Our cabinets are a very close match to GV, so that is why I have been considering it for our trim and colors for the walls that work well with it. I read somewhere that trim and ceilings should match cabinets. I don’t think I want my whole house GV though, due to four kids and all their chaos. We have a mixture of warm tones in our wood furniture and cooler tones in accents. At this stage, I’m getting a running list of color contenders :)

Here's another source that might be helpful. She mentions using SW Pure White or High Reflective White with Modern Gray.

https://www.kylieminteriors.ca/paint-colour-review-sherwin-williams-modern-gray-sw-7632/

Thanks. I worry either will make our Greek Villa cabinets look dingy.

Amber, it would be nice if Lori Sawaya could weigh in here. I know one thing she's mentioned before is a chroma difference of at least .20 can keep things from looking dingy.

My top contenders. GV being cabinets and trim. Natural Choice and/ or Shiitake for walls.

Why not going with coordinating color Snowbound?

Cabinets are not a custom paint. They’re a color of the cabinet maker. They’re a very close match to Greek Villa, which is why I’ve been trying to find colors that coordinate.

Amber has two posts going at once. I mentioned it is counter productive.

Judianna, thanks for calling me out on both. The other is deleted now. I couldn’t figure out how to delete or edit posts on the app when I posted, so it had to wait until I could get on my laptop. Do you have anything useful to add?

Instead: SW Natural Choice with GV trim.

It works technically because they're in the same tight hue family range. Natural Choice is darker and has more chroma so it's going to make Greek Villa look more like a color of white than an off-white.

And because of that - as well as the Value and Chroma - we know these two could look like the same color under certain lighting conditions and in certain contexts - a subtle tone-on-tone look; choose a matte finish so it's emphasized.

Lori, Thank you for your wisdom on Natural choice with Greek Villa. I assume that they may look the same in a room with a lot of direct sunlight? Is that right? I’m a novice 🙈 but trying to learn!

Matte finish for trim or walls? I was planning on doing a satin sheen for the walls to help with clean up.

Matte or eggshell for walls. Depends on the brand but in general --- if you buy a top tier grade of paint, it's just as wipeable as a satin.

Low, dim qualities of light is where the two will likely blend in to each other. Abundant and you're most likely to see each color's true characteristics.

Oh gotcha! Thanks for explaining that Lori. So probably in places like our north facing pantry, our half bath and closets. I’ll have to make sure to get good lights. Thankfully, those aren’t the areas of the house most frequently used.

Honestly, about lighting.... I think far too many over think it. The whole north light, south light, gotta get 4000K bulbs, blah, blah, blah.

Yes, it matters. Because if you change the light, you change how the color looks.

That's color 101.

However, when it comes to color constancy - which is how paint colors look wall to wall, room to room - your brain and vision system equalizes what it sees within a week or two and you won't even notice where you see more of a difference and where you can't.

Layer in decor and furniture and it's even less of an issue.

That makes sense! Thanks for breaking it down that way. I’ve lived in dark builder grade beige for the last 15 years and I’m so ready for a change, but don’t want gray. I’m drawn to all the lighter colors I see on Google and IG, hence my hesitation on the recommendation of Shiitake. I need to get a paint sticker to see it in person. Also, Natural Choice...

Carol! It’s beautiful! Thank you for sharing! There aren’t very many examples of shiitake use in homes, so your photos really help. It looks great! Provides some depth while not being overly heavy.

Lori, would Sw Grecian Ivory work with Greek Villa? I can’t find color data for it other than what SW’s site provides.

I'll get it for you this afternoon... BRB

Thank you Lori! I just had another color consult with the SW consultant and she recommended for the walls: SW Shoji White and trim: SW Greek Villa for the main areas of our house. Then suggested SW Grecian Ivory on the walls (with Greek Villa trim) for the darker areas of our home and kids’ room. Thoughts?

Consult’s recommended color palette. Blue is a place holder for blue base cabinets and island in kitchen (upper cabinets are Greek Villa).

I see no reason for Shoji. It sits in between Greek and Grecian and I question whether there would be any distinction that there are 3 colors.

You'd get essentially the same effect/look by using Greek Villa in different sheens.

Greek and Grecian at least have some nominal points of contrast and it's more likely you'll be able to discern that they are two different colors.

I'd consider editing out Shoji and simplifying the palette for all involved - including painting budget because I'm not sure Shoji would bring that much to the table for what an additional color change costs.

Oh wow! Thanks so much for showing me that Lori, it’s super helpful! Grecian Ivory and Shoji are really close. I do like Grecian Ivory in all the photos I see.

Thank again!

Lori, I didn’t think to ask earlier if there is enough difference between Natural Choice and Grecian Ivory to distinguish between them, if they were used in different rooms?

Lori, another thought - at this point, I’m only planning on the wall cabinets in my kitchen being the Greek Villa’esque color (cabinet maker’s color). The rest in our house, vanities included, will be a blue. The only trim in our kitchen that will be close to the wall cabinets will be a window, as we won’t have crown moulding. There is an adjacent dining nook with windows too. Kitchen faces north, dining nook south. Could I get away with using Alabaster or Pure White (or a better suggested alternative) for trim and ceiling to help make Natural Choice and/or Grecian Ivory walls show more contrast? My only concern is that using a different white on trim and ceiling may make the kitchen cabinets look dingy.

Could I get away with using Alabaster or Pure White (or a better suggested alternative) for trim and ceiling to help make Natural Choice and/or Grecian Ivory walls show more contrast?

Yes.

I'd choose Pure White. The more distance in Chroma you can put between the cabinet color and the trim the better.

Chroma tells you how colorful or neutral a color looks.

Technically Chroma is a ratio - a ratio of colorfulness to neutralness.

Neutral means a white, a value of gray, or black.

I'm sharing that nitty-gritty science stuff of Chroma because that's where the magic of managing color using Chroma lies.

Distance between Chroma values of white paint colors = contrast.

Chroma contrast - in white paint colors - squashes dingy and dirty.

It's a rule of thumb (ROT) that's meant for colors of white although it **can** apply to Light Near Neutrals and Neutral colors too. What happens in the case of LNNs and N colors is the whiter color looks more crisp.

But, again, it's a ROT targeted at colors of white.

Pure White and Greek Villa align very closely in terms of hue family and value - that means they go together. They differ in Chroma, which as you now know is important for them to work as a color scheme and/or integrate into a color scheme.

Thank you Lori for such valuable knowledge! So if I’m understanding correctly, all of these should work together then due to changing the trim color to Pure White?

if there is enough difference between Natural Choice and Grecian Ivory to distinguish between them, if they were used in different rooms?

We have to get deep in to the technical weeds of Value and LRV for this one.

Sorry. 🤓

Most importantly....

Can not just substract LRV values because it accomplishes nothing.

This is a great example of why. The LRV difference between Grecian Ivory and Natural Choice is 10.

Some people would tell you that's great and some kind of fantabulistic metric to use.

It's not.

They are wrong.

Because you can't simply substract LRV Values to determine anything. At all. Ever.

Because LRV tells you how light a color is - that's all it does. Period.

You have to look at Value. More often than not, Value is the more important and meaningful color data value to use.

Because Value tells you how light or dark a color looks to human eyeballs. Not how light or dark a color is. But how it looks.

If we go with the folks who have absolutely everything wrong possible about how to use LRV, (and I speak from first-hand experience) then it looks like Natural Choice and Grecian Ivory would be sure to show up as two different colors. Because there's a difference of 10 in their LRVs.

However, when we look at Value - the number that matters more - we can see just how close they are in terms of COLOR APPEARANCE not light reflectance.

To SEE a meaningful difference in lightness/darkness, there needs to be a difference of 1.00 (ish) (give or take a few) in Value.

To SEE a difference in lightness/darkness using LRV there needs to be a CONTRAST RATIO of at least 30% (ish) (give or take a few).

So the final answer to your question is maybe.

They might look like two different colors in two different rooms provided the inherent lighting is different. For example, put the darkest color in the darkest room, the lightest color in the lightest room.

If you're dealing with moderate inherent lighting throughout, I'd ask the question why bother and pay for two colors. Because odds are they're going to show up slightly differently in each room for different reasons any way.

should work together then due to changing the trim color to Pure White?

Yes. They all work well with Pure White. They all relate in terms of hue family and Pure White has a Chroma of 0.44 which is less in comparison to the other colors.

Wow! I really appreciate you geeking out for me and getting into the weeds. It is all very interesting and extremely helpful. I had considered Grecian Ivory for our North facing bedrooms and windowless bathrooms, but I think I’ll just stick to Natural Choice or try a different color if I’m not liking what it looks like in darker/ cooler natural light. We are still a long ways out from painting, but I’m excited! I’ll update when we do 🙂

My sample from Sampilize arrived. I’m a big fan of SW Natural Choice! Greek Villa is the white of the two. This house does not get a lot of natural light, nor have good lighting. This house has only 8 windows! Our build will have 30 windows plus glass doors. I’m excited to see what it looks like in a better lit house!

Greek Villa left, Natural Choice right

Following. Would love to see your pictures when available!

It will be awhile! We are in the financing stage now. We hope to break ground next month 🤞🏻

Good luck!

@Amber im in the same boat as you. Large family and really light walls not a great idea.

probably will do Greek villa cabinets and wood stain island. what countertops were you thinking?

I also want light oak floors. have you seen natural choice walls with light floors?

We are in drywall stage so need to make some choices soon.

Zory, I haven’t. But I did talk to a designer on IG who said white oak floors with a clear satin stain would be very pretty with natural choice. She also said red oak with a dark walnut finish would be a nice choice if you want a deeper / richer look. Natural Choice looks great with our darker wood furniture. This is a helpful guide I found to help with paint and wood floor pairings.

Whoops! I meant to include the link, not just my screen shot.

https://shorelinepaintingct.com/blog/best-hardwood-wall-color-combinations/

Amber, how is it coming??? Looking at green villa for our cabs/trim.

@cindy smith still trying to break ground! But we have decided on the Greek Villa’ish (cabinet maker’s color that is very close to GV) for our wall cabinets. Walls will be SW Natural Choice. I’m excited!

@Lori A. Sawaya it's me again! :P do you have color data for SW Ivory Lace? I'm trying to determine if it would work with Greek Villa.

Yes. We have complete color data profiles for all major brand's color in The Paint Color DNA Table.

Includes L (Lightness) C (Chroma) h (hue angle), Munsell Hue/Value, Chroma and LRV.

To answer your question, I wouldn't put these two together because they're too similar. Doubt they'd look like two distinct colors once installed. Would likely get the same result if you chose one in different gloss levels.

@Lori Sawaya thank you for that info! Definitely a no-go then. I have Creamy lined up with Greek Villa and based on what you told me above, it seems it will be my best bet if we decide we want a little more color on our walls than Greek Villa. Framing should start in a week! Can't wait to actually test these colors in our build once it's ready!

Chiming in to thank you Lori and Amber for this discussion. I am considering Ivory Lace for two bedrooms in my home and this is quite helpful, especially the DNA color table. Thanks again!

I plan to use Greek Villa and Natural Choice on alternating walls (because the west facing bedroom window makes Natural Choice too dark on two of the walls). Did you by chance finish your project and have photos? I’d love to see them together.

I ended up using SW Greek Villa for our whole home (including trim and ceiling), minus our kids’ bedrooms. It’s the perfect color to me. Natural Choice was just not light enough. I personally would not do GV on one wall and NC on another. They work well for tone on tone - so one on trim and the other on walls, but one on one wall and one on another I wouldn’t do.

Greek Villa at night. You can see how shadows affect it. It’s such a pretty color.

Master bathroom and kitchen with Sw Greek Villa.

Thanks for sharing the pictures! They’re all beautiful. I’ve actually just made plans to do the opposite of the advice, so we’ll see what happens. With our west facing bedroom, the colors look either too dark and harsh on 2 of the walls, or too light and faded. So we’ll be using Greek Villa and Natural Choice on alternating walls. I’m only doing my 11 year old daughter’s room. She wants a boho style room, and we have a terracota colored comforter and wood accent pieces ready. We don’t want to have to repaint trim in just one room, so those will stay with Behr’s Ultra Pure White like the rest of the house. Maybe I’ll share some pics when it’s finished. Wish me luck!

🤞🏻🤞🏻have fun!