, mirror, etc on the remaining closet walls. The laundry room is a bit more narrow (33” between wall & machines) but no longer has the machines against your master bedroom wall.

Good luck - looking forward to your project going forward! =)

thank you for the good suggestions to the last couple replies. will have to give some direction on location of dining and patio. Given the pictures i attached the other day with the large patio doors is there a feeling the interior of the floor plan would still be too dark?? is there a strong feeling on whether the dining should be behind the kitchen or the patio?? thx in advance

J - I personally think your patio and dining area original positions are great. With the large patio doors and the skylight above the patio, you should have plenty of light.

Depending on the type and amount of additional dimensions / elevations you have at this stage, I'd be happy to do a quick 3-D model of your first floor and do a solar study to see how much light you'd get throughout the day / month / year. You're welcome to contact me via my pro page if you'd like.

Well, since you asked. The pics that you posted the other day with the dining room and patio switched just seemed to flow better. I guess it's just a little more traditional to have the patio off of the living room, rather than the kitchen. Again, just my opinion. Also, I would keep the window seats. :-)