I too believe the terms are synonymous. I always referred to the generic term as pasta, but sometimes (rarely really) use noodle when referring to a specific type of long skinny pasta. I just use the term spaghetti, fettucine, or macaroni without tagging on the term noodle. My Italian friend, who practically raised my DD did the same.

Trying think when I’d say noodles, aside from Asian foods I’d use it for egg noodles which are in fact noodles and for elbows. I looked at the box and half expected it to say Elbow Noodles as that’s what i grew up calling them.

"I never heard the term ”pasta” used until the 80’s. It was just the name spaghetti, not spaghetti noodles or spaghetti pasta. Lasagne was the same way. The other shapes of pasta or noodles didn’t show up in the stores until the 90’s."

You must live away from any large cities :-) The term 'pasta' and a wide variety of pasta shapes and sizes have been commonplace here (large metropolitan area) for nearly as long as I have been cooking! Certainly well before the 90's!!

My childhood was very "white-bread suburban, middle-middle income level". Never far from large cities (east coast or mid-west), but grocery stores didn't stock the variety (of everything, cheese for example!) we are used to today. So when did pasta shapes start showing up -- I know they were around by the early 90's when my daughter was born. They weren't common in the early 80's when I started shopping for my own self. So sometime in the mid- to late- 80's the explosion of shapes became so common even my area experienced it.

Pasta was an Italian borrow word until the 1970’s or ’80’s. That is, it was in use in the USA but mostly by Italians, italian adjacents, people who had beem to Italy, foodies (back then they'd have called themselves gourmets even if they didn't meet the main definition of that) and snobs. Noodle was the common term in most American homes where there was no Italian influence. Currently, pasta is used for any Italian form, as in, ”What kind of pasta is that?” “Linguini.” and noodle is used for all Asian versions, and people call cous cous, which is a Middle Eastern pasta, a grain, and others call orzo, a rice shaped pasta, “rice” in a way that implies it's a grain also. People I know differentiate it as pasta are shaped and noodles are rolled and cut or stretched and long. Many do say ”lasagna noodles”, which does fit this definition. Pasta just means paste, as in flour plus water. Noodle is from German meaning strip of dried dough. So ”linguini noodles” is correct because they're long and flat strips, and ”linguini pasta” is correct because ”linguini” is Italian for tongues, and no one says tongue noodles the way they say elbow noodles.

None of which matters. I understand Floral's curiousity about American language, but it's not as if she didn't know what was meant if someone said penne noodles. And most literate Americans know what ”frock” means, but would never normally say it outside of constructions like ”frock coat” or ”defrocked” which have nothing to do with ladies’ dresses.

To further expand the theme: When and where is it pasta 'sauce' and when is it 'gravy'?

Pasta (or marinara - the term I use) is called gravy in NYC, especially among Sicilian-Americans there.

I’m simply interested. This is the only place I get to ’converse’ with Americans and I find the differences in language and customs fascinating. Sorry if my being curious offends anyone. In my defence, my first degree was in linguistics.

The two words are not interchangeable over here. The usage is as pillog describes. When I read the intial post I thought the topic was Asian cuisine. The reference to De Cecco disabused me of that idea. Hence my question.

I’ll refrain from commenting on gravy, for fear of upsetting those of delicate sensibilities. And I don’t know when I last heard the word frock. 😉

Floral, if any one is offended they are way too sensitive. My SIL was from Scotland and moved to the US when she married my BIL. There was plenty of times she had to ask what we were talking about and vice versa. Nobody was offended.

Floral, our shared language differences can be so fun. So ya'll don't use "frock" much anymore? that's sort of disappointing, it's such a charming word. I heard (well, read) it quite often in the early 2000's on a London music groups forum. People were always saying they needed a new frock (dress), were looking forward to a knee's up (party), chuffed (pleased) about something or other. Oh well, good times (and none of it taken too seriously).

As far as I know, older Italian-heritage people called tomato sauce "gravy". Maybe someone closer to the action will chime in to say what it's currently called.

The American language is not uniform throughout the country, and I doubt British English is either, but I've not been to UK personally. I've met British tourists in Europe and Canada, and some of them I can understand better than others. I could not understand the Cockney that I heard in Vancouver BC, and I sometimes turn on English subtitles for movies made in Britain.

When I moved to San Francisco from Texas, I had a roommate from NYC (who had Sicilian heritage) who spoke much differently than I did, but I had lots of friends from NYC, and he had lots of friends from Texas. He would say things like "I'm going to put up some gravy" that meant he was going to start making marinara sauce, but to me it sounded like he was going to put something away. When he would say "Get outta here," I thought he wanted me to leave. That took the longest for me to get used to.

I only use the term noodles if talking about an egg noodle or lasagna. If talking about pasta, I usually refer to the specific type: Elbow macaroni, spaghetti, penne, fettuccine, linguini, etc. I use the term pasta when discussing the family of pasta in general, never spaghetti pasta, penne pasta, etc. That would seem redundant to me.

I have often heard any red sauce/marinari used on pasta called gravy, but the person using the term is usually Italian or raised in an area with an Italian influence.

"Noodle was the common term in most American homes where there was no Italian influence."

Is this an example of regional usage differences? This wasn't my experience at all growing up in a West Coast family with no prevailing ethnic practices. "Noodles" were in Chinese food. "Macaroni" was the word for a dish with cheese or a salad of same. Otherwise, Italian-style dishes were called by the name of the shape with no other words used - whether spaghetti, linguine, etc. When my mother made casseroles, she may have said "elbow macaroni". But I never heard the word "noodles".

As far as "gravy" for tomato sauce, I think this is an affectionate pet name that came into use in Italian-American families to describe what was often Grandma's all-day effort (with everything but the kitchen sink thrown in) in advance of a family meal. Sometimes also called "Sunday Gravy", again, as a pet name. Not referring to gravy, which is something different of course, but "gravy" in the sense of putting it over many types of food. Just as if calling Grandpa's homemade wine "juice".

This morning, no shortage of any pasta or noodles of any kind, but no oyster crackers. I did learn how to make eggs noodles, like for stroganoff, from here, but like Pinkmountain, I will buy unless an emergancy.

As far as I know, older Italian-heritage people called tomato sauce "gravy". Maybe someone closer to the action will chime in to say what it's currently called.

As Elmer said, his gravy term is Italian-American. Most Italian-Americans do not speak Italian or have much connection to Italian culture as it exists in Italy. Pasta based dishes are described by the type of pasta, as Elmer points out, and the sauce served with the dish. So linguine (small tongues) with lemon sauce might be served, or perhaps orrichiette (small ears) with broccoli rabe. The generic Italian meat sauce is called a Bolognese sauce (Bologna, home to the oldest University in the world, is known for its meats.)

Floral, I found the question interesting too. I thought the poster must have meant to use noodles as a generic term, maybe the way we say maccherone in Italian, IDK. Personally, I never use the term noodles, unless modified by the word egg.

PS Pasta in Italian refers to dough and comes from the word for paste, which you probably know.

PPS Ever watch Pasta Grannies? Love them!

Tried to post video, failed. Here is a link:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCedsqpl7jaIb8BiaUFuC9KQ

Elmer, there are always exceptions to every generalization.

What is gravy? A sauce made with pan drippings. Yes, you can substitute other fats and liquid, season it like gravy, and call it gravy because you're pouring it on your food in a gravy way, and that's fine, but the foundation of gravy is not its sauce for the whole plate-ness, but drippings, and the others are extentions of that for their similarity.

Awhile back after discussions in CF and some online research, I came to the conclusion that the Northeast Italian-origins community calls ithe sauce ”Sunday gravy” or ”red gravy” because it had meat or meat drippings in it, and was sloshed on meat or meatballs as well as in pasta.

Words aren't absolutes. Different people say things differently. Things catch on, spread, and change. Lacking a word for a new meaning another word conveying the idea is chosen. A belfry is a moveable tower used in battle. When people started putting bells in towers, they looked like, and perhaps were constructed like, belfries, plus the first syllable makes them sound like they should be for bells, so the name stuck long after the war machine was mostly forgotten. 90% of communication, according to the books, is non-verbal. Hence the invention of emoticons in the earliest days of the internet.

To this day, people make the sauce the way nonna did, with a whole roast simmering away in the pot. Why boil it separately and lose all the goodness in water? The sauce is the braising liquid. The juices from the meat become the drippings in the gravy. Even though it's a cheap, tough piece of meat, it's enough to feed the whole family, tender from the long cook, helped by the acidic tomatoes to break down the connective tissue, and while pasta may stretch a tight budget in a satisfying way, Sunday best means everybody gets meatl

Someone else's nonna used the water from boiling the meat wa the foundation for the sauce, Others roasted the meat and literally put the drippings in the saucel Some just browned scraps of meat in the pot and left them in. Foods are often some of the first things one learns in a new culture. What's that on the meat and potatos? Gravy. Stir some flour and [liquid] into the pan after you remove the meat and catch all the goodness. [Cool!] Now there's a word for the Subday red sauce.

For those of you finding a shortage of pasta --- order directly from Delallo.

https://www.delallo.com/

I commented because of your sentences "Noodle was the common term in most American homes where there was no Italian influence." and "So ”linguini noodles” is correct ...". I simply said that when and where I grew up (baby boomer), the term "noodle" wasn't used or heard outside of its use for Asian food. Which, at the time, was mostly of Chinese origin.

The word gravy when used has an unambiguous meaning as to what it broadly is and what it's used for. Neither the ingredients nor process to make is a factor by those who use it, it's like a type of table condiment. It can come out of a can or from a package too. It's specific and not general, just as no one would call their beverage a liquid, as in "pass the liquid please". You can insist it's otherwise if you want.

My experience is that calling tomato sauces of any kind "gravy" is playful and even self-deprecating in a family or among people of Italian origin, whether cooked all day or out of a bottle. It describes the end result, not the process or ingredients.

And to Zalco's correct comment:

"PS Pasta in Italian refers to dough and comes from the word for paste, which you probably know."

In French, it's "pate", likely the same latinate root as Italian.

We just call them noodles, never egg noodles. As in "Get the package of noodles out of the pantry please." I never even thought about Chinese noodles since we never buy them. And what would you call German Spaetzle? Noodles or pasta?

Just got back from the grocery store. They were completely stocked with egg noodles and pasta.

I call spaetzle, spaetzle. This conversation is making me hungry. I am so tempted to make some spaetzle ... must. resist.

Yeah, spaetzle is spaetzle. In Germany or in a German restaurant, you know what it is. If you saw "pasta" on a menu in a restaurant in a German speaking area, expect a dish of Italian influence, likely with some kind of tomato sauce on it.

When I was growing up there was spaghetti and macaroni, "pasta" was only listed on Italian restaurant menus......and noodles were only found in cans of Campbell's soup.

Spaetzle are dumplings.

I grew up in Brooklyn, and my Italian friends referred to it as sauce for Sunday dinner. As I recall, I only started to hear of gravy when we moved to New Jersey.

Similar to Sherry, I think I only saw the word pasta on menus.

We only knew spaghetti and "elbow macaroni". Noodles were the egg noodles.

Tomato Tomahto

"Spaetzle are dumplings."

No, dumplings are knoedel. As in leberknoedel (liver dumplings) or kartoffelknoedel (potato dumplings)

Spaezle are like large orzo.

My Italian roommate in SF was born in Manhattan while his parents were living in Little Italy, near The Bowery, which is where he said his father used to hang out. When they could afford it, his family moved to Queens, which is where he grew up, and I believe his grandmother moved there with them. Anyway, he always said "gravy" and never "sauce." Maybe Brooklyn is different from Little Italy.

His grandmother had a heavy Sicilian accent, but his mother had more of a Brooklyn accent, rather than Queens. Richard, however, sounded like he was from The Bronx, and he did not talk like his mother or grandmother, both of whom I had talked with on the phone.

When I was growing up there was spaghetti and macaroni, "pasta" was only listed on Italian restaurant menus......and noodles were only found in cans of Campbell's soup.

No homemade egg noodles? Those were the best!

I make spaetzle. They are indeed a kind of dumpling. The name isn't dumpling, but the method of making is.

Here's what spaetzle looks like, they're not dumplings but rather small pieces of egg pasta. If your recipe comes out looking differently, then it's something else. Click to enlarge.

Here are potato dumplings:

It’s a long time since I ate Spaetzle but the one’s I’m familiar with from living in Bavaria were made by extruding a dough through a special Spaetzlepresse straight into boiling liquid. The result was thick worms not balls. German wiki refers to them as ’Nudeln’ ie pasta.

I think of Spätzle as small dumplings. Some people call them noodles, but more people call them dumplings, from what I have heard.

Here's another recipe, which calls them "little sparrows."

Spaetzle is referred to online as dumplings by numerous sources (including German ones) but most refer to them both as a soft pasta noodle OR a dumpling. I doubt it is quite so cut and dried as some posters would have us think :-)

"Thick worms" is a good description. And nudeln is also on the mark, I suspect it's the origin of the English word noodle.

Here in PA noodles were egg noodles put in soup or a casserole. All others were pasta. Never was sauce called gravy and I never heard that until an Italian friend used the term. I just was cleaning my pantry and threw out four boxes of expired Barilla angel hair pasta. We just don't eat pasta that much. However, I glanced at the pasta aisle at the grocery store and saw it was partially filled, but again for the 10th week in a row, no Fancy Feast. I called the company this week and they were sympathetic and sent me coupons for five purchases. They expire in March and I doubt I'll see FF by then. So cats have been eating Wilderness and still living the good life but they miss their flaked fish and shrimp FF.

Not all dumplings are balls!

The German nudel is in fact the origin of "noodle". As I said previously, it meant flat, dry strip of dough.

What I've noticed is that Walmart's pasta/noodle section is always skimpy but if I go to a different store, it is fully stocked. Normally I just go to Walmart because I can get all things and don't have to run to a bunch of different stores since the covid hit. I used to go to several stores to buy my groceries but now it's "in and out nobody gets hurt" for me...HAHA!

Arkansas I agree, walmart is skimpy on some items normally. The two different walmarts I go to are both skimpy on some basic item. They have a whole isle of all different kinds of candy or 50 million types of frozen pizza, but their spice section is pitiful. Same with the flours, soup base , etc. Aldi's I noticed are heading the same direction since non food items are taking up more shelf space.

A little off topic but the mention of dumplings and "thick worms" made me think of something I saw in Fine Cooking yesterday. Anyone heard of "schupfnudeln?" The name is new to me but they're just "...finger-shape potato dumplings from southern Germany and Austria."

With pot roast and veggies...

It appears a difference between pasta/noodles and dumplings is that while the former is made of only a few customary ingredients - flour, water, and sometimes egg, dumplings include these plus other ingredients usually in substantial part and in some cases can be "stuffed", as with Asian dumplings of various kinds.

One recipe I found for schupfnudeln described it as being a German form of gnocchi, although traditionally cooked by pan frying. The predominant ingredient in Schupfnudeln is potato with only a little flour added to it. Like gnocchi, it would seem because of its ingredients to be not a type of pasta or noodles, the name notwithstanding. Dumpling for both the German and Italian variants seems right.

Noodles can be made of things other than flour - rice or buckwheat for example. And there are certainly types of dumplings which have very few ingredients.  Then we have ravioli, tortellini and agnolotti, all containing multiple ingredients and stuffed, yet normally thought of as pasta.  I think we're getting caught up in meaningless distinctions here.

Yes as to rice noodles and a few Italian exceptions that are very pasta like. It doesn't much matter.

Yes as to buckwheat as well (soba noodles are one of my favorites). And yes as well to cellophane noodles made out of things like potato starch. And udon noodles have a very dumpling-like consistency.

I'm not sure what cooking methodology has to do with it, since dumplings are often cooked the same way as pasta.

I have always associated the term "pasta" specifically with Italian cuisine and " noodles" with various Asian cuisines, because there are obvious, important differences between those cuisines. I just don't see the same significance in the term "dumpling. " They can be simple or complex, and belong to many cuisines.

Chloebud, you are ruining my diet! Those look amazing.

@Lars - that My Drunken Kitchen YouTube video gave me a good laugh! My German is rusty but I loved the word play. Danke schoen.

"One recipe I found for schupfnudeln described it as being a German form of gnocchi..."

Elmer, that did cross my mind. The ingredients they give for "Basic Schupfnudeln" are russet potatoes, flour, salt, egg yolks and butter.

"Chloebud, you are ruining my diet! Those look amazing."

Zalco, they do look tasty! Along with the pot roast recipe (Parsley Schupfnudeln With Red Wine Braised Pot Roast), they include a recipe for Chive-Tarragon Schupfnudeln With Braised Chicken and Spring Veggies.

From Merriam-Webster: dumpling: a small mass of dough cooked by boiling or steaming

caflowerluver, I haven't looked lately for noodles - or pasta - but I learned to make egg noodles by hand when a small child and can whip up a batch pretty quick, so a darth of those wouldn't present a problem for me.

In Omaha, Nebraska, in the 50s, we had: noodles; spaghetti; macaroni (for salads); potatoes; and rice; that was it ! I remember a recipe that called for Acini de Pepe when living in Wisconsin in the 70s. I had to hunt for such a pasta in more than a few stores to find it. (Such a wild thing. ) Probably had to go to Old Italy in Milwaukee to find it.

My German/American Mother occasionally made potato dumplings that were heavenly tasting and shapped like a long, skinny, breakfast sausage. Never did learn to make those because she always made those when alone.

My DD lived in Berwyn - suburb of Chicago - in the 90's . The Italian/American neighbors always called what they put on their pasta "gravy".