Oh Sueb what a sweet daughter you are. All of those changing situations with our parents (driving, incontinence, cooking...) put us out of sync with the people who raised us and kept us safe and unashamed - it's a role reversal we have to take on. You did the right thing and I'm sure the facility has dealt with this many times.

Sorry I can't help as I've always been very upfront with my friends and family about bodily functions and health and medical issues. Mom had stress incontinence and one time I got her laughing so hard she wet her pants. Fortunately we were at home...I gave her a robe to wear, rinsed her pants out and threw them in the dryer. She was good to go...or not go....well YKWIM!

Only thing I can offer is take care of this sooner rather than later. Things like the chair and the mattress may already be so soaked that they'll have to be replaced. Fortunately there are so many wonderful incontinence products for men now that are quite comfortable....though they aren't cheap.

Agree with all of the above-- especially what a sweet and caring daughter you are. It is just so hard watching our parents age. I think in many ways, it's worse than watching ourselves age. It is hard to balance giving the support they need while preserving their dignity! I think you did the right thing reaching out to the nursing staff and his dr.

I used to pick up Depends for my grandmother when she was in assisted living-- but she requested them with no discussion needed. Does your dad have a means to get them himself? Does he still drive? Is he setup with instacart or walmart/target delivery? It is clear that he is at least partially aware of the problem so you may not need to initiate the uncomfortable conversation with him.

Aww, I'm sorry to hear this. Has he been tested recently for dementia; do you think that is possible? For now, I agree that it is best to have the nurses advise him to see first if they can find a solution.

In her later 80s, my mother had some mild form of incontinence. She got her ”supplies” by mail order from a place called Tena. I think she was on some sort of automatic re-order plan, which may work great for your dad once he is convinced he needs their products. I have no idea how she found out about it. It was never discussed.

@sueb I'm sorry. Dealing with aging parents can be hard. This is a hard situation for me anyway, because I feel very strongly about preserving dignity. I would wait and see what the nursing staff says and it may be less embarrassing for them to speak with your dad than him having that conversation with his daughter. I did not have that problem with my dad, but we have a relative that has been having the same problem. His is due to a medical condition. I would probably talk with your dad's dr and have him checked out to make sure there is nothing going on that would cause this. If it is just part of the aging process (or something than cannot be changed such as our relative), you can then get set up with depends, the waterproof pads to use on his furniture and bedding. You probably already have a mattress pad that is waterproof. Our relative is a veteran and I believe they pick up some of the expense for his products, not sure about that.

ETA: Sorry Sue, I went back and read through your post. I missed that you have contacted his doctor.

Depends offers free samples if your other attempts with doctors and staff don’t work out. Maybe if a mailed sample that looked like it came from the company would be tried out by dad. At some point he would find it handier than cleaning up the messes.

My dad would be very difficult in broaching that subject. I would have to do the company free sample route or just send an unmarked case to the house or do anything that didn’t require him admitting out loud that he had a problem. I would also get a sort of lidded pale. Sometimes the pee smell comes with covering up the evedence by placing pee stuff in a open garbage receptacle .

Thanks for your support, everyone! His kidney doc has ordered a urine test, which was not part of the tests yesterday, so I can easily say to my dad, oh, Dr M called and said the bloodwork looked fine but he meant to also do a urinalysis so we have to run back and do that. He (the dr) said it is possible that it’s a UTI, which would probably be the best case scenario. Still waiting to hear back from the AL staff.

In light of the UTI test it will be easy for me to ask him if he has any symptoms of a UTI…maybe he’ll tell me, maybe not. 🤷🏻‍♀️

He does not drive and isn’t tech savvy at all, so ordering anything online himself isn’t an option. I am not seeing any other signs of dementia other than his typical repeating of stories, but I did ask the AL nurse in my email if they have seen any other changes. My dad is the king of denial and doesn’t report symptoms unless he can’t hide them — which is one reason I’m glad he’s in AL — but they see him every day obviously so would hopefully notice anything unusual (or you’d think, but his “I feel great” mantra is quite convincing).

Sue, I’m in the same territory with my 88 year old mother and have talked about this same issues with my friends who have parents still living. If your Dad has a towel on his chair, he knows he has a problem. My Mom has acknowledged hers, especially lately now she’s taking so much Lasix for her heart. As she describes it, when she needs to go she has barely a minute to get to the necessary. However, even before the medication change she was putting a towel down on her reading chair. She bought Depends for herself for when it seems worse and for nighttime as it takes awhile for her to get up and to her bathroom in the mornings. In your place I would buy him a couple of packs of Depends and say you noticed the towel and know how difficult it can be to get to the bathroom in a hurry so you picked him up some disposable underwear to try. That’s the key…..presentation is everything. And just take them to his bedroom or bathroom and leave them there, no further discussion necessary unless he initiates it. Good luck, and bless you for respecting his independence while still trying to ake care of him.

Went through the exact same thing with my Dad, at the age your Dad is.

started with my sisters and I saying "does Dad's place smell like pee to you?"

When we all agreed that it did and were trying to figure out how to approach it, suddenly a towel appeared on his recliner. When I asked why it was there, he said once in a while I have trouble getting up and pee a little before I get out of my chair. Perfecr segue. We started out with Depends pads, so not full on diapers, just a heavy duty maxi pad. He was quite pleased as apparently he had been afraid that he smelled like pee to other people. Who knew? Anyway, he's 94 now and in long term care and immobile, so Depends are the order of the day, but the pads were a good transistion.

Depends Pads

I am so sorry youʻre going through this. I canʻt help you with having "the conversation" but I hope that the staff will be able to help you and guide you through this transition in a way that maintains your dadʻs dignity. I also think itʻs great that you talked to your fatherʻs doctor who will help you eliminate other medical reasons for incontinence. I was going to suggest the same thing as Nekotish. Start with pads before going to full on diapers. Also, my mother used a mattress pad - the sort you put under babies - for her bed. You could put this on your fatherʻs chair under a towel so it would be discrete. With regard to testing for dementia. That is a slippery slope. While a positive test will get him into the dementia ward with additional services, is this the path you want to take at this time? Does he need those services now? How would the diagnosis affect his dignity? Moving to the dementia ward is such a shock. Make sure you tour the ward and know what you are getting into. Once you have a dementia diagnosis, you can never go back and he will be labeled from here on out. My sister had my mother tested during a UTI. So mom was already in a state of delirium due to the infection - naturally her MMT came back positive. And they shipped her off to the dementia wing at 97. She never got over the transition and passed at 100 (covid - healthy otherwise). I have a strong bias against early diagnosis while in assisted living. I know there are loads of tests and treatments for dementia and early detection can be helpful in that regard, but at 87? How much poking and prodding does he want to endure? And a final note: if heʻs putting a towel on the chair and not discussing it, he might be "covering." Iʻm sorry I droned on. You can tell that after 2 years this is still a sore spot with me. I feel for you and what you are going through. Your father is lucky to have someone who cares enough to seek guidance and input.

Honu, great point and something that never occurred to me.

Thank you — he is most definitely not ready for the dementia/memory unit.

The nurse is going to check on him and was not aware of anything unusual going on. She said she’d tell him she’s doing a ”general well being check” so he won’t be embarrassed.

To be continued. Thanks, all.

He does not sound like someone with dementia. My dads dr always did a mental and memory check as part of my dads physical after a certain age.

First, my heart goes out to both of you. This is not the easiest thing to deal with because they still have their pride. My Mom is over 99. Older individuals can have a change in mood or behavior at different times of the day. Nighttime can be a tougher. Could there a medication he's taking that could be the cause of incontinence? Sounds like you've already taken action, so I hope there is a simple solution. One other thought, if you smell urine, has anyone else that enters his room? Would they report that to someone?

I wonder if he is having the problem that when he gets up to go he loses some bladder control. That happened to my mom and at first she was able to just use pads, but as he muscle tone continued to deteriorate (she also was on diuretics) that just didn't cut it. She eventually went to the pull up underwear type product (sometimes with a pad too!). He sounds fairly spry so maybe not the same issue. Glad you have the nurse to help. Caring for an aging parent is tough!

I hope the nurse can work things out with him. If that doesn't work, my approach would be to have the conversation, opening with something along the lines of, "The doctor mentioned to me that sometimes the effects of .....(fill in medicine or whatever medical condition he has) is that people can have trouble with their bladder control. I don't know if that is a concern for you, but I'm going to get some supplies for you just in case you find you need them in the future."
If the chair is already urine soaked, that will be trickier, but maybe just approach it as time for a new, more comfortable chair. Maybe get some disinfecting wipes for the bathroom floor, if you think he would use them (and not get mixed up and use them on himself). Maybe some flushable body wipes for his own hygiene, along with pads for the chair and bed. Make sure, if he wears slippers, that they are washable and get washed, as urine can run into those, too.

He would know it if he had an UTI. Prostate problems would definitely cause leakage.

In the meantime I'd call the staff asap and ask if they checked on him and took things men wear for incontinence, and the staff needs to stay on top of this. How could they have not noticed? Do they make daily wellness checks? I wonder if they wear a covid mask which would explain why no one caught the odor.

He may not smell anything because I think our sense of smell gets worse as we age. Good luck and I hope it's nothing serious.

Contact his nephrologist for advice/referral to urologist.

Before deciding on treatment options, need an accurate diagnosis.

Sueb, this isn't necessarily for you, but I wanted to mention that a UTI can cause dementia like symptoms. A friend that works in geriatrics told me to have my mom tested for a UTI when she suddenly developed mild dementia like symptoms in her late 80s. I wasn't aware of this and try to pass on the info in case it helps others.

Yes, getting tested for UTI as soon as I can get him there. Still playing phone tag with dr’s office.

Someone comes to his apt 2x a day for meds, but she is masked and only there for a minute. No one needs to check on him otherwise because he’s always roaming around socializing, doing activities, etc. (All within the building, and yes everyone is still masked.) I’m assuming if he wet his pants outside his apt, someone would have said something. So yesterday may have been the first full-blown pants-wetting incident when previously it was more of a dribble or a whoops on the bathroom floor. We had been at the dr, out for about 2 hrs, then at his apt for an hour, and he hadn’t been to the bathroom during that time. Maybe the change in routine threw him off which means more cognitive issues again. But UTI could wrap up all of this… we’ll see.

He is on a diuretic but that’s not new. He had already mentioned months ago (at dr visit) that he was urinating frequently. As far as I knew, he meant IN the toilet! 😜

(Hugs)

Hopefully It's a UTI. At his age it could be a number of things. Is he the type who never complains or tells anyone they don't feel good and keep things to themselves?

I would tell the staff when they check on him to lift their mask and start the sniff test.

Sue, yesterday was the first day I was at school for the whole day without my mask. At one point, a bunch of kids crowded around me and I thought, "Wow, you guys do not smell very good".

So, that's my anecdote about good masks and bad smells.

Best wishes for a quick and not too awkward solution.

My dad has had bowel and urinary problems for decades. The length he will go to in order to avoid just buying and using incontinence products is confounding to me. He gets violent when I even casually mention it. And he's getting funny about not wanting to do laundry so as to not wear out the washer and dryer. He's a wealthy guy, so I don't know where this is coming from other than part regression since he grew up poor, and part not wanting to deal with replacing an appliance, even though I would do it for him no problems. He has an anxiety disorder as well, so all this just ramps up his weird anxious behavior but he finds no peace in just dealing with it. As a woman who had to wear pads of one sort or another most of her adult life, wash out blood stains, suffered from chronic urinary tract infections, and as biologist, I just say get real and just do whatever, who cares. But that is lost on my dad. Not sure what the magic pill is for someone like him. Usually someone else who he isn't as invested in saving face in front of as opposed to a daughter, and doing it "in secret" or somehow on the sly is what seems to work for my dad.

It's going to get worse for my Dad because he will not necessarily be on board with having himself checked for all of the conditions mentioned here, many of which I can see could or do apply to my Dad. So be thankful that at least you have the resources of the assisted living facility at your disposal. It's kind of frustrating to me that my dad really needs other people to assist him and he won't take simple help and assistance from me, but that's the way it goes. I think most AL places are aware of strategies to deal with this because it is a common problem and UTI's and other bladder and kidney problems are always something to look out for. And many can be treated and improved upon or at least dealt with to make the elder more comfortable.

Pink, I am thankful every day that my dad is such an easy, cheerful guy. I am so sorry you have to deal with so much negativity with your dad.

Oakley, he is 100% that guy who ”feels great” no matter what. He was even saying it from his hospital bed 2 years ago when everyone thought he was dying.

I appreciate all the comments, sorry I can’t address each of them but I am reading and I thank you all!

Piggybacking

My sis buys Walmart's Equate Assurance brand incontinence underwear - it saves her $$$$ They're equal to Depend but about half the price

They also offer them for men as well

My dear aunt was in this same situation. She always smelled vaguely of urine and relied on disposible underwear for nights. We didnt have active conversations about it, (her daughter did though) but we kept the closet stocked so that she didnt have to ask for more. She often soaked through them at night and I, her personal laundress, (ours is the only cottage with a w/d), would tell her that a wet bed it was a huge victory, that it meant that she was fully hydrated. (I t was a huge challenge to get her to drink enough water. Pro tip: bendy straws).She would laugh at that. she was dx’d with late stage parkinson’s this summer and died in november. (incontinence was the least of her physical problems.) I guess my point is that for some happy, jokey people like my aunt, humor can help with difficult conversatios.

you’ve talked about your dad before and it is so obvious that he lights up any room he is in . I bet he will handle these conversations good naturedly).

(sorry to go on, but I miss my aunt and it feels good to evoke her memories.)

What a bunch of sweeties. Sue, Jojo et al. Good peeps.

Jojo, he is delightful but also stubborn and proud. And also hell bent on preserving his ”nothing is wrong with me” image.

Anyway, I spoke to the nurse yesterday. She is so sweet. Long story short, today she was going to bring my dad some depends and tell him ”oh, we make these available to all the men who live here…I’ll just put them in the closet here for you in case you need any.” Then she will check in a few days to see if he’s used any. If so, we will magically keep him stocked through her. Tomorrow I’m taking him for the test so more info to come.

He has progressed from stage 3 to stage 4 kidney disease fairly quickly so I suspect he’s not going to live to be 102 like he’d planned. I just hope he can continue to feel good and have his quality of life and dignity as long as possible. I am so fortunate that we were able to move him to be closer to us two years ago.

I am glad the nurse is helping! That is what it took for my dad-someone other than me! I would gently offer hints and he would always say, "So, I am a stinky old man now, huh?" (not in an angry way at al)l. Always positive like your dad. He got over any embarrassment pretty quickly and even called me once for help pulling them up! I still miss him.