I cannot imagine things here in my state will be very much improved from what's going on now. Vaxxed close family members are planning on coming. They were already here for about a month this summer, which was wonderful.

Since most of our local friends & family are vulnerable, despite being vaxxed, I don't foresee any big to-dos. There is one family that refuses to vax, so that's out of the question. Others out of state are also quite vulnerable and not traveling.

My mom is 91 and we're keeping her as safe as possible. Her home is where the big gatherings always took place in the past.

We rarely get any trick or treaters for years now.

It's a higher infection rate, with deadlier results. Why should anyone be back to "normal" yet? Why risk it? Americans confuse me.

Higher infection rate of a deadler more infectious disease. With limited resources, and really exhausted hospital workers. Why is anyone risking anything? Not to mention, even vaccinated people can be infected by this variant.

No, I will not participate in spreading this disease! Especially to anyone I could kill (small children who can't get vaccinated!)

I was really looking forward to passing out Halloween candy this year as I opted out last year due to the pandemic, even though my town still had their trick or treat. Not happening again this year for me. I got put on the schedule to work it anyway, even though it's my normal weekend off. Oh, well....

Yeah, it's a puzzlement to me as well how so many people seem to be acting as if it's over and we're in the clear now - not!

If you are vaxxed you have no more to worry about being around people who are unvaxxed than being around those who are vaxxed. Both can get and spread the virus, so you're no more likely to get it from one than the other.

Please don't treat your loved ones and friends as if they're horrible people and make pariahs of them because of this stupid virus. You may lose them forever. I didn't see my grandchildren or get to hug them for months because the media had us terrorized over this thing. They're all vaccinated now, so I don't have to worry that will be hospitalized if they get sick, but I could still get the virus from them. I'm not going to let that stop me from seeing them, or any other loved one, vaxxinated or not.

As if there are only 2 choices, when it comes to our relationships with friends and family?

I talk on the phone regularly with my far away relatives and friends and we're also in touch over email, Zoom, Facebook and Instagram - lots of people do the same. Hubby talks to & DMs his kids and grandkids several times a week.

And it's been specified that fully vaxxed people ARE at increased risk from this Delta variant. It's not only about staying safe, but preventing spread. There are people who have conditions or medications that increase their risk of contracting a breakthrough infection. Why do some folks seem to be missing the reality of asymptomatic spread, and consideration for others?

Trick or treat is set for the 30th this year. Our township had it last year as usual, most people put the candy at the end of their driveway and asked you to take one piece. In fact it was nicer. Everyone was outside there homes socializing instead of handing candy out their door. Since the kids missed out on so much last year the neighborhood made it extra special.

This year they added a daytime activity. A trunk and treat, costume parade and games at the community park. Saturday is Halloween canvas painting at the community center. We will be taking our friends and family yearly trip to the pumpkin patch in two weeks.

"fully vaxxed (do you mean vaccinated? What a weird abbreviation) people ARE at increased risk from this Delta variant"

Uh no. That's patently false. Source, please?

I don't know about what's coming. What's here, where we have a relatively low infection/hospitalization rate and a good and improving vaccination rate, at a recent family funeral, those who didn't attend had other issues. The sevice was only outdoors at graveside (with shade canopy) and only close family and very close friends. All were vaccinated. All were masked (probably required) and a few people distanced. Most sat or stood together under the canopy. Most hugged. After, we gathered in the backyard, but it's a small house where gatherings are always in the backyard. Everyone unmasked. eating and drinking, but also ”at home” manners, even though it was extended family. Lots more hugging. All ages, but the youngest was 18. One cousin was hesitant to use his fingers to pick up food, using office manners, then I pointed out we were all touching the same tongs, which made him laugh, ruefully. Even if someone amongst us had the virus, it's unlikely that any of us was exposed to sufficient viral load to get a bad case even if there were breakthrough infections. It was normal-ish, but still sensitive to the state of the world.

Road traffic is back. It seems to have really picked up when the kids went back to school.

A friend's kid in a very-low infection rate area wants a party for her 18th birthday. It'll be in their backyard, with a select group of peers, not the mob of school and sports friends it might have been in the past. I don't think they're asking for proof of vaccination, but it’s pretty well known who did and didn't get it. Most of the teens here want vaccinations and have gotten them. These kids were used to gathering in heaps, like puppies. They've gotten pretty good at social distancing on social occasions, but it's not really possible in sports, and not much in school either.

Holidays? My usual mob scenes aren't happening. We didn't do anything for Sukkut. Thanksgiving is probably on. No local little kids for that group, which is only half a mob. Who knows what will happen in December.

At this point, with so many unvaxxed people throughout the world, I do

suspect that other variants will arise. Some perhaps less harmful, but just as easily, some may be more harmful. Just a matter of time. Whether current vaxxes will shield us from new variants, I hope so but IDK.

I don't know if we will ever return to the good old days, where we saw Santa Claus in movies/cartoons going from one house to another unmasked, gifts being brought to Jesus in the manger by strangers from afar, likewise unmasked, Charlie Brown and all the neighborhood kids together, and didn't give it a thought.

On the other hand, there are plenty of ways to show love and caring, and technology where we can see our families and talk to them, so I think whether a day is going to be a holiday for ourselves, for those we love, even for random strangers who can be the recipients of safely conveyed cheer and kindness, is up to our time, effort, and imaginations.

It's so hard to figure out, isn't it? Our family that would gather for Thanskgiving -- fully vaxxed, and one with booster already. However.... as someone noted above, we've also got a variety -- leukemia, parkinsons, upcoming surgery, one in cancer treatment, a cancer survivor....and some of the vaccinated kids are in school (our high school is sporting about 20 cases at the moment (out of about 1400 kids)... sigh.

We've been sending both fully vaccinated and unvaccinated to the ER the past couple weeks. It's bad here and in Tennessee. I know of at least one person whose surgery was postponed due to Covid patients taking up beds in Lexington.

Montana VA taking non-VA patients now because their civilian hospitals are overrun.

Like bpath, our family has changed a lot over the last several years what with kids going off to college, graduating and moving away, etc. This year T'Day will be in LA to accommodate a - briefly - returning college student, so I will be heading in that direction for the holiday. Another family also has a student briefly returning and not enought to time to travel far. One graduate has returned to the LA area, and another is leaving for a winter in Mexico. What had once been one of the big Clan Gathereings is now now somewhat diminished. I think Christmas will be the same. And, I think, as time marches on, those once-upon-a-time Gatherings will cease to be. That saddens me.

As to COVID: everyone is vaccinated and knows the protocol because they all have to go back to work on Monday and can't afford to get sick. I guess we are all willing to take a few measured chances within a given group.

I haven't heard anything about Halloween in our community this year, but I'm not planning on participating.... again.

I do wonder how all these COVID changes will ultimately change how we do things in the future future. Humans being humans - perhaps not at all.

Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly enough. Being vaxxed is not 100% protection from getting sick, or passing the virus to others. It reduces the likelihood and severity, but does not eliminate it entirely. The Delta variant creates a much larger viral load, which makes it much more contagious. And much depends on someone's underlying conditions. For example, a friend of ours is fully vaccinated, but he's a transplant recipient and takes immune suppressing drugs.

Out of curiosity, I looked up total transplants in the USA for last year - it's around 39K.

https://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/data/view-data-reports/national-data/#

The only 100% guarantee you won't catch or spread COVID is to 100% keep your distance from other people, I think.

As long as people keep spreading it, we can't return to normal - whatever that may be.

Got my booster almost 3 weeks ago. Still not willing to take a chance dining in a restaurant. We're not anywhere close to returning to normal.

Don't forget:

1. Remember seeing the packed packed packed jumble planes with shoulder -to-shoulder (more than 600 each plane) mostly not vaccinated, not tested, and not face masked refugees evacuated from Afghan ?

2. Remember seeing big packed crowds of 15,000 (now some say 30,000) un-vaccinated untested, mostly unmasked refugees from Haiti ? many of them have been allowed to enter the US.

3. And how many just walk across our open boarder?

And don't forget, 70 million here in the US for one reason or another, refuse to be vaccinated.

And many who have been vaccinated may need to get booster shot again, and again few months later.

And don't forget, the entire pandemic start with ONLY ONE infection!

Back to normal? This may be the normal.

dcarch

Of course, it's Afghans and Haitians who are to blame. And those who walk across the boarder.

Packed into jumble planes. 600 in other than an emergency military transport? I don't think commercial planes can carry so many.

As someone pointed out recently, no state, county or city has closed their borders. Where's the concern about that? This virus has been replicating and spreading quite well amongst people already here in the USA for well over a year now.

Elmer J Fudd, "---Packed into jumble planes. 600 in other than an emergency military transport? I don't think commercial planes can carry so many."

Check these out:, and also tell me how many face masks. We had military planes sending 6000 troops to there, and when they return, how many refugees can they carry?

https://www.google.com/search?q=military+phanes+with+afghan+refugees&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1136&bih=632&ei=P_VQYbOwAtScwbkPjPed0Ao&oq=military+phanes+with+afghan+refugees&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoFCAAQgAQ6CAgAEIAEELEDOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToGCAAQCBAeUOsIWPWDAWCiiQFoAHAAeACAATmIAeQNkgECMzaYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZw&sclient=img&ved=0ahUKEwjzy6SR2Z3zAhVUTjABHYx7B6oQ4dUDCAc&uact=5

dcarch

My favorite? Same people who hated all the brown skin people, and supported the idiot president who said they could not travel, are trying to act like the Afghans are so pitiful...

Why weren't they pitiful when they were being banned from traveling? They're pitiful now?

Halloween is an outdoor affair. I don't see a problem with children trick or treating. We now know more about viral transmission than we did before. Wrapped candy you given out isn't going to make anyone sick. If someone is overly concerned they could simply use tongs to hand out candy.

On the other hand I personally wouldn't be attending any indoor crowded parties filled with wall to wall strangers. I do indoor dining in restaurants but generally with maybe one other person who is in "my pod".

I play cards with a group of 6-8 but in a well ventilated room. As far as outdoor activities I don't give the virus a single thought. I have been around dozens and dozens of people of all ages and not one person has become ill. Basic common sense of not staying in prolonged close contact and basic hygiene works wonders, not just for Covid, We do work closely together or sit in the same indoor space once in a while but its for a relatively short time.

As for family, we meet up in small groups since around the end of May. We never did have large family gatherings before the pandemic so it's really not an issue. It was when all this was new last year and we didn't have enough information to go on to access risk so we erred on the side of more extreme caution, but that is hopefully behind us unless a new super strain comes along.

I see a lot of fear here on the internet but I really don't experience it in real life. The only people I see masked are doing so because of mandates or workplace rules, as I do when necessary or if they are from cultures that embraced masks long ago. Sometimes I come online and shake my head at all the anxiety and fear still abounding. It's simply not what I observe when I am about my daily comings and goings. The people I know are traveling, seeing family, and celebrating life. Cautiously but not hiding in a bunker.

I

"Check these out:, and also tell me how many face masks."

I asked, was this other than an emergency flight? It was a rhetorical question the answer is no. It was an emergency flight and as many were packed into the plane as it could carry and still take off.

Are you suggesting than any of these people account for even one case of disease of someone here in the US before they arrived? I hope not.

"We had military planes sending 6000 troops"

Nope. No plane can carry so many individuals at one time. Not one can carry even as many as 1000.

My holidays will remain the same as always. I will decorate. My Halloween display at work went up last night. I will hunker down and watch my favorite Halloween/thanksgiving/Christmas movies and shows. And that's it. That's the only constant from year to year. My own rituals. Family Get togethers do not happen every year. They did not last year for obvious reasons but it did not happen other years for other reasons too. If there is no family gathering then I will cook a festive meal for myself and SO. This year I am scheduled to be off Thanksgiving, but I have a feeling the person scheduled to work will call in and I will have to work it anyway because they are low down and dirty like that. They did it to me on July 4th even though they knew I had plans to cook for my sisters party. I ended up cooking all morning and having to work that night. Jerk. And I am scheduled to work Christmas Day. But my parents and siblings like to celebrate Christmas Day within their own households and any sort of family party would be after the actual holiday.

If there is a family meal for whatever holiday I am comfortable going because for one thing, I cook all the food and for another we have all been vaccinated and are otherwise healthy.

No trick or treaters at my house ever.

"fully vaxxed (do you mean vaccinated? What a weird abbreviation) people ARE at increased risk from this Delta variant"
Uh no. That's patently false. Source, please?

I think that what Elmer meant by that statement is that everyone, including fully vaxxed people are at greater risk due to the Delta variant being much more contagious than the original Covid. Not that vaccinated people are at higher risk than unvaxxed.

I think you've mixed up rob's comment with mine.

Wow. Someone confused us?!

We're often more alike than different, it's the expected sibling resemblance.

Oops, maybe I wasn't supposed to disclose that in public?.

Let's clarify.

The Delta variant of COVID-19 is far more contagious than the original variant. Now, my comment meant, even vaccinated people have become infected with the Delta variant, not just unmasked/unvaccinated people.

Everyone needs to avoid being infected with the current COVID-19 infection.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/safe-children-trick-treat-halloween-180650785.html

FYI

I think everyone wants normal holidays with family and friends. I think a lot of people will forge ahead and plan normal celebrations. Unfortunately, the US has 1/5 of the world's R.1 COVID Variant and so I don't think this bodes well for the holidays or normal life in general.

They will be normal for us--but we didn't restrict them during the worst of it. We will gather as always. Halloween will be like last year--no different than any other. Weddings and #1 DD's performance in community theatre will affect our gatherings more than COVID ever did. The young adults have other events demanding time too. We will keep our Thanksgiving at our home instead of my sons as it is more centrally located for DD.

"They will be normal for us--but we didn't restrict them during the worst of it"

Somehow I suspect everyone knew that without your saying anything.

We might visit our son in Berlin. Contingent upon whether my work partner will be fully healed from his back surgery. He had it August 27 and the recuperation has been slower than he thought it would be. We will both have our boosters by then, and they are both fully vaccinated. I haven't flown since the pandemic started but if we go I will be wearing an n95 and a face shield.

FWIW, rob333 was quoting and disagreeing with me. I tried to clarify after that .

Fully vaxxed people are more protected than non-vaxxed, of course, but yes, the Delta variant was shown to be many times more infectious - which contributed to more fully vaxxed people having 'breakthrough' cases.

P.S. I'm not the only person using the term 'vaxxed' here.

Sorry that I mixed up Elmer and Carolb.

Normal. We're all either vaxxed or have natural immunity from having had the virus.

Will be getting the flu shot and a booster in October ahead of a trip to AZ.

Dcarch was referring to the 6000 troops that the president sent to Afghanistan in mid August. In planeS. One military transport plane (Boeing C-17 Globemaster III) did evacuate 823 Afghai refugees on ONE flight. Thought to be a record # of people on a single flight. Initially reported as 600 people (adults). Later corrected to include children.

Besides covid, 16 cases of measles and 4 cases of mumps have been reported amongst the refugees in Wisconsin & Virginia. Measles is highly infectious. And is the reason why additional evacuation flights to the US have been halted.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends that clinicians be on alert for cases of measles that meet the case definition, as well as other infectious diseases, including mumps, leishmaniasis, and malaria, among evacuees (including both Afghan nationals and U.S. citizens) from Afghanistan.

https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00452.asp

If you were born before 1957, per the CDC:

If you do not have presumptive evidence of immunity against measles, mumps, and rubella, talk with your doctor about getting vaccinated. If you’re unsure whether you’ve been vaccinated, you should first try to find your vaccination records. If you do not have written documentation of MMR vaccine, you should get vaccinated. The MMR vaccine is safe, and there is no harm in getting another dose if you may already be immune to measles, mumps, or rubella.

If you received a measles vaccine in the 1960s, you may not need to be revaccinated. People who have documentation of receiving LIVE measles vaccine in the 1960s do not need to be revaccinated. People who were vaccinated prior to 1968 with either inactivated (killed) measles vaccine or measles vaccine of unknown type should be revaccinated with at least one dose of live attenuated measles vaccine. This recommendation is intended to protect those who may have received killed measles vaccine, which was available in 1963-1967 and was not effective.

I love the KT! Reading here today is just like being with family! (Or maybe like playing the Telephone game.)

Our Holidays have always been "normal." Kids went trick or treating last year, had family gatherings for Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Year's Eve. We all knew the Chinese virus did/still has a 0.02 percent death rate. Meh. I'm 71 and not scared.

I think you got off the bus at the wrong bus stop. We're all frozen with fear and scared here

Mr Biz, you need to talk to my brother except he cant talk to you. Depending on your dashboard our country has had from 680 to 700 Thousand deaths from this innocuous disease. That is since March 23 of 2020 when we had 550 deaths nationally.

"We all knew the Chinese virus did/still has a 0.02 percent death rate. Meh."

Really? The current case fatality rate in the US is 1.6 %.  That's 10 times the case fatality rate for the flu.   People who aren't worried about that don't understand the issue.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

"We all knew the Chinese virus did/still has a 0.02 percent death rate. Meh."

You can leave me out of your we.

FYI: i DID NOT mean to 'like' woodrose's comment:

If you are vaxxed you have no more to worry about being around people who are unvaxxed than being around those who are vaxxed. Both can get and spread the virus, so you're no more likely to get it from one than the other.

i do not agree with this at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you're shown as a "like", you can remove it by clicking a second time on the thumbs up symbol.

I wish it was over, but it's not.

I've lost an uncle and my mom's close friend, pre-vax. My mom's BFF went to her family Christmas and the oposite MIL died after exposure from the holiday. No celebration this year, they learned the hard way.

My aunt died after vaccine, no health concerns, just age. Mom had it last month, she has asthma and takes Nucala. She openly admits without the vaccine, she would have died. She spent 2 days in er/ hospital.

Tired of hearing it's not real. It's real to me.

I am not afraid, just considerate. I teach, taught last year face to face and virtual to the tune of 80 hours a week- everyday, all year long- never closed, for little pay, VA- one of the richest states that pay teachers the worst.

We're currently talking about only vaccinated can come to gathering with a negative test.

Not afraid- considerate. What has happened to human decency?

elmer, i tried that several times, and its not working....??

Re: Woodrose's comment. Am I wrong in thinking that all of us, vaccinated or not, can harbor Covid-19 and be shedding the virus without symptoms? Vaccinated people are increasingly suffering 'breakthrough' disease -- one of the reasons boosters are being promoted. Seems to me the only safe thing to do is to continue to mask and distance in public, as well as with people in your 'pod' who regularly interact with the public. This devil Covid-19 is busy improving its ability to infect, now that we've failed to crush it with at least 80% vaccinated.

Of course, the unvaccinated will be more likely to suffer more and even die if they become infected, but 'mild Covid-19' is still *nasty*.

@ chisue - it's not just a matter of opinion. I understand there is indeed documentation of asymptomatic spread. From children too, since many have mild or no symptoms.

And like a number of other infectious diseases, one can spread it before one's symptoms appear.