OTR MWs: Pros: If you have a very, very tiny kitchen, it may be the only way to get a MW in the kitchen. Cons: Poor venting...even those that vent to the outside do a poor job. Not only are the cfms lower, but most OTR MWs do not cover the front burners and have no place to capture and hold the smoke/grease/steam/odors for venting out. (The recirculating type are almost useless in this regard.) Poor functionality...if someone is working at the range/cooktop and someone needs to use the MW, the person cooking has to get out of the way...not only once but at least twice (put food in/take food out), more if the food needs checking and/or stirring. Too high for most people to use safely. For most people, the food is taken out of the MW at head level...which means it's more difficult to keep level and steady and if you spill anything the hot food could hit your face. It's even worse for short people, children, and older people. You have to reach over a hot range/cooktop and the hot food on it to access the MW...think about a steam pot of boiling water and reaching through the steam to get to the MW. It's even more dangerous if you have gas b/c now you're also reaching over a flame and if you're wearing loose clothing it can catch fire (someone here told us their sweater caught fire!) Separate MW and Rangehood Pros: Effective venting...not just b/c of higher cfms. Rangehoods also have a larger overall capture area front & sides as well as an area to capture and hold the smoke/steam/grease/odors for venting outside. Better MW...you can usually get a MW with more functionality for less. Also, most MWs don't last as long as other appliances so you will most likely have to replace it long b/f you have to replace anything else (especially a rangehood! I've never heard of a rangehood being replace b/c it no longer works!) Allows you to have a much better functional layout. You can place the MW where it's best functionally: Usually near the refrigerator and a water source (since most foods need water added for MWing) On the periphery of the kitchen so it's accessible not only to those working in the kitchen, but also to "outsiders" looking for a snack without the snackers getting in the way of those working in the kitchen. Cons: Cost is more. Recommendations Plan a place for your MW. There are many options: Built-in or in placed in an alcove in a tall oven cabinet (over a wall oven or over drawers, etc.) Build a shelf beneath an upper cabinet. It should only take up the space of one shelf. MW Drawer undercounter MW alcove undercounter to place a "regular" MW inside. (I do not recommend this b/c it requires a lot of bending and/or reaching blindly inside the MW with hot food!) Some people do have them and are OK with them. If you're entire family is short, it might be acceptable (not ideal, but acceptable). On the counter...especially if you have a "Snack Center" with plenty of...

The big question on the counterspace, since you're remodelling to get it, is what do you want to use it for? How many appliances go on it? The MW isn't on the counter. So what else? Coffee maker? Non-tangerine mixer? Canisters? TV? Boombox? Knife block? Wine rack? Paper towel holder? Blender? Juicer? Food processor? Coffee grinder? George Forman? Bread maker? Grain mill? Mug tree? Cookbook holder? Telephone? Mail? Keys? Fruit bowl? Toaster/toaster oven? Kids who insist on sitting on the counters no matter how much you try to teach them not to? Cats? There's a lot more that could go there. But what do you actually keep there? Honestly. If it was there in a smaller kitchen, it'll likely still be there. :) What the increase in counter space will give you is the ability to have two or three people working in the kitchen at once. More space for plating, baking, cooling, and other horizontal surface tasks (that can also flow onto the kitchen table). A place to set up a buffet if your home is horizontal surface challenged. A place to put all of your ingredients out while prepping, rather than just what you're currently working on. I don't think that you'll miss the 2.5 feet that much. There are kitchens that just don't have enough counterspace, as you well know. But once you have enough, that's all you need. My new kitchen has a lot less counterspace than the old one did, but that counterspace was useless and just collected clutter. For actually working at the counter, you need just about the span of your arms at hip level. The rest is all about what else you want to use the counter for. Your pros and cons list is excellent, but going back into fulfilling-dreams-ville, here's mine: Pro: 1. Fulfill wall oven dream. 2. Much easier to use compared to all of your mentions of "low" on range ovens in other threads. Con: 1. Lose 2'-3' of the counterspace that was the whole reason for starting this anyway. As to the things you're giving up, you can also plan for now and later. For instance, something like an Advantium might be a budget buster now, but if you make your microwave enclosure and electrical service the size and shape to accommodate one in the future if you decide you really do want/need a second oven, then you could change it out without being limited by your structure. Similarly, if you put a warming drawer sized drawer, with the correct plug available, you can also add it later. In other words, get the beautiful, functional kitchen now, put in some flexibility, and get the toys later when you have a toys budget.

prospect711: Thanks for your reply! I had my eye on the Sharp R-820JS, which is the stainless steel sister of your Sharp! (It sounds like an amazing appliance that pretty much does it all!) I just couldn't figure out how to get the size to work. Having a deeper cabinet is a Very interesting idea! I'm going to show this to DH to see if we can somehow swing it with our Ikea cabinetry. Thanks again! (Love your cabinets and beautiful backsplash!) Luv2Laf: Your photo is Exactly what I wanted it to look like! And right next to the fridge seems like such a perfect spot! If only it had convection too - I was really hoping for a little back up oven to cook and reheat small meals. Hmmm... Thanks so much for your reply, gorgeous photo, and the food for thought! colorfast: Okay, so it seems that the microwave/convection combos, unless they are the very wide OTR type, are pretty deep. I'll stop hunting for one that isn't. (No more wild goose chase!) We were planning on having 15" wide cabinets flanking the fridge on either side as a pantry (floor to almost ceiling height), but, maybe we should make one wider set of cabinets instead, where we can put the microwave/convection oven. I love how you have yours next to a counter. That seems to be an ideal setup to me. As for recessing it into the wall, I think we're out of luck, since the wall backs a stairwell leading to the basement as well as the stairs leading upstairs. I'm not sure that we can mess with that. I will share these ideas with DH. Thank you for your reply!

You need a comprehensive design plan, and budget plan. A successful kitchen will live within those limits. It can't absorb 5 different budget busters, nor can it deal with 5 different ''must have because I'm in love'' elements. There are a lot of right choices for the different elements that neither bust the budget nor shout ''I'm the star''. Learn how to put together your kitchen with those, with your superstars then carefully selected to fit into those surroundings. That may or may not mean choosing a counter that you love, since you state that the range and venting were your ''must haves''. You can't have it all. Decide what are the musts, within the overall context. Not as each element as an individual. That is T-R-O-U-B-L-E. Remember that none of these pretty things will ever love you back. Some can perform better, and that is always worth considering as an ''upgrade'', but not if it blows the budget, or skews the other choices. For instance, a 14K refrigerator shouldn't even be on the table if that choice makes you consider skimping in another area, like not choosing a pro to correctly install your floors, or you decide to skip adding lighting. "Splurges'' should NEVER mean that another element gets shorted to below a reasonable standard.